FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #3

[Horace Finklestein]

Are you implying that the moderators have this thread in the wrong section? It says "Crimes Against Children."

I hadn't thought about it actually. I don't personally consider a 17 year old as a child...at least not in the same sense that a 10 year old is a child. But no, I have no hidden agenda to imply the mods are incorrect.

 

[mikeysmommom]

In Sanford, the tension is between blacks and the police dept. Blacks are treated differently than others by the Sanford police imo.

JMO

Thank you.

 

[rossva]

IMO there are just as many people using reverse racism to assume because Trayvon was black, he couldn't have been agressive, and did absolutely nothing to instigate/escalate the encounter.

IMO, because Trayvon was black. As you can see, there are many people who just assume a black young man must be aggressive.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Yes....especially when you consider that he was just two weeks past 16......

I know! It's insane to deny that Trayvon was a child. He was a child!

 

[T4Tide]

Some of you are saying this is not racial, but unless you're a person of color who has been "guilty" of trespass simply by being somewhere others think you shouldn't be, you wouldn't understand. Racial slurs don't have to take place. A kid simply walking down the street is not suspicious activity and is not a reason to call the cops, much less shoot him. Must my son have to defend his right to walk down a street other people can walk down without being bothered? Is this the message we want to send? This kind of stuff shouldn't be happening anymore. You'd think we've all gotten over racial issues by now, but it's simply not the case. I would hesitate to send any more of my kids to visit my mother because of this. It's not worth the risk.

I called the sheriff's office a couple of years ago in our old neighborhood because there was a couple of three WHITE teenagers walking in our neighborhood around 2am (I had gotten up with a baby.) Mostly white neighborhood. We lived on a dead end road, and the adjacent road was also a dead end. There were no teens who lived in the houses around me, and the ones who did live in the neighborhood, I knew... and knew they wouldn't be walking around at 2am. We had had some burglaries, as well, and I thought a deputy could at least check on them. They had every right to walk down the street, yes... but I also have the right to be concerned if something seemed out of the ordinary. I might even prevent someone from being harmed. If they were doing nothing wrong, a deputy could assure that, and if they were up to something, a deputy's presence could have deterred it. I would have called if they were black, Asian, green with purple horns and yellow polka dots.

My neighbor's home was vandalized in broad daylight, and I was home! LE asked if I had seen anything suspicious.... a vehicle or person. I replied I had not. However, what would have made the person/vehicle suspicious? It's color? The person's color? No... perhaps a vehicle or person I have never seen at my neighbor's home before.

I am not defending GZ or saying he is guilty/not guilty. I really don't have an opinion yet, and either way, I am deeply saddened that Trayvon is gone. I am simply saying that calling 911 or viewing someone as "suspicious" can have absolutely nothing to do with their race. Every white person who reports a suspicious person who is not white is not racist.

Trust me... there are plenty of white people (me) who view LOTS of people as suspicious, regardless of their color! I think I am naturally suspicious of everyone!

 

[jjenny]

The Prosecutor resigned?????

I think he was asked to step down.

 

[Sensei]

Because if his gun was out, he wouldn't have been on the ground with blood coming out of his head and nose. And the other poster is right, no one would physically attack a person who had a gun pointed at him.

Nor would anyone pointing a gun engage in a physical assault.

So I don't see any other way around this, but to realize the gun was concealed at this point.

Blood on his head and coming out of his head are two very distinct and different things....

One witness who arrived in the time it took to open her door after the shot saw GZ straddling TM's body on his knees with his hands on TM's back, taking the best view possible, it is highly likely that a very close contact shot to the chest is going to exit the back at some point and it is highly likely that putting his hands on TM's back would mean he would have blood on his hands

She also saw GZ putting his hands to his head in what she described as a "what have I done gesture" So blood on the back of his head could be transfer. We have not heard that GZ's wounds were documented anywhere at all except in a preliminary police report, which is not standard policy....there is no information that the horrendous wounds that he suffered were ever treated at any hospital anywhere, and it does not appear that he had blood on his shirt or anywhere else on him...at least it's not documented that he did

You CAN'T shoot someone at very close quarters in a scuffle and NOT get blood on you....which leads to the very real possibility that the shot was NOT very close quarters in a scuffle but from a greater distance, which would necessairily mean that GZ was actually NOT physically under attack when the shot was fired.

I think the protests are going to at the very least cause there to be an extremely thorough investigation, which will lead to the answers the family and the rest of the country wants and needs.

Even though Sanford PD did everything wrong, and some evidence is lost, TM's body is still available, gunshot residue will be found and there are other avenues that can be followed such as ballistics and shot trajectory which will give enough answers to form a solid conclusion, and let the chips fall where they may when we have them....but I have no doubt that the actual evidence will show that the story that GZ gave is going to be shown to be far less than accurate. IMO JMHO and stuff

 

[Ada]

I'm enjoying Rev Al Sharpton, tonight.

 

[rossva]

To Aruba perhaps?

And then if you miss you could always bring your spouse on a cruise. jmo

 

[JeannaT]

I know! It's insane to deny that Trayvon was a child. He was a child!

This is not relevant to Florida, but in Texas 17 year olds are adults in the eyes of the law. So it's not THAT far fetched for someone to consider 17 an adult.

For the purposes of this discussion, he would have sounded like an adult, and looked like an adult, and might have seemed as threatening as an adult male.

The pictures the media keeps running are disingenuous, especially considering they DO have one that's current. I don't see any reason to keep running childhood pics. It's just inflammatory and confuses the issue.

 

[HiHater]

A nine year old was alone with her brother for about 20 min she shot and killed her brother on purpose,first she blamed it on a stranger then she told the truth.A 17 usually looks like a grown man.Why are they just showing his younger pics?Has anyone seen a pic of him taken within 6 months a year?

Again, why does it matter what Trayvon looked like? Did you hear the 911 call? George Zimmerman said he looked to be in his LATE TEENS.

George Zimmerman's perspective is what matters, and he already spoke. He referred to Trayvon as a KID.

 

[Quiche]

Zimmerman is the quintessential self-fulfilling prophecy: there was, indeed, an armed assailant "up to no good" in the neighborhood that night, HIMSELF. I just hope there wasn't one who "always gets away." :furious:

This guy is a walking Greek Tragedy, and still, it's no excuse.



Justice for Trayvon, and all who loved him.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I hadn't thought about it actually. I don't personally consider a 17 year old as a child...at least not in the same sense that a 10 year old is a child. But no, I have no hidden agenda to imply the mods are incorrect.

So Chelsea King was not a child either. The 17-year-old girl murdered by the same man who murdered Amber DeBois. Of course she was a child. Trayvon is a child. Until they can legally vote, buy cigaretters, or are not longer protected under Child Labor Laws... they are a child.

 

[Sensei]

I know! It's insane to deny that Trayvon was a child. He was a child!

How strange that some people want to parse and stick to the letter of the law as they read it when it comes to the SYG law, and Proven vs, unproven, but want to fudge that 17 is still a child....and for those folks please remember

at 17, you cannot vote, you cannot buy real property, you cannot drink,
in the eyes of the law, unless you have been emancipated by a Court you are still a child.

 

[rotterdam]

Well, no.

People who have kind of misunderstood the situation and timeline think GZ is saying he was initially afraid of Trayvon. Obviously, it didn't go that way.

I'm really a little surprised why people keep saying this, when honestly, it must be obvious to everyone that at first, when GZ began following Trayvon he wasn't afraid of him.

It wasn't until he was jumped that he became afraid.

That seems to go without question.

And the reason he got jumped is because Tray was afraid. I would be too if some big white dude was following me and I was a skinny black kid.
Too many black kids have been harmed by white dudes in the past for no reason whatsoever except for being black..

 

[LolaMoon08]

This is not relevant to Florida, but in Texas 17 year olds are adults in the eyes of the law. So it's not THAT far fetched for someone to consider 17 an adult.

For the purposes of this discussion, he would have sounded like an adult, and looked like an adult, and might have seemed as threatening as an adult male.

The pictures the media keeps running are disingenuous, especially considering they DO have one that's current. I don't see any reason to keep running childhood pics. It's just inflammatory and confuses the issue.

So the media should have never shown pictures of Caylee when she was an infant? One-years-old? Only pictures of her at the age of her death?

Good to know!

 

[LambChop]

Does anyone know if TM's father was home at the time when Tray went out to the store? Could it be that the reason TM was trying to lose GZ was because he was afraid the man would find out where they were staying and his brother, too, would be in danger? If his Dad was out and TM felt responsible for his brother's safety that could be why he didn't make a run for the condo. TM didn't know this man and he obviously was afraid of him trying to get away. GZ admits confronting him when GZ knows he had no authority to do so. PURSUE is the key word here.

What were TM's rights under the law? Why aren't we hearing about those and wouldn't they superceded GZ's right to pursue him? Or did TM not have any rights because he fell into the GZ's profile of a suspect. Why else would GZ pursue him if he hadn't already decided he was a suspect in a crime he had no proof was even committed. GZ thinks he is being tried by the public but wasn't he doing the same thing to TM when he decided to pursue him. jmo

 

[HiHater]

This is not relevant to Florida, but in Texas 17 year olds are adults in the eyes of the law. So it's not THAT far fetched for someone to consider 17 an adult.

For the purposes of this discussion, he would have sounded like an adult, and looked like an adult, and might have seemed as threatening as an adult male.

The pictures the media keeps running are disingenuous, especially considering they DO have one that's current. I don't see any reason to keep running childhood pics. It's just inflammatory and confuses the issue.

17 Year olds are not adults in TX. They can consent to sex and that's about it. The age of consent is different for every states, I believe it's a low as 15-16 in some states. You cannot equate that to being an adult. In Texas, you still need a parent to sign a marriage license, don't you?

Misinformation just confuses people.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Awwww... I'm going to cry!! Tray's mom is so strong! So, so strong!

 

[Boytwnmom]

decided that this boy was up to no good,

There's a real suspicious guy. This guy looks like he's up to no good or he's on drugs or something.

and likely on drugs and has "something" that could be a threat to him

He's got his hand in his waistband.....He's got something in his hands.

and was otherwise some kind of threat to the community. What "peaceful" intention did he show? His concern was that these "a$%holes" always get away and that's what Treyvon was trying to do, get away, get back to his house and eat his skittles in peace. Calling 911 on someone merely because you have decided, without a shred of evidence, that a person is dangerous and "up to no good"and following and confronting them with your gun after LE tells you not to evidences no intent to just have a pleasant conversation. He was determined to use whatever force necessary to make sure this one didn't get away. All those other black guys Zimmerman had called about had "gotten away" in his mind and he was sick of it. His state of mind, to me, shows a willingness and perhaps even a preference to quickly utilize deadly force.

I doubt he expected to be attacked, he may have thought he could resolve things peaceably.