Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #2

[BeginnersLuck]

I'm actually afraid of what may happen at the hospital today. Please let it be peaceful for Jahi, her family, other patients and staff.

 

[seattlechiquita]

I'm actually afraid of what may happen at the hospital today. Please let it be peaceful for Jahi, her family, other patients and staff.

You are not the only one dear friend :hug:

 

[fruity]

From all the years of fundraising we did for various things, I seem to remember it is illegal to change stated purpose for funds unless all donations before change were refunded. I am sure one of legal experts can weigh in and clarify if that is correct / incorrect.

I did wonder if there was an element of fraud (legally speaking). It would be good to have this clarified.

 

[EmmaliLucia]

Honestly with how much trouble that family's been giving the hospital I would be surprised if they even let them in.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Jahi McMath still on life support as deadline looms

(CNN) -- Jahi McMath remains on a ventilator at the same hospital where doctors declared the 13-year-old brain dead after tonsil surgery.

And while many people get their New Year's countdown clocks ready, the girl's family is scrambling as a darker deadline looms.

Last week, a judge ruled that the hospital could disconnect life support at 5 p.m. Monday.

"To our knowledge, they (the family) do not have a facility to move the body to," Children's Hospital Oakland spokesman Sam Singer told reporters Monday.

Jahi's family told CNN affiliate KGO that they spent Sunday working the phones, trying to line up another option...


By Catherine E. Shoichet and Caleb Hellerman, CNN
updated 2:34 PM EST, Mon December 30, 2013

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/30/health/jahi-mcmath-girl-brain-dead/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

 

[sherbetjello]

I did wonder if there was an element of fraud (legally speaking). It would be good to have this clarified.

If there is, I honestly believe that Jahi's mother wasn't/isn't aware of it. I don't think it was purposely, I honestly believe that she was trying to use that money to move Jahi out of the hospital.

I think she, like most of the family, is not coming to terms with the situation.

That causes panic. Doing things on a whim without having someone edit your choices, or explain repercussions of actions.

I have seen it in my own family when my grandfather passed (complications from a second heart surgery).

Honestly with how much trouble that family's been giving the hospital I would be surprised if they even let them in.

Children's has gone above and beyond in terms of after life care here, IMO. I would hope, given the mob after them right now, they would at least comply to letting the mother and father be there. In the least, Jahi deserves that.

 

[SeekingJana]

I don't think the staff at the hospital would ever use forceful means to do anything. They aren't " thugs", they are health care professionals.

If anything unusual happens, I wonder if there will be L.E. intervention to permit the ventilator to be turned off and the ETT tube and all other lines and tubes removed? I have never seen a situation which required the police's presence for intervention to be undertaken at a hospital bedside, but this could be the exception. I don't know, none of us do.

I also do not know who, among the hospital staff, would be the designated person to stop the life support. I personally would refuse, being aware of the family's wishes. Maybe the Chief of Surgery or another doctor in administrative capacity would be designated to minimize the liability to other staff members.

This is a very tragic outcome for Jahi, and has been for some time. I've never known of another situation such as this is all my life. Maybe there have been and I wasn't paying attention, but the photos of her make it so easy to connect with the type of girl I imagine she was. Smiling, happy, maybe a bit shy.. with hopes and dreams, now gone with her. I can't look at her photos without tears. Her life was hers, not her family's, and it's gone.

 

[Deleted member 110058]

Ii was wondering what will happen with the donations already given to the fund the family created when no facility takes Jahi's body? Will they return those funds?

I am jumping into this thread. Let me first say how amazingly knowledgeable you all are!
Regarding the return of donated funds. I checked out the website policies of .com. Those that donate have two choices. They may make their donation immediate or make it pending based upon whether the charity meets it's goal. If they choose the later, and the goal is not met then they donate nothing.
Once the donation does meet it's goal, as Jahi's has - all donations are active. Those accepting the donation (Jahi's family) may make withdrawals from the donations at any time, for any amount. The money goes directly into their bank account or can be mailed via check. There are no taxes on this money since it was a personal gift.
No mention of any ability to process refunds. Looks like the giving is at your own risk and meant to be an unconditional act of kindness.
here is a link the her donation page:
http://www..com/Jahi-Mcmath

 

[Elley Mae]

I am jumping into this thread. Let me first say how amazingly knowledgeable you all are!
Regarding the return of donated funds. I checked out the website policies of .com. Those that donate have two choices. They may make their donation immediate or make it pending based upon whether the charity meets it's goal. If they choose the later, and the goal is not met then they donate nothing.
Once the donation does meet it's goal, as Jahi's has - all donations are active. Those accepting the donation (Jahi's family) may make withdrawals from the donations at any time, for any amount. The money goes directly into their bank account or can be mailed via check. There are no taxes on this money since it was a personal gift.
No mention of any ability to process refunds. Looks like the giving is at your own risk and meant to be an unconditional act of kindness.
here is a link the her donation page:
http://www..com/Jahi-Mcmath

Thanks lmr and Welcome to Websleuths! :seeya:

 

[princesspjs]

This picture breaks my heart. If this were one of my daughters or my grand I know I'd have painted her nails while she was in the hospital and I would do their hair like her family also has done to try to make her look as good as possible.

I just can't judge this family negatively for not being able to accept her passing. Instead, my heart goes out to them.

link

RIP Jahi :rose:

 

[meme4]

As the time is drawing near, it is my sincere prayers, this family fines peace and comfort.....I hope this child is let go with dignity and the respect she so deserves...it is also my wish that we as human beings not be so quick to blame and judge when we dont have all the facts....this has been a very heartwrenching and thought provoking subject for us all, though we all didnt agree , our words and passion were for this precious child.....I wish her God Speed.........

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

New on my Comcast homepage:

Deadline Looms to Take Jahi McMath off Ventilator

By LISA FERNANDEZ

NBCBayArea.com
updated 3 minutes ago

Barring any unforeseen surprises or miracles, Children's Hospital in Oakland is poised to take a 13-year-old girl declared brain dead by three doctors off ventilator support, despite her family's efforts to keep the 8th grader on life support as long as her heart continued beating.

A judge last week ordered the hospital to keep Jahi McMath on a ventilator until 5 p.m. Monday, unless her family appealed. As of early Monday, no appeal had been formally issued with the court.

Jahi's attorney, Chris Dolan, had said he may consider filing a federal lawsuit on behalf of the girl's family. But on Monday morning, no such suit had been filed.

"This is one of the most tragic situations imaginable," Sam Singer, a public relations consultant hired by Children's Hospital, said Monday morning. "A family has long their young daughter. But unfortunately, Jahi is deceased. No amount of hope, prayer or medical procedures will bring her back." ...

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/53944996#.UsHrAJWA3X4

 

[vlpate]

Sad but ludicrous that a lawyer is in any way aiding this family in a fight to keep oxygen pumping into a corpse.

 

[atthelake]

I can't remember which member posted the links to Advance Care Directives, but whoever it was, THANK YOU. It's really something that my family hasn't thought about, but rest assured, we will be discussing it soon. Hubby and I aren't even fifty yet, but you just never know - as evidenced by this very sad, tragic case

You are very welcome. It was post #1304 from last thread and don't know how to bring it over. Does this work? HealthCareDirectives But if anything good comes from all of this, it is doing for ourselves something to perhaps avoid misunderstandings AS ADULTS as to our wishes at our end of life. :blowkiss:

 

[K_Z]

I don't think the staff at the hospital would ever use forceful means to do anything. They aren't " thugs", they are health care professionals.

If anything unusual happens, I wonder if there will be L.E. intervention to permit the ventilator to be turned off and the ETT tube and all other lines and tubes removed? I have never seen a situation which required the police's presence for intervention to be undertaken at a hospital bedside, but this could be the exception. I don't know, none of us do.

I also do not know who, among the hospital staff, would be the designated person to stop the life support. I personally would refuse, being aware of the family's wishes. Maybe the Chief of Surgery or another doctor in administrative capacity would be designated to minimize the liability to other staff members.

This is a very tragic outcome for Jahi, and has been for some time. I've never known of another situation such as this is all my life. Maybe there have been and I wasn't paying attention, but the photos of her make it so easy to connect with the type of girl I imagine she was. Smiling, happy, maybe a bit shy.. with hopes and dreams, now gone with her. I can't look at her photos without tears. Her life was hers, not her family's, and it's gone.

Snipped and BBM. If they remove support today, they will turn off the ventilator, but not remove any tubes or IV's. Because she will be autopsied, all tubes are left in situ for the ME. The attending doc, probably the intensivist will be the one to withdraw support.

I'm certain family is welcome to be present, as long as there is not a disturbance or interference.

And the hospital doesn't "have to" shut off the vent at 5 pm sharp-- they have latitude to accommodate the family's grieving and good byes. If they wish, the family will almost certainly be allowed to sit with her as her heart goes thru the process of stopping (which can take up to 10 min until all electrical activity ceases). Alarms will be silenced, and possibly even monitors turned off completely as the heart stops. Family is welcome to pray, play music, touch her, etc. They will also be allowed to sit with her body after the heart stops-- I have had families stay for an hour or so. They can also take a lock of her hair, and hopefully the nurses will take her handprints for the family.

Once her heart stops, she will be prepared for either transport to the hospital morgue, or the ME/ coroner will take the body, depending on their procedures and arrangements.

 

[Softail]

From all the years of fundraising we did for various things, I seem to remember it is illegal to change stated purpose for funds unless all donations before change were refunded. I am sure one of legal experts can weigh in and clarify if that is correct / incorrect.

I have to think that it isn't legal, based on the fundraiser being cancelled last night. The family attorney advised against holding it. Why else would the attorney advise against it? :waitasec:



"I was informed, you know, via the attorney to not have the fundraiser because we're still trying to solidify a facility for Jahi and we definitely don't want to raise funds, you know, for something that is not iron clad," Pastor Derrick Mann said

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?sec...bay&id=9375308

 

[Deleted member 110058]

I read this thread for a bit and then just cry. No one wins - no one.

 

[seattlechiquita]

I read this thread for a bit and then just cry. No one wins - no one.

:hug: to you and welcome to Websleuths. We deal with horrible tragedies every day here, but we always have each other's back. You are among friends so, here's your :coffeecup: and hang in there.

 

[Deleted member 110058]

:hug: to you and welcome to Websleuths. We deal with horrible tragedies every day here, but we always have each other's back. You are among friends so, here's your :coffeecup: and hang in there.

Thank you SeattleChiquita! What great group of folks you all are!

 

[SeekingJana]

Snipped and BBM. If they remove support today, they will turn off the ventilator, but not remove any tubes or IV's. Because she will be autopsied, all tubes are left in situ for the ME. The attending doc, probably the intensivist will be the one to withdraw support.

I'm certain family is welcome to be present, as long as there is not a disturbance or interference.

And the hospital doesn't "have to" shut off the vent at 5 pm sharp-- they have latitude to accommodate the family's grieving and good byes. If they wish, the family will almost certainly be allowed to sit with her as her heart goes thru the process of stopping (which can take up to 10 min until all electrical activity ceases). Alarms will be silenced, and possibly even monitors turned off completely as the heart stops. Family is welcome to pray, play music, touch her, etc. They will also be allowed to sit with her body after the heart stops-- I have had families stay for an hour or so. They can also take a lock of her hair, and hopefully the nurses will take her handprints for the family.

Once her heart stops, she will be prepared for either transport to the hospital morgue, or the ME/ coroner will take the body, depending on their procedures and arrangements.

You are correct. My post should have said " disconnected her ETT from the ventilator and disconnected IV fluids and any other tubes connected to devices".

I am so sorry for this lapse in wording on my part. I've stayed with families and the body until the funeral home or coroner has come for the body. In some ways, it was very healing for me to be able to give them a measure of final comfort and to say my final good-byes to them as well. Due to the fact that she has probably not had her hair washed ( not sure because of the EEG pad gel) the family may wait until the body has been released by the M.E. and prepared at the funeral home before they take a lock of hair. I hope the M.E.'s office is respectful of the family with the act of removing the body from the hospital.
This makes me cry, it breaks my heart, the whole situation is and has been so very sad from the beginning.