FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #2

[Sensei]

Not with "stand your ground" law.

Stand you Ground does NOT mean that the police CANNOT arrest someone, it means that in Court you can ask a Judge to dismiss the case because you were acting in self defense

Once again SYG is a Legal defense intended for Court of LAW, it is NOT for the police to decide that they can't arrest you once you have said that....

They can and do arrest people who shoot other people, no matter what they say during questioning, they can investigate, and they turn the evidence over to the Prosecutor who decides who to charge and with what,

The Police should not unilaterally decide that this is a self defense case and just not do their job Because that decision rightfully belongs in Court.

 

[porkchop]

Not with "stand your ground" law.

How do you figure Zimmerman stood his ground? He followed then chased an unarmed person who wasn't breaking any law. If Tray was indeed fighting him it was Tray who was standing him ground because being chased by somebody is grounds for fearing that you are in danger and would give him the right to defend himself. The whole thing about Zimmerman standing his ground was just something the cops cooked up to try to cover up the fact that they tried to sweep this under the rug, and it is falling apart.

 

[Sensei]

I'm sure the clocks are involved in some giant conspiracy.

hahahahahah okay, thanks for the laugh of the night

 

[mikeysmommom]

The Police talked to people who were witness's and they talked to GZ.At that time if they felt he should have been arrested he would have been.It is up to the investigating officers whether to arrest GZ,apparently they did not charge him based on what they were told by anyone who saw what happened.

 

[jjenny]

Stand you Ground does NOT mean that the police CANNOT arrest someone, it means that in Court you can ask a Judge to dismiss the case because you were acting in self defense

Once again SYG is a Legal defense intended for Court of LAW, it is NOT for the police to decide that they can't arrest you once you have said that....

They can and do arrest people who shoot other people, no matter what they say during questioning, they can investigate, and they turn the evidence over to the Prosecutor who decides who to charge and with what,

The Police should not unilaterally decide that this is a self defense case and just not do their job Because that decision rightfully belongs in Court.

This is hardly the only case where police haven't arrested someone claiming self-defense.

 

[jjenny]

I'm sure the clocks are involved in some giant conspiracy.

Well maybe you should explain how based on these times, he could be on the phone with girlfriend when he is already dead.

 

[Sensei]

The Police talked to people who were witness's and they talked to GZ.At that time if they felt he should have been arrested he would have been.It is up to the investigating officers whether to arrest GZ,apparently they did not charge him based on what they were told by anyone who saw what happened.

I am normally a staunch supporter of LE, but in this case, actually a 13 yr old who has seen a couple of episodes of CSI could have done a better job of investigating. They DID NOT take GZ for a drug and alcohol test even though that is SOP in any death, they did NOT make a photgraphic or get a Dr report on the injuries that GZ supposedly sustained, and there is evidence that they actively attempted to sway or change witness statements to make them more favorable to GZ. THEN they decided there was not enough evidece to take to the Prosecutor...They did a really really bad job, a shoddy job, maybe even wilful negligence, and very possible worse

They could not possibly have made a decision based on the evidence because they really didn't collect a great portion of the evidence.

 

[Sensei]

This is hardly the only case where police haven't arrested someone claiming self-defense.

The major difference perhaps being that there was good evidence collection and ample evidence showed that it was indeed self defense....unlike this case.

 

[porkchop]

Well maybe you should explain how based on these times, he could be on the phone with girlfriend when he is already dead.

He was using his head set. If it was knocked out of his ear and the microphone had broken his girlfriend would have thought the call had dropped because his side would have gone silent. But in reality they were still connected for a time during the fight.

 

[jjenny]

The major difference perhaps being that there was good evidence collection and ample evidence showed that it was indeed self defense....unlike this case.

I don't think so.

 

[jjenny]

He was using his head set. If it was knocked out of his ear and the microphone had broken his girlfriend would have thought the call had dropped because his side would have gone silent. But in reality they were still connected for a time during the fight.

If his phone broke that could explain it. Although I think she would have hung up quickly if she couldn't hear anything.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

What exactly do you think would have happened then?

Oh, I don't know, but I would guess at the very least, a quickly charged count of manslaughter against the killer who struck down an unarmed, defenseless man whose only crime was walking in a neighborhood where his skin color varied from that of most of the residents, where he had every right to walk.

 

[HiHater]

Well maybe you should explain how based on these times, he could be on the phone with girlfriend when he is already dead.

The girlfriend's call: http://www.wftv.com/news/news/state-attorney-case-will-be-given-grand-jury-shoot/nLX9c/

Zimmerman's 911 call: http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/911CallHistory.pdf

Shooting time: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...ing-shot-college-students-single-shell-casing

As I said, the only time that is not exact is the time of the shooting. Most outlets report "about 7:15."

Does that help you at all?

 

[jjenny]

Oh, I don't know, but I would guess at the very least, a quickly charged count of manslaughter against the killer who struck down an unarmed, defenseless man whose only crime was walking in a neighborhood where his skin color varied from that of most of the residents, where he had every right to walk.

And what exactly do you base this on? Can you site a similar case in Fl where this in fact happened?

 

[jjenny]

The girlfriend's call: http://www.wftv.com/news/news/state-attorney-case-will-be-given-grand-jury-shoot/nLX9c/

Zimmerman's 911 call: http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/911CallHistory.pdf

Shooting time: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...ing-shot-college-students-single-shell-casing

As I said, the only time that is not exact is the time of the shooting. Most outlets report "about 7:15."

Does that help you at all?

From that same article:


"Police documented that they arrived at scene at 7:17 p/m., which is less than five minutes after Martin's friend called. Crump said that records show there wasn’t much during the altercation, and she was on the phone for four of those minutes, so that Martin was the aggressor was "preposterous.""

But they do have numerous witnesses who heard the fight and screams for help. So really how short was the confrontation if numerous people managed to call 911 during that time?

 

[porkchop]

If his phone broke that could explain it. Although I think she would have hung up quickly if she couldn't hear anything.

Not the phone, the headset. If the headset would have broken the call would have stayed connected but she wouldn't be able to hear anything from his end until he disengaged the headset. Plus if she looked at her phone it would have showed that the call was still connected, so she could have been thinking he was just getting a bad signal.

 

[HiHater]

From that same article:


"Police documented that they arrived at scene at 7:17 p/m., which is less than five minutes after Martin's friend called. Crump said that records show there wasn’t much during the altercation, and she was on the phone for four of those minutes, so that Martin was the aggressor was "preposterous.""

But they do have numerous witnesses who heard the fight and screams for help. So really how short was the confrontation if numerous people managed to call 911 during that time?

How long would Tray have to scream before people started calling? You can hear the screams in one of the 911 calls, that's how short the confrontation is!

Anyway, I'm not going back and forth with you. I led you to the "facts" as we know them. If you still want to blame discrepancies on clocks instead of using logic and rationality, then that's your call.

 

[Sensei]

From that same article:


"Police documented that they arrived at scene at 7:17 p/m., which is less than five minutes after Martin's friend called. Crump said that records show there wasn’t much during the altercation, and she was on the phone for four of those minutes, so that Martin was the aggressor was "preposterous.""

But they do have numerous witnesses who heard the fight and screams for help. So really how short was the confrontation if numerous people managed to call 911 during that time?

Taking the most liberal view possible, GZ called 911 at 7:09,
and TM was dead very close to or around 7:15

That is 6 whole minutes....time for GZ to chase TM, even if he only took a minute to chase him down that is now 5 whole minutes,

My Aunt Fanny is 4'11 and weighs 89 lbs and she could fight with an unarmed kid who weighed 140 lbs for 5 whole minutes

he went to the trouble to chase him down, he confronted him by asking him what he was doing, and supposedly while he was doing the chasing and the confronting he was Not afraid for his life or he would have been running the other way...then 5 minutes later he has a bloody nose and is in fear of his life???? From a kid who is 60 lbs lighter, 10 years younger and has NO weapon and NOTHING no weapon or even anything that could conceivably be istaken for a weapon visible in his hands

And somehow this is enough to justify KILLING a 17 yr old kid who was doing NOTHING WRONG a kid who didn't approach him and was actually trying to run away from him.....That is so messed up I don't even know where to go from there.

I just can't see self defense in there anywhere, it just is not reasonable or logical unless you are in some fantasy world where the dead kid just HAS to be wrong somehow.

 

[HiHater]

National news, now...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-watch-killing-911-tape-reveals-racial-slur/t/story?id=15966309

The Florida police department handling the fatal shooting of an unarmed black teen by a self-appointed neighborhood watch leader admitted to ABC News tonight that investigators missed a possible racist remark by the shooter as he spoke to police dispatchers moments before the killing.

 

[2goldfish]

National news, now...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-watch-killing-911-tape-reveals-racial-slur/t/story?id=15966309

international

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?sel=site&searchPhrase=trayvon