Eerie Similarity?

WolfmarsGirl said:
I would so much rather see good deeds done by good people who don't listen to God.


This Godly discussion reminds me of the day I was golfing with a religious friend of mine. I'm not religious. Every time I missed a close putt I'd blurt out "Dammit, I missed again". My friend reminded me that if I continued with that kind of language that God would strike me down.

After I missed my next putt I shouted "Dammit, I missed again". The skies immediately darkened and a bolt of lightening thundered from the clouds and struck the green where we were standing. When the smoke cleared my religious friend was nothing but a pile of smoldering ashes.

Then a mysterious holy voice came down from out of the clouds, and it said, "DAMMIT, I MISSED AGAIN".

JMO
 
BlueCrab said:
This Godly discussion reminds me of the day I was golfing with a religious friend of mine. I'm not religious. Every time I missed a close putt I'd blurt out "Dammit, I missed again". My friend reminded me that if I continued with that kind of language that God would strike me down.

After I missed my next putt I shouted "Dammit, I missed again". The skies immediately darkened and a bolt of lightening thundered from the clouds and struck the green where we were standing. When the smoke cleared my religious friend was nothing but a pile of smoldering ashes.

Then a mysterious holy voice came down from out of the clouds, and it said, "DAMMIT, I MISSED AGAIN".

JMO


Oh, you are TOO funny, BC!!! :laugh:

You had me going there with that story...I thought for sure you would tell us how you found God, lol!

I have to pass this one on to hubby...He is a non-religious golfer too!! LOL! :dance:
 
Good one BC!

Now for the poor taste joke:

A priest, a Reverend and a Rabbi are on a talk show. The host asked how the clergy share their own personal money with God because they are always asking the flock for theirs.

The Priest replied that he throws all his money in the air and whatever money lands on his large dining table, he donates to God

The Reverend replied that he was even more generous. He said he throws all his money in the air and whatever lands on the carpet rather than the furniture belongs to God.

The Rabbi replied that he is the most generous of all because he does not "designate" what God can have. He stated that he throws all his money up in the air and WHATEVER GOD WANTS, HE CAN TAKE!
 
WolfmarsGirl said:
Tipper, I have often wondered about John's involvement in the cover-up. Frankly, I don't think he was involved in any way in the crime or the staging.

But, still I wonder...

We have always assumed (at least I have) that Patsy accidentally killed JBR. What if that is not the case?

What if Patsy, like Yates or Laney, intentionally killed JBR and was heading for Burke's room next???

What a perfect night to send the kids to God.

What if John discovered the whole mess before Patsy could complete the job? She didn't get to Burke because, maybe, John stepped in???

Maybe, if allowed to carry out her entire mission, as completely as Yates and Laney, Patsy would have called 911 - just like the other women.

Maybe John, being overly-concerned about how his family would look to the rest of the world and about how the Ramsey name would forever be tarnished by his psychotic wife's delusional killing spree, convinced Patsy to cover up what she had done instead of calling the police and confessing!

Maybe that is why nothing makes sense in this crime! Maybe it should have unfolded like the Laney case, but John wouldn't let it.

So, we see evidence that is not evidence, odd behavior by both Ramseys, attorneys lining the halls, refusal to cooperate with LE...

Maybe Patsy has always wanted to 'crack,' so to speak, but John won't let her...Maybe he saw signs in Patsy prior to the murder, but ignored them.

Is it possible?

We can't say this type of behavior is not possible...Look at the case that we just examined. This type of crime is happening far too often lately and it is not impossible to think Patsy might have become one of these too-common perps.

There are two truths that make the Ramsey case look different from the Laney case:

1. Patsy did not call 911 and confess.
2. The death of JBR was disguised as a kidnapping-gone-wrong.

Couldn't Laney also stage a kidnapping instead of a confession??? Sure, all she would have to do would be to drag the boys' bodies out into the woods and write the note.

Why didn't she?

Because she never intended to hide her crime...

Maybe Patsy didn't either.

What if Laney's husband woke up immediately after the slayings. Could he have convinced Laney not to confess? Can you imagine that scenario? The Laneys would have been up all night trying to cover up what Deanna did. We would end up with a Ramsey crime scene all over again.
I'd never say something isn't "possible." But I've never really seen Patsy as a religious nutcase. Probably because I've lived in the south and her level of religiosity fits in there.

My difficulty with your scenario is; if it had unfolded the way you suggest I think both Ramseys would have slunk off into the suset and continued to keep a low profile. After the first year it would have become clear that their old life was never going to return and I think John would have viewed anything like a lawsuit, a book, a public appearance by either of them as a huge trap waiting to be sprung. Particularly since Patsy had already demonstrated the capacity of being delusional and having a psychotic break from reality. The ramifications of her having a relapse while on Larry King or some such public outing would be too great. John would have stuck her in the attic and just announced that she never got over the murder of JonBenet.

Also, I don't recall reading the the Ramseys did things to the extreme of nightly Bible studies and daily prayer. So I think they were not as far gone as this woman appears to have been. I wonder if this woman smokes or drinks? I suspect not.

But again, anything is possible.
 
All the images in myths refer to psychological realities, both conscious and unconscious. The deeper one goes internally the more there is common ground with nature proper. I do not believe in super natural beings, only natural ones. I believe in God, I fear God as I have experienced the autonomous nature of the archetypes of the unconscious. Belief in an outer God is tantamount to creating one's own God for one's own purposes. If one deems one's self in their self created Light they may leave theirself open to a blind side attack from their own darkness, i.e. "the intruder" within.

One of the early suggestions for a national flag had the image of a serpent and the phrase "Don't tread on me". I say that is a more proper God image than the one Michelangelo painted on the Sistine Chapel ceiling.
 
I completely agree with you Brothermoon...Patsy has no sense of self. Her loved ones are objects to her and when they reject her or when she no longer has use for these "objects"...she kills them off figuratively or in JonBenet's case literally. A typical Borderline case...which in Patsy's case caused temporary psychosis Christmas night.

IMO
 
tipper said:
...My difficulty with your scenario is; if it had unfolded the way you suggest I think both Ramseys would have slunk off into the suset and continued to keep a low profile...

No, I don't think so. Patsy is a good actress, remember? Plus, if John had 'fixed' this, he must have been overcome by a growing sense of triumph (or, 'Victory,' if you will) over the LE, Patsy's psychosis and even God.

tipper said:
...After the first year it would have become clear that their old life was never going to return and I think John would have viewed anything like a lawsuit, a book, a public appearance by either of them as a huge trap waiting to be sprung. Particularly since Patsy had already demonstrated the capacity of being delusional and having a psychotic break from reality. The ramifications of her having a relapse while on Larry King or some such public outing would be too great. John would have stuck her in the attic and just announced that she never got over the murder of JonBenet...


You also have to consider the fact that Patsy was immediately spoon-fed drugs after JB's death. She was probably given the exact anti-depressants that she should have been on previously and that would probably have prevented JB's death in the first place.

As time rolled on, Patsy became more 'normal.' (Truthfully, she always seemed kind of 'funny' to me, but that is beside the point...)

I think John is just arrogant enough to think she was better and that he out-witted the justice system. He probably felt that it wasn't really Patsy's fault. He knew she had a break with reality. Now, thanks to John and to medication, her break was fixed. Also, thanks to John, she had a second chance.

If John also knew, or suspected, that Patsy's healthy days were numbered, then why not give the cover-up a shot?? She would be gone soon anyway. What would be the harm?

I think John running for office has something to do with Patsy's final days. I think he might let her quietly pass and then some day use his position in public office to tell the world the truth.

tipper said:
...Also, I don't recall reading the the Ramseys did things to the extreme of nightly Bible studies and daily prayer. So I think they were not as far gone as this woman appears to have been. I wonder if this woman smokes or drinks? I suspect not.

But again, anything is possible.

Sure, anything is possible. I think Patsy was a lot more 'gone' than we know, as far as the religious thing goes. Remember how she fell across JBR's body telling God to bring the child back to life??? Pretty far gone, if you ask me.

I think this scenario explains a lot...

It might even explain why Burke might have been awake: Maybe Patsy was lurking over his bed when John caught her (Laney was caught by her husband in their infant's room, hanging over his crib. She gave him a line about changing his diaper.) Maybe John yelled at him to go back to sleep...Maybe the child tried to sleep, but tossed and turned all night scared to death of his dad's sudden flash of anger against him and his mom...When he heard his parents on the phone and daylight was breaking, he summoned the courage to walk out of his room and confront his parents with, "Please, what did you find??" "What did I do??"

"Please, what did you find?" Meaning: "Dad, why are you yelling at mom about what you found??? What is 'it' that you found that would make you so mad at mom?"

Or, if the screaming Burke heard was misinterpreted by the boy, then his natural next thought would be, "...What did I do??" Meaning: "If you are not really mad at mom, then you must be mad at me...What did I do?"

I still think Burke will some day tell everything he knows.

This scenario can also explain the fact that the Ramseys seemed distant from each other that morning. Of course, John just 'saved' Patsy. She was tottering on the edge of reality. He was torn between saving his family's reputation and his anger at Patsy.
 
BlueCrab and Barbara - lol :D I love God jokes.

Speaking of God... WolfmarsGirl - Oh my God... your post #20 gave me chills - that could be what happened... you could be onto something there. Outstanding theorizing. And in your post #27, IMO you nailed it... it pretty much answers those "what was John thinking" questions (if he was innocent). The only thing I disagree with is the speculation that John Ramsey will ever tell the truth. However...

WolfmarsGirl said:
I think John running for office has something to do with Patsy's final days. I think he might let her quietly pass and then some day use his position in public office to tell the world the truth.
Well he may indeed tell the world something, but it sure as hell won't be the truth (IMO)... unless you count the Ramseyfied version... lol.

I wouldn't put it past John to some day pin the murder/molestation/staging all on Patsy even if that's NOT the truth. Can't you just hear the spin now? Poor clueless, devoted hubby stood by his wingnut wife and took all that public abuse for doing nothing more than being a supportive husband and devoted family man. What a guy. Whatever he says, you can bet it won't be the whole truth and John Ramsey'll come out smellin' like a rose. :angel:

I agree with you about Burke. I think he's the only hope for the truth ever coming out.
 
tipper said:
My difficulty with your scenario is; if it had unfolded the way you suggest I think both Ramseys would have slunk off into the suset and continued to keep a low profile.
Tipper, your points are well taken. However there is no understanding these Ramseys. They look innocent because they didn't crawl under a rock and hide, but they look guilty because everything they have done since the crime has been about me-me-me.

Except for Patsy's stupid "hold your babies close" comment, they have never used any public appearance to vent anger about their daughter being brutally murdered and how a killer is still out there roaming free and nothing is being done about it. All they want to talk about is how THEIR lives were effected and how THEY are coping with being murder suspects. They act like they hate to be bothered when they are asked to talk about JonBenet.
 
Shylock said:
They look innocent because they didn't crawl under a rock and hide, but they look guilty because everything they have done since the crime has been about me-me-me.
IMO it's a hide in plain sight strategy. Like the flashlight, and the lawsuits, and JonBenet's body. The Ramseys are all about outsmarting, manipulating and playing people.
 
Britt said:
...
Well he may indeed tell the world something, but it sure as hell won't be the truth (IMO)... unless you count the Ramseyfied version... lol.

I wouldn't put it past John to some day pin the murder/molestation/staging all on Patsy even if that's NOT the truth. Can't you just hear the spin now? Poor clueless, devoted hubby stood by his wingnut wife and took all that public abuse for doing nothing more than being a supportive husband and devoted family man. What a guy. Whatever he says, you can bet it won't be the whole truth and John Ramsey'll come out smellin' like a rose. :angel:

I agree with you about Burke. I think he's the only hope for the truth ever coming out.

Yes, I agree. I think Burke will crack some day. He may not know anything at all. We'll see.

I am not sure how involved John is in this. I really don't think he committed a crime outside of obstruction. The possible molestation issue always bothered me though.

You are right. With Patsy gone, John can just about make up any story he wants to about how Big-Bad-Momma did it all by herself.

Like I said, I always thought Patsy killed her child during a fit of rage. Now, I am re-thinking that possibility.

I certainly don't want to think she planned this. But, maybe she did...

I am certainly getting tired of hearing about 'good moms' who decide one day to kill their own babies. I get so angry when I hear about these women! I can't help it.

Somehow, I don't get angry with Patsy when I think she accidentally might have killed JBR. I just feel genuinely sorry for her.

If she actually planned it though, like that nut-case Laney, I am not sure I can be so sympathetic.

Weird.
 
In most situations I've been in discussions with people who knock religion, I have found that those same people weren't brought up in a church based home. My experience has been that those people ridicule organized religion and the people who try to follow it because they are pretty much ignorant of the true teachings of the Bible. Also, Everyone claims that there have been more people killed in the name of God than anything else in the world. Is it God's fault that people kill in his name? No, it is the people who do the killing. "In the name of God" is their own excuse for justification, not His. The only thing God is actually guilty of is giving man a choice to do right or wrong. What evil people do in His name is because they feel a need to put a spin on their own actions so they won't seem "EVIL". Jesus died on a cross for his fellow man. He didn't tell people to kill in his name, he told them to believe in God's good, in his love, and to love others as he loved them, and to spread his word of these things. What man has chosen to do in His name isn't His fault, it is man's fault. Do you think that multitudes of people would kill other people if they were told to do it in the name of the person telling them to do it? Daily reading of the Bible and daily prayers are NOT fanatical in themselves. Daily life filled with greed, hatred, and the love of only material things are fanatical. Don't blame God for man's shortcomings and their evil actions. It is also a proven fact that if you want to, you can "make the Bible say anything you want it to say by picking and choosing verses to back up your own thoughts. But, when read from page one forward and not just chosen passages, it makes sense, and it doesn't contradict itself like some would have you belive. There are always those who carry everything to extremes. Again, this is man's shortcomings, not God's. My three children were brought up going to Church, but two of them want to blame God for everything that goes wrong in their life. They seem to have a problem with admitting that the bad things that happen to them are always because they, themselves, have screwed up. Most of the time they fail to take on the responsibilites of their own actions. They want to blame God when things don't go their way, but they certainly don't want to give him any credit when good things happen to them. You just can't have it both ways.
As for my own opinion, there is sometimes far more damage done by psychiatrists and psychologists than men preaching God's word.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and this just happens to be mine.
 
O.K. cookie. And now back to the Ramsey case.....

Toltec said:
I completely agree with you Brothermoon...Patsy has no sense of self. Her loved ones are objects to her and when they reject her or when she no longer has use for these "objects"...she kills them off figuratively or in JonBenet's case literally. A typical Borderline case...which in Patsy's case caused temporary psychosis Christmas night.

IMO
:clap: :clap: :clap:

I would add; temporary deep psychosis Christmas night with a shallow psychosis going back years before and continuing to this day.
 
Well Cookie, unfortunately we've heard it all before. Your religious belief is the same ol' song and dance that's been performed for thousands of years.

Everybody thinks their faith is the RIGHT faith. And of course, that makes everybody else's faith either the WRONG faith or a misinterpretation of the TRUE faith.

The whole concept is rooted in the stupidity of mankind - and therefore it's a vicious circle that will never end.

IMO
 
Shylock said:
The whole concept is rooted in the stupidity of mankind - and therefore it's a vicious circle that will never end.

IMO
The whole concept is rooted in the nature of infantile retentive adults, and therefore can only be ended by individuals that make the effort to mature.
 
"Well Cookie, unfortunately we've heard it all before. Your religious belief is the same ol' song and dance that's been performed for thousands of years.

Everybody thinks their faith is the RIGHT faith. And of course, that makes everybody else's faith either the WRONG faith or a misinterpretation of the TRUE faith.

The whole concept is rooted in the stupidity of mankind - and therefore it's a vicious circle that will never end."

Your right about the same ol' song and dance being performed for thousands of years. But it is done on both sides, not just one. Comes from those who profess a religious belief, and those who are nonbelievers. I don't presume to think that MY faith is right and everyone else's is wrong or misinterpretated. I only know what I believe. Not everyone who is a believer in religion thinks their faith is the only right one, or that everyone else is misinterpreting the TRUE faith. I don't have any problems getting along with nonbelievers, I have plenty of friends who are very good people who don't believe the same way I do. Far as I'm concerned, you don't have to be a "believer" to be a good, kind, loving, genuinely caring person.
 
It's really amusing to me to see so many posters who think that all those with Christian beliefs are psycho and evil. I have always thought that unbelievers can be good people but might be capable of being more evil due to their unsaved situation. To each his own I guess. I do not believe that a person's religion is a cause for parents going insane and killing children. They are already insane and it could be that the religion is masking some of the symptoms. If you notice, Delaney was the grandiose one, having all these special signs from God and she thought that she and Andrea Yates were the prophets of the last days. It was all about her and she was above the law, the teachings of Jesus, and even the Ten Commandments. It was not really about religion or God. I didn't see anything too extreme in what Patsy said though. It really is perfectly normal for millions of people and has been for thousands of years now. On the other hand, Patsy has acted like it is all about her and it is very weird to have no anger towards the murderer. I think she could have killed JonBenet but her religion has nothing to do with it, it is her own self absorbed, flawed , selfish self that is at the root. Most people do have some sort of religious beliefs and naturally there are going to be some mentally ill people incorporating it into their psychosis.
 

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