FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #3

[annalia]

He didn't carry the gun as a part of neighborhood watch. He has a concealed weapon license. It's also pretty clear to me that he knows full well its not his responsibility to track anyone down.

How do we know that he didn't carry it as part of his neighborhood watch? Just because he had a license for a concealed weapon doesn't mean that the gun wasn't part of his NW. he had it that night when he went gunning for Tray, are we to buy that this was the only time he carried his weapon?
Do we know when he got his gun license?

 

[jjenny]

The law states that a person "who is attacked" anywhere he is lawfully present has "no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm."

Importantly, a person cannot invoke this provision if he is "engaged in unlawful activity" or "initially provokes the use of force against himself." Finally, in Florida, once self-defense becomes an issue at trial, the prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in self-defense -- a heavy burden.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/21/opinion/bellin-stand-your-ground-law/index.html?hpt=ju_c1

See that PD? AT TRIAL. It was not for you to decide whether GZ's defense had merit.

A trial doesn't happen every time somebody is suspected of something, as people who post here full well know. Unless prosecutor feels he or she has enough evidence it's not even ethical to take a case to trial.

 

[LambChop]

I only read about arrests but no convictions.

GZ had to undergo a program after his arrest, plea deal IMO. Isn't it ironic how GZ was given a break for committing a crime but he felt justified killing a person because he felt they may have committed a crime with no proof. GZ shoved/resisted a police officer and yet the officer never shot him. Why, because the police officer would have been the one to go to jail. jmo

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Exactly tl - this whole thing stinks. What went on that night when LE showed up? Its a given that the responding officers didn't call up the statute on their laptops and debate on whether or not it applies to the current situation. So, what was said? To who, by who?

And for Trayvon to go unidentified for 12 hours? Man.............the detective that responded (was there even one?) certainly didn't do his/her job.

Still want to know where Trayvon's phone is - physcially. Who has it?


JMHO

 

[Marshmallow]

my question may seem silly but it keeps popping up in my head: was Mr Zimmerman a member of a real registered neighborhood watch program? if so,why was he alone? don't neighborhood watch members operate in teams? I know they do here.

 

[jjenny]

GZ had to undergo a program after his arrest, plea deal IMO. Isn't it ironic how GZ was given a break for committing a crime but he felt justified killing a person because he felt they may have committed a crime with no proof. GZ shoved/resisted a police officer and yet the officer never shot him. Why, because the police officer would have been the one to go to jail. jmo

There are lots of cases in which police officers have shot people, claimed self-defense and didn't go to any jail.

 

[annalia]

The law states that a person "who is attacked" anywhere he is lawfully present has "no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm."

Importantly, a person cannot invoke this provision if he is "engaged in unlawful activity" or "initially provokes the use of force against himself." Finally, in Florida, once self-defense becomes an issue at trial, the prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in self-defense -- a heavy burden.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/21/opinion/bellin-stand-your-ground-law/index.html?hpt=ju_c1

See that PD? AT TRIAL. It was not for you to decide whether GZ's defense had merit.

Exactly! It wasn't up to police on the scene to conclude that it was self defense and send the suspect on his merry way.

 

[jjenny]

my question may seem silly but it keeps popping up in my head: was Mr Zimmerman a member of a real registered neighborhood watch program? if so,why was he alone? don't neighborhood watch members operate in teams? I know they do here.

I believe it was reported this program was not officially registered.

 

[songline]

my question may seem silly but it keeps popping up in my head: was Mr Zimmerman a member of a real registered neighborhood watch program? if so,why was he alone? don't neighborhood watch members operate in teams? I know they do here.

SELF APPOINTED. :what:

 

[songline]

Florida police did not notify the boys parents.
Poor child lay in a morgue for 2 days. :what:
they took no steps to check his cell phone and try to identify him?
I think I smell a fish.
IMHO
The police tried to cover their own steps, before they let the Martins know.
This is so wrong.....
They DNA and drug test a kid. But never test the shooter? :what:
They tell the shooter to not pursue the kid, but don’t question him after? :what:

This is insane.

 

[LambChop]

I would think "stand your ground" is one thing and "chase and persue" is another. They are distinctively different. jmo

 

[jjenny]

Not two days. The next morning his father called 911.

 

[annalia]

I'm kicking myself for not bookmarking this but I read yesterday ( can't remember where, it may have been here), that the officer in charge with Trayvon was the same officer who was in charge when the black homeless man was murdered by the son of a police lieutenant, and then too no arrest was made ( even though they had a video of it) until it became public.

Have others heard this?

 

[annalia]

I would think "stand your ground" is one thing and "chase and persue" is another. They are distinctively different. jmo

It seems to be that many experts are saying this same thing.

JMHO

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I can't even imagine how she feels. I can't get his screams out of my head either and I wish that I hadn't listened to the 911 calls. Just imagine how scared he was, knowing how close he was to where his daddy was and how he couldn't make it to him. I hope Zimmerman burns in hell for what he has done.

I can't get the sound of Tray's screams out of my mind either, Adrienne. Ms. Fulton said that a mother knows the sound of her child's voice and I agree. By the end of the segment on AC Mrs Fulton was so choked up she couldn't speak and I was crying right along with her.

IMO, GZ is a child killer because Trayvon was a minor when he was murdered and I hope gz is haunted by Trayvon's cries for help ever after.

If GZ is such a stand up guy, alter boy,etc. then why hasn't he released a statement thru his atty? I realize he prolly wouldn't offer apologies due to his self defense claim, but he could offer condolences to Tray's family, he could offer regret that he left his vehicle to pursue Tray, he could offer regret that the incident escalated to the point of gun violence....something...

But what is he doing? He is hiding out. His father is speaking out regarding what a fine citizen he raised and a handful of aquaintances singing praises to his character.

One's public/business/familly persona can be radically different from who the person is in private. (I know this from personal experience)

Moo and all that jazz....wm

 

[LambChop]

There are lots of cases in which police officers have shot people, claimed self-defense and didn't go to any jail.

Not when there were eye witness accounts and the evidence proved otherwise. GZ was not LE and as a participant of the NWP he knew the rules and did not follow them and look at the results. Is he claiming to be a Watch Captain? The rules are very specific for that type of program and if he signed up to be an active member he knew the rules but yet disregarded them. GZ could have been shot himself by police. He totally disgregarded the safety of all persons involved just because he thought someone looked suspicious.

Police are not permitted to use deadly force on a non violent crime such as thief or breakins. Someone steals a purse police do not shoot the person as they are running away. If police were to get away doing this it's not a town you want to live in. jmo

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I'm kicking myself for not bookmarking this but I read yesterday ( can't remember where, it may have been here), that the officer in charge with Trayvon was the same officer who was in charge when the black homeless man was murdered by the son of a police lieutenant, and then too no arrest was made ( even though they had a video of it) until it became public.

Have others heard this?

First I've heard of this but it doesn't surprise me - being Sanford PD and all. The critical info is just exactly what went on at the scene. With such a tight timeline, Trayvon was shot 7:15-7:16 and LE arrived on scene at 7:17. Who saw what? Who was where and exactly what position was Trayvon AND GZ in? GZ could not have just been this calm "I shot this kid" level headed person (if he was - that's a red flag, or should have been right there).

So who said what? What was discussed. How many officers ended up responding? What did each one of them see, hear, say and do? I just can't imagine any officer responding to a shooting and letting the guy with the gun walk away. If the gun was visible in GZ's hand - then that officer should have gotten out of his car with his drawn! GZ should have been ordered, at gunpoint, to drop the weapon and then been immediately cuffed and removed to a backseat. Did ANY of that happen?

I just do not understand why GZ is walking free.


JMHO

 

[LambChop]

First I've heard of this but it doesn't surprise me - being Sanford PD and all. The critical info is just exactly what went on at the scene. With such a tight timeline, Trayvon was shot 7:15-7:16 and LE arrived on scene at 7:17. Who saw what? Who was where and exactly what position was Trayvon AND GZ in? GZ could not have just been this calm "I shot this kid" level headed person (if he was - that's a red flag, or should have been right there).

So who said what? What was discussed. How many officers ended up responding? What did each one of them see, hear, say and do? I just can't imagine any officer responding to a shooting and letting the guy with the gun walk away. If the gun was visible in GZ's hand - then that officer should have gotten out of his car with his drawn! GZ should have been ordered, at gunpoint, to drop the weapon and then been immediately cuffed and removed to a backseat. Did ANY of that happen?

I just do not understand why GZ is walking free.


JMHO

Don't all LE vehicles have cameras in them now????

 

[annalia]

I found this one.

Wow, I wonder if this is also the same officer that tried to change the witness statement about hearing Tray being the one that was calling for help.

Trayvon Martin case: Anthony Raimondo, first officer in charge of scene, involved in previous cover-up

Sergeant Anthony Raimondo, the patrol sergeant who was initially in charge of the scene on the night Trayvon Martin was killed, was also involved in a police cover-up in 2010. Raimondo was at the center of a controversy that ensued when Justin Collison, the son of a Sanford police lieutenant and part of a prominent family, punched a homeless black man but was not arrested.

Anthony Raimondo was the patrol sergeant in charge on the night Collison, who is white, was first detained. Raimondo made the decision not to press charges against Collison, which a former Sanford elected official told theGrio was at the behest of his superiors.

Full report; http://www.thegrio.com/specials/tra...ge-of-scene-involved-in-previous-cover-up.php

 

[SuziQ]

I'm kicking myself for not bookmarking this but I read yesterday ( can't remember where, it may have been here), that the officer in charge with Trayvon was the same officer who was in charge when the black homeless man was murdered by the son of a police lieutenant, and then too no arrest was made ( even though they had a video of it) until it became public.

Have others heard this?

I remember this.