DOUBLE LOOP KNOT: JonBenet was posed

[BlueCrab]

As some of you know, I believe this case was "solved" by the grand jury in 1999 and the results have been legally covered up ever since by the court and other Boulder authorities because it involved very young children.

However, there's strong evidence that an older male who is legally culpable was also involved in the killing. If so, this person has been literally getting away with murder.

In the past on this forum we have uncovered a number of curious events that have not been properly investigated, foremost of which has been the Asian Pacific American Coalition (APAC), a small (29 members) politically pro-active group of liberals at nearby Colorado University which closed shop just weeks after the murder of JonBenet. Among APAC's stated goals was a desire to correct perceived injustices to Asian-American women in the U.S.

There was a direct link between an APAC member and the Ramsey and Stine families. This link appears to have been purposely covered up by Boulder government officials, the media, and certain others. For instance, his name was obviously purged from Larry Schiller's PMPT. Despite a daily involvement with the Ramseys and the Stines and their children his name was never mentioned in PMPT, even though the book's name index had about 500 names listed. The absence of his name, plus Schiller's confession that he has written only about 10 percent of what he really knows about this case, raises a red flag in regard to possible censorship.

IMO, all 29 students who were members of APAC in 1996 should be thoroughly investigated. One or more of them may be improperly getting away with murder by benefitting from the same legal shield of secrecy being properly enjoyed by the children.

BlueCrab

 

[Nehemiah]

IMO, all 29 students who were members of APAC in 1996 should be thoroughly investigated. One or more of them may be improperly getting away with murder by benefitting from the same legal shield of secrecy being properly enjoyed by the children.BlueCrab

Was any member of this organization called to testify before the GJ, or do you know?

 

[BlueCrab]

Was any member of this organization called to testify before the GJ, or do you know?

Nehemiah,

I don't know if NI or any other member was called or not. The names of grand jury witnesses are not disclosed. I doubt if he was, because during the Atlanta police interviews in 2000 the interrogators didn't even know of his existence. Ever since the murder, APAC and its members have been successfully flying under the radar.

BlueCrab

 

[Firstpage]

BlueCrab, if there was this 5th person in the house, why would the Ramseys cover up for them if they were not a family member. If John had found JonBenet posed as you describe surely they would have been so shocked that they would have wanted this person prosercuted, instead of trying to cover it up?

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab, if there was this 5th person in the house, why would the Ramseys cover up for them if they were not a family member. If John had found JonBenet posed as you describe surely they would have been so shocked that they would have wanted this person prosercuted, instead of trying to cover it up?

Firstpage,

Good question Firstpage, because the answer to your question virtually guarantees the involvement of at least one Ramsey family member in the crime. If the name of the fifth person is revealed, then one or more Ramsey family members get arrested also and they all go down.

The Ramsey lies and refusals to cooperate with police investigators is strong proof they are hiding something big. And that something almost has to be the name of the fifth person in the house that night and the name of the Ramsey who let him in the house.

BlueCrab

 

[sissi]

I'm going to repeat the question. Was there really black tape on the legs?

John Ramsey said this in an interview with the police, no one disputed the comment, so IMO YES there was black/white "odd" tape on her legs.

No one saw this in the autopsy? Because.....

lig·a·ture (lg-chr, -chr)
n.
1. The act of tying or binding.
2.
a. A cord, wire, or bandage used for tying or binding

 

[BlueCrab]

John Ramsey said this in an interview with the police, no one disputed the comment, so IMO YES there was black/white "odd" tape on her legs.

No one saw this in the autopsy? Because.....

lig·a·ture (lg-chr, -chr)
n.
1. The act of tying or binding.
2.
a. A cord, wire, or bandage used for tying or binding

sissi,

So what you are saying is that a piece of black/white tape could be consisered a ligature. But there is no crime scene photo of such a tape and no such tape is listed as being removed from the house as evidence.

If there was tape on JonBenet's legs it would, of course, add to the evidence that already shows that JonBenet was in rope bondage (the neck ligature and the wrist ligature, and probably the ankle ligature).

BlueCrab

 

[sissi]

sissi,

So what you are saying is that a piece of black/white tape could be consisered a ligature. But there is no crime scene photo of such a tape and no such tape is listed as being removed from the house as evidence.

If there was tape on JonBenet's legs it would, of course, add to the evidence that already shows that JonBenet was in rope bondage (the neck ligature and the wrist ligature, and probably the ankle ligature).

BlueCrab

I don't know, I only know that it was not disputed during that interview .

 

[IrishMist]

I noticed that, too. But I chalked it up to the stenographer's mistake. There were alot of errors and misspellings throughout the whole thing. I did go back and re-read that part a couple of times, and read with keen interest after that, but the tape on the legs was never repeated. They did talk about tape on the lips after that.

 

[aussiesheila]

aussiesheila,

The coroner in his autopsy report didn't say anything about the double loop knot being on the wrists. He simply said the single wrist knot had a 15.5 inch tail that ended with a double loop knot.

Your theory about there originally having been four loops, and all of them just to tie JonBenet's wrists together, seems unnecessary.

BlueCrab

BlueCrab,

Yes I must agree, it is a little strange that the coroner didn't describe the loop(s) knot(s) on the right wrist before he removed it. Still we all slip up sometimes, and he did at least take photos of both sides of the wrist before he removed the ligature.

With respect to the 'fourth' loop if there really wasn't one I don't mind. I am just trying to establish whether there was one or not and it looks to me as though there was. But I am happy to be convinced otherwise. I just want to know the TRUTH, as we all do I'm sure.

I have always wondered and still am about how the arms were tied. When Capps posted those 'garotte 4 and 5' photos it got me thinking again. So please BlueCrab, go to the Sundance site and look at the two photos of the cord still in place on the right wrist. You probably know a lot more about knots than I do.

The photo showing the underside of the wrist shows the loop around the wrist with a knot and what appears to be the 5.5 inch length with the frayed end, and going underneath the wrist (in the photo) what must be the 15.5 inch length with the double loop knot at the end which I am assuming was taken off the left wrist by John.

The other photo showing the upper side of the wrist shows a second knot and what appears to be a loop coming from it. I am assuming this WAS another loop, making four loops in all. After these photos were taken I am assuming Meyer undid this ‘fourth’ loop completely so that what came off the right wrist was one large loop as opposed to the two smaller loops from the left wrist.

If tis is what happened it meant that when the photo was taken of the wrist ligature after it had been removed from the body it showed up as one large loop separated from the two smaller loops by a 15.5 inch length of cord.

 

[Nehemiah]

There was also wire near the body. Not to muddy the waters, here, but the wire could go along with bondage or hanging...or could have just been in the wine cellar innocently.

 

[BlueCrab]

There was also wire near the body. Not to muddy the waters, here, but the wire could go along with bondage or hanging...or could have just been in the wine cellar innocently.

Thank you Nehemiah,

The wire could be significant. The posing theory is new to us, so we don't know what other evidence besides the double loop knot may support the theory.

One thing is certain; if JonBenet was tortured and obscenely posed, the profile of the killer and his motive certainly changes for many of us.

BlueCrab

 

[Nehemiah]

Tape on the legs?

John's '97 interview:

TT: When you saw the white blanket, was JonBenet completely covered up? How was she laying there, cause I wasn’t there that day.
JR: She was laying on the blanket, and the blanket was kind of folded around her legs. And her arms were tied behind her head, and there was some pieces of black tape (inaudible) on her legs, and her head was cocked to the side.

Black and white tape?

John's '98 interview:

12 LOU SMIT: And the duct tape, do you remember
13 if it was adhered all the way to her mouth?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. It wasn't really duct
15 tape, it was -- well I'm sure you've seen it. But
16 it was like black. It wasn't electrical tape. It
17 was kind of white, black, unusual tape, I thought.

I was reading a depo earlier (didn't bookmark it or save it but maybe I can go back and find it) where John said that the tape was black and WIDE. I think in this depo above that must have been what he actually said, instead of white.

 

[sissi]

There was also wire near the body. Not to muddy the waters, here, but the wire could go along with bondage or hanging...or could have just been in the wine cellar innocently.

It could well be that Jonbenet was in "bondage" in the same way as the barbie doll found on the lawn.

The secret visit from Santa is interesting. We believe she was "told", meaning that it could only be "her" santa, as she would have likely not accepted a substitute. However in the interview with Patsy, Trujillo asked a question that I had never noticed .

TT: JonBenet got a letter from the secret Santa. Do you know who the secret Santa was?

PR: Ah, secret Santa. Where did she get the letter?

 

[IrishMist]

From the June 98 Interview (A big thank you to A Candy Rose!)


7 (INAUDIBLE) what looks like a big piece of duct
8 tape. That doesn't look like that tape I took off

9 JonBenet's mouth.

10 LOU SMIT: Okay. And why do you say that?

11 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, because as I recall,

12 it was black. It was like a little larger than

13 electrical tape in width. And it struck me, and as

14 I thought about it later, as the kind of tape you

15 might use in sailing to wrap around the stanchion

16 or something.

17 LOU SMIT: The black tape?

18 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.

19 LOU SMIT: Have you used that type of

20 tape on (INAUDIBLE)?

21 JOHN RAMSEY: No, I didn't recognize it.

22 But in this picture, it looks like a piece of duct

23 tape. A big piece of duct tape. And that's not

24 what I remember.

25 LOU SMIT: Okay. That's on photograph number --

0291

1 JOHN RAMSEY: 149. Cause it was like stuck

2 to the blanket almost in this picture.

3 LOU SMIT: What are you thinking?

4 JOHN RAMSEY: It's just hard to look at these,

5 that's all. Basically JonBenet was right here.

6 LOU SMIT: If you want to get off this,

7 we can?

8 JOHN RAMSEY: No, that's okay. Sorry.

9 LOU SMIT: You touched on something, you know,

10 and I was going to ask you about that tape later

11 on and the cord. But you mentioned that the tape

12 that you took off JonBenet, we're trying to

13 determine if in fact you could have been in

14 contact with that type of tape. And you mentioned

15 something about that's the type you seen on a

16 stanchion.

17 JOHN RAMSEY: Well it's just it wasn't

18 a tape that looked familiar to me, or it looked

19 like it wasn't torn, it was cut perfectly,

20 literally, that it fit her mouth. It was black, it

21 wider than electrical tape, but not as wide as

22 duct tape. I mean I know what duct tape is; it

23 wasn't duct tape.

24 Just thinking about it later, where do you get

25 this kind of tape? It's a little wider, and I've

0292

1 seen it in white before. It's kind of a utility

2 tape that you can use on a sailboat in boating.

3 LOU SMIT: Okay.

4 JOHN RAMSEY: And we had some, and

5 there's white. Somebody had (INAUDIBILE) that they

6 wrapped around rough edges, the stanchion, so that

7 the sail didn't catch it and tear. It was just

8 kind of a wider utility tape. I don't remember if

9 we had any black or not. But certainly white.

10 LOU SMIT: And this would have been where?

11 JOHN RAMSEY: Up at Michigan.

12 LOU SMIT: Michigan, okay.

13 JOHN RAMSEY: It wasn't a big piece of

14 duct tape like that.


*Bold emphasis mine*

 

[IrishMist]

I may not know where all the items have gone missing ... but I have a hunch that the perp got all he needed,right from Patsy's paint tote.

paint brush

tape - refered to as "painters tape",that is sometimes used by artist.

nylon cord - used to hang pictures.

small knife - used to cut the tape and cord.

Patsy wasn't the neatest person,as she admitted herself.I think all the items above were her little artist things,just thrown nilly willy in her tote.

I am not suggesting that Patsy was involved in JB's murder,just that her painting tote was where the perp may have found what he needed.

Capps, I have to agree with you. And if it wasn't all in the tote, I think it would all be easily found somewhere in all that junk in the basement.
To me, this isn't solid IDI or RDI- as with so many things in this case, it could go either way...

 

[sissi]

Oh though....how interesting that the tape shown on the blanket in a crimescene photo did NOT match what John Ramsey saw on her mouth!?

 

[BlueCrab]

Oh though....how interesting that the tape shown on the blanket in a crimescene photo did NOT match what John Ramsey saw on her mouth!?

sissi,

The black duct tape that John says he removed from JonBenet's mouth, and the black duct tape on the white blanket in the photo, to me look like they are probably the same. IMO there was no other tape.

You gotta remember that the Ramseys always try to confuse the evidence as much as they can. Whether it's a time-line, or a Santa Bear, or a piece of duct tape, they'll find a way to hopelessly obfuscate it, hoping investigators will walk away scratching their heads.

BlueCrab

 

[sissi]

I will go "huntin' ", but if I remember the tape on the blanket looked like normal silver backed duct tape IMO.

edit..back from the "hunt"

http://www.acandyrose.com/149blanket.jpg

edit again to mention..this is not a small perfectly cut piece of black tape used to put on the child's mouth..is it?

 

[capps]

After reading John trying to describe the tape he found on JonBenet,I searched around and found the following.

The tape used on sail boats is called Rigging Tape.It usually came in white,but I finally found a site that sold it in black.

What was really interesting,was with all the many sites I went to,most of them said the following were staples to have on your sailboat:

Rigging Tape - which I mentioned above,and John believes this is the type of tape he found on JB.

Rigging Floss - nylon/dacron cord,which comes in various thickness,some come waxed,like dental floss,but not all prefer waxed.

Rigging Wire - copper wire.

Rigging Knife - comes in various shapes and sizes. Most prefer mid-size pocket knives.

I was going to link some pictures,but was unable to,because I went to too many different sites.