Ebola outbreak - general thread #5

[Elley Mae]

After thinking about the dialysis of a patient with ebola I sure do hope that machine is part of what they are trying to send to the louisiana landfill. My hubby was on dialysis for a year before transplant and I can not imagine them using that machine again on anyone else. jmo idk

 

[SCHMAE]

A friend put up a link on FB about an article called '' cdc has to admit ebola is airborne'. Said friend had a friend who said 'get your news from a reliable source' and put up a SNOPES article saying " false ebola is not airborne. But in the initial article my friend put up , it linked the CDC page discussing transmission .

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/qas.html

'' Although coughing and sneezing are not common symptoms of Ebola, if a symptomatic patient with Ebola coughs or sneezes on someone, and saliva or mucus come into contact with that person’s eyes, nose or mouth, these fluids may transmit the disease.

So I thought a quick google on what is airborne might help ME, at least and I'm sharing with you .

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=airborne transmission ''Noun

S: (n) airborne transmission (a transmission mechanism in the which the infectious agent is spread as an aerosol and usually enters a person through the respiratory tract)'''

So an airborne virus is one that can enter through the respiratory tract , spread by aerosol ( cough/ sneeze) But ebola, which can be spread by inhaling/ ingesting someone's cough or sneeze is not airborne? So this is a little word game, right?

Also I found this very interesting, excuse the redundancy.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/spread.htm FLU can be spread ''up to about 6 feet away// droplets made when people with flu cough, sneeze or talk. // droplets made when people with flu cough, sneeze or talk. Less often, a person might also get flu by touching a surface or object that has flu virus on it
http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/qas.html EBOLA can be spread ''direct contact with body fluids //Ebola coughs or sneezes on someone//Ebola on dried on surfaces such as doorknobs and countertops can survive for several hours; however,''.

Also previously was said to stay further than 3 feet away from an ebola patient and is saying within 6 feet you can catch the FLU. Says surfaces of counters and doorknobs can have the live virus on it for several hours but does not LIST this as a way it can be transmitted but on the FLU transmission page it does. Its' a very sloppy page,t he ebola one for CDC. It seems to be lacking a lot of common sense information that I did find on the common cold and flu pages on the CDC. Maybe that is because its' been an African virus the CDC did not think would be coming here or did they update the page since it got to the US?
So from what I gather above from the 2 pages Flu vs. Ebola page from CDC. Both viruses can be spread essentially the same way but they refuse to class Ebola as airborne, right? Please if I'm reading it or understanding it incorrectly, someone show me TIA

 

[SCHMAE]

After thinking about the dialysis of a patient with ebola I sure do hope that machine is part of what they are trying to send to the louisiana landfill. My hubby was on dialysis for a year before transplant and I can not imagine them using that machine again on anyone else. jmo idk

Or maybe for very expensive machines like that , they could put them in ' quarantine' in a safe storage facility for say 12 months. But I think even after 12 months, I would not be sure I wanted to use it.

 

[Elley Mae]

Here's a video I came across showing how to doff Level C PPE. The man wipes himself down with a bleach wipe before he starts to remove his gear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls69Tib1PjU

Personally, I think more layers is the way to go, but there has to be rigorous training as well. The nurses and doctors at Emory had that training and were well prepared. I bet they wore multiple layers. None of their healthcare workers became infected.

The difference that I see is that at emory they knew the ebola patient was coming, at presbyterian they cared for him for 2 days without protection before the test results came back and then put on full protection. jmo idk

 

[Yoda]

This is unfortunate. Student is from a country that has no cases of ebola.

Czech police and hazmat suit-wearing doctors have seized a traveler from Ghana at Prague’s main railway station. The man, suspected of suffering from the Ebola virus, was wrapped in black plastic by the authorities and taken away.
“We took emergency measures after receiving a report that there was a man from Ghana at the station possibly carrying Ebola,” Prague police spokesperson Andrea Zoulová said.

He had a cold.



http://rt.com/news/195452-ebola-scare-prague-railway/

 

[Sigh Sister]

The difference that I see is that at emory they knew the ebola patient was coming, at presbyterian they cared for him for 2 days without protection before the test results came back and then put on full protection. jmo idk

But the reports out there state this nurse cared for him while in PPE. IDK either. Maybe later reports will say she did have contact with him without PPE on.

 

[SCHMAE]

This video was on Channel 8, wfaa ( abc affiliate) in DFW last night. Two things struck me !

http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/heal...atient-concerned-as-cleaning-begins/17164795/

Man in yellow hazmat suit dragging the giant barrel around to removed contaminated objects from the apartment then walks barrel onto a truck , presumably for removal. Inside the bed of the 'clean up crew' truck stands a man with NO protective gear on whatsoever . He's reading or something in the back of the truck. Am I paranoid or is that strange? If a guy in hazmat just walks out from the apartment, you can assume his suit is covered in potential germs, right? Same with the barrel, right? It seemed like a lot of careful great removal until he just walks it on to a truck that does not seem at all outfitted for protection and near a man who is also not.
Secondly, Dallas health guy Thompson is in this video saying he's going door to door to hand out info. I said previously I have a close friend on the very next block, so I'd assume Thompson may have go there to deliver this info. Thompson, do not forget, was inside the contaminated apartment of Duncan's with no protection, same as the deputy who went to the ER the other day. Deputy was in just as much contact as Thompson but Thompson still is walking around town, no door to door , and doing interviews and never once have I seen him wear a glove. Stop the insanity -- Susan Powter !

 

[Isabelle]

Has the possibility of inferior PPE been considered? I don't think it has. Holes in gloves, defective respirator masks, gowns. You won't hear about this because the goons in charge would never see that as a possibility just like they would not believe mechanical medical equipment can malfunction.

 

[Elley Mae]

Some nurses turning up at hospitals in Liberia

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-10-13-07-29-33

Some nurses turned up for work at hospitals in Liberia on Monday despite calls for a strike to demand better hazard pay amid an Ebola epidemic.

..................................

— On Sept. 25, Duncan came to the ER complaining of a headache and abdominal pain. At one point, he registered a fever of 103 and told the hospital he had been in West Africa. He was sent home with a prescription for antibiotics.

— His condition worsened dramatically, and on Sept. 28, he returned to the hospital in an ambulance shortly after 10 a.m.

— Doctors admitted him and put him in isolation. By evening, he was projectile vomiting, having explosive diarrhea and running a temperature of 103.1 degrees.

— On Sept. 29, as his condition worsened, Duncan asked the nurse to put him in a diaper.

— On Sept. 30, tests results confirmed Duncan had Ebola. Only then did staff treating Duncan trade their gowns and scrubs for hazmat suits, and the room was cleaned with bleach.

— On Oct. 8, Duncan died.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ebola-positive-20141012-story.html#navtype=outfit

bbm

Quoting my post to show health care treated Duncan for 2 days before donning proper attire,(hazmat suits).

This is where I think (jmo)that she and others were vulnerable.

 

[Isabelle]

Quoting my post to show health care treated Duncan for 2 days before donning proper attire,(hazmat suits).

This is where I think (jmo)that she and others were vulnerable.

Want to know if that level of PPE was available when Duncan was admitted?

 

[hockeymom]

It seems to me nobody is leading a nationwide effort to train all medical personal in proper procedure for this particular highly contagious virus. We shouldn't be waiting until this is full blown. These peoe should be trained yesterday!! Who's in charge?!!! Is it the CDC guy? We need some leadership here!!

 

[faw720]

I think we need to keep our eyes & ears open for things we have not previously heard. I was just watching CNN & they were interviewing the doctor who is head of the infectious diseases section of Vanderbilt University. He said he had heard an unofficial report that one of the Ebola patients treated here in the US did receive treatment that involved intubation & dialysis & survived. If I am able to eventually find a link, I will post.

 

[SCHMAE]

This is interesting. Sorry if it's been posted.

http://www.khou.com/story/news/loca...k-ebola-waste-disposal-in-louisiana/17180885/

'''Louisiana attorney general Buddy Caldwell is filing a temporary restraining order to keep incinerated Ebola waste in Texas.

Caldwell plans to block the disposal of potentially contaminated items from Thomas Duncan's apartment at a landfill in Louisiana, citing "too many unknowns" about the disease in a press release.''''

 

[Sigh Sister]

Quoting my post to show health care treated Duncan for 2 days before donning proper attire,(hazmat suits).

This is where I think (jmo)that she and others were vulnerable.

I will be surprised if more cases at that hospital aren't announced soon.

 

[Sigh Sister]

I think we need to keep our eyes & ears open for things we have not previously heard. I was just watching CNN & they were interviewing the doctor who is head of the infectious diseases section of Vanderbilt University. He said he had heard an unofficial report that one of the Ebola patients treated here in the US did receive treatment that involved intubation & dialysis & survived. If I am able to eventually find a link, I will post.

I heard that too.

 

[1&2&3]

I think we need to keep our eyes & ears open for things we have not previously heard. I was just watching CNN & they were interviewing the doctor who is head of the infectious diseases section of Vanderbilt University. He said he had heard an unofficial report that one of the Ebola patients treated here in the US did receive treatment that involved intubation & dialysis & survived. If I am able to eventually find a link, I will post.

BBM - if this is true, this person was in one of the special isolation units. Extra precaution was observed and I will bet the nurse did not have a filmsy PPE on. JMO

 

[SweetT]

I think if the ebola nurse wants privacy then she deserves it..as long as those she has been around get to be warned etc. I did find her information and sent the picture to my daughter as she had been in contact with an asian nurse from presby Thursday night. I wanted to make sure it was not the same person, or if it is she can self quarantine.

and it was NOT her..Thank goodness.

 

[Isabelle]

From my experience, non sterile boxed gloves are not always intact. Hoping powdered gloves are not used because the powder does aerosolize and particles can enter eye, nose and mouth. Every time a gloved or non gloved hand enters a glove box the box and remaining gloves are further contaminated. Would be interested in knowing exact equipment being used in hospitals.

 

[popsicle]

It's most likely part of a post I wrote in the closed thread #4 that said once Duncan had entered the hemorrhagic phase of Ebola, hemodialysis and mechanical ventilation were last- gasp measures.
I stand behind my post and my words, if this is the post you are referring to. He was actively dying of an infectious process called the Ebola virus.
When someone has successfully restored normal GFR in the hemorrhagic stage of Ebola, I hope they are published in JAMA, NE Journal Of Medicine, etc. and so forth.
I don't think there is a documented case of hemodialysis or intubation saving an Ebola- infected person's life when it was initiated as late as Mr. Duncan's was.
He was intubated and started on hemodialysis on Oct. 7 as " last ditch" efforts. He was pronounced deceased on the AM of Oct. 8. My sources are CBS- Dallas, Dallas Morning News,WFAA.com and every other local DFW news outlet, and national news outlet as far as the U.K. Daily Mail. Timelines are available for his treatment and deterioration. The treatments didn't harm him, but they were too late to help him.

This is my last comment for a while, as things are being taken out of context now.

I just want to put some facts into this. Mr Duncan was intubated just after midnight on Oct 4. A Dr's note on Oct 3 states his kidney function is "much worse". On Oct. 6 his dialysis was increased.

http://nypost.com/2014/10/11/the-agonizing-last-days-of-the-first-us-ebola-patient/

 

[Redux]

— On Sept. 30, tests results confirmed Duncan had Ebola. Only then did staff treating Duncan trade their gowns and scrubs for hazmat suits, and the room was cleaned with bleach.

Snipped by me.

:jawdrop:

I've kept up with reading the thread and articles, but I don't recall hearing this before (though I easily could have skimmed over it previously).

I'm absolutely flabberghasted. Prayers for all those people that could have been exposed during that timeframe.