FL - 17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #5

[Omachka]

Does being a neighborhood watchman give them any authority?

No it does not. Neighborhood watch was started as a way for people to work together to be aware of what was and what was not something that should be reported to police. They are to watch and report only.. not follow... not shoot. They are not trained or background checked. A watch captain is voted in by the other members to be the liaison with LE. It is simply interested neighbors getting together to keep an eye on their neighborhood and to call LE if they see suspicious activity. They aren't meant to patrol.

There is a separate program called Citizens on Patrol. These folks are specifically trained by their local LE, they are given a patrol car marked as COP and will ride around an area (always 2 to a car)... they are to be eyes for LE and have a radio to call them. They are not allowed to carry a weapon, nor are they allowed to stop anyone or follow anyone. These folks are chosen by LE for the training usually but not necessarily from the neighborhood watch program. They must pass training classes and background checks.

I don't have a link to the info above because it was gathered from my notes at my own neighborhood's neighborhood watch meetings. Here is a link to the Orlando Sentinel article stating that neighborhood watch rules weren't kept in this case.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...1_zimmerman-community-ties-neighborhood-watch

 

[beach]

Because saying "we don't need you to do that" is not the same as saying "do not do that". I think the semantics are important here.

Okay, well why on earth would LE tell him "we don't need you to do that" if they wanted him to continue to follow him??


Come on already. It is obvious that LE was advising him to not follow him anymore.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I think Zimmerman clearly understood what the dispatcher was saying when he said "we don't need you to be doing that" when he replied "okay." The dispatcher clearly did not want Zimmerman following Trayvon. He did not demand it, but he clearly advises against it.

I don't understand what is so difficult to just say... Sure, the dispatcher told him he shouldn't be following Trayvon, but he did it anyways? That's what happened?

Another thing, if Trayvon was so suspicious, why even hang up with LE? Why didn't he stay on the line until LE arrived?

I don't think anyone is disputing that he violated the neighborhood watch guidelines. I wonder how binding those are though. They sound like recommendations and they're certainly not laws. I don't know why GZ hung up - but it sounds like he was concerned that TM would get away without being checked out. There had been 8 break ins in the neighborhood in a 15 month period.

 

[raeann]

Well, according to Bill Lee, this is the scenario? Unless he lied? He would have seen the police reports right? He was defending George Zimmerman? Letting us all know that Zimmerman was innocently jumping out of his car to jot down a street address and walking back to his car when Trayvon jumped him from behind? Why would Bill Lee say that, in defense of Zimmerman, if that's not what Zimmerman stated happened?

Good point....and here's the result of that LIE....

The addresses for that neighborhood are displayed CLEARLY under lights on the FRONT of the houses. How is it that GZ was on a sidewalk BEHIND the buildings where NO addresses are visible if he was on the way back to his truck after checking an address? He would have been either in FRONT of the houses or in the street near his truck. He was in neither place so this part of Zimmerman's story is now PROVEN to be a complete lie.

Unless of course we are supposed to believe that Trayvon was somehow able to drag a 250 pound squirming and screaming man from the front of the houses on the street, down one sidewalk, then made a 90 degree right turn to another sidewalk and then progressed 25 yards further down that sidewalk in an attempt to drag the 250 pound man back to his father's condo.

 

[Inabsentia]

Here's a witness:

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

That witness, even if we find him credible, and I am not sure I do yet, still doesn't address who the agressor was. We still only have a snapshot of one fraction of the whole incident. If someone attacks me I don't feel obligated to just yield, I will fight back, and hopefully I will get the better of my attacker, at least briefly. I should hope that someone seeing the fight at that moment won't be used later to justify my attacker shooting me. Moo imo omo etc.

 

[vlpate]

I'd like to know what this was about. Why didn't GZ want to give out his home address to the 911 dispatcher if he wasn't doing anything wrong?



http://www.examiner.com/unsolved-cases-in-national/george-zimmerman-s-911-call-transcribed

Maybe it was exactly as he said, "I don't want to give that out, I don't know where this kid is." My take is he didn't want TM to come after him if he heard GZ reporting him. I'd do the same.

If it was important, why didn't the dispatcher push? Likely because he'd already found Zimmerman in the system and Zimmerman gave his phone number, then made sure, before hanging up, the dispatcher had it.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Okay, well why on earth would LE tell him "we don't need you to do that" if they wanted him to continue to follow him??


Come on already. It is obvious that LE was advising him to not follow him anymore.

I just don't see it that way, if they didn't want him to follow they could have been more explicit.

 

[LolaMoon08]

If Trayvon attacked Zimmerman from behind like like Bill Lee claims, then what kind of injuries did he have to his arms, hands, or even knees when he fell forward? I would think his hands would have to be scraped up from trying to catch his fall? Or bruises to his arms from hitting the ground? His knees too? He was innocently walking back to his truck? I would think he'd be on the sidewalk? Maybe not? Police reports would be helpful!

 

[Omachka]

I think all the reports and witness statements claim TM was lying face down and GZ was pressing on his back while straddling his body. So TM wasn't found on his back.

That kind of bothers me too. If a person is shot in the chest, wouldn't they fall backward and land on their back? Hopefully at some point we will be able to see autopsy reports that will clear that up. IMO him being on his stomach could indicate that he was running away when he was shot. :moo:

 

[LolaMoon08]

Okay, well why on earth would LE tell him "we don't need you to do that" if they wanted him to continue to follow him??


Come on already. It is obvious that LE was advising him to not follow him anymore.

BBM You would think it would be obvious? Obviously it's not obvious?

 

[Emeralgem]

911 Operator: "Are you following him?"

GZ: "Yep."

911 Operator: "Okay, we don't need you to do that."

How is that not telling GZ to stop following TM?? Also, in no way do Florida's 911 dispatchers enforce the law. See certification requirements and expectation of duties here:
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng=&URL=0400-0499/0401/Sections/0401.465.html

IMHO..Dispatch was requesting or blatantly telling GZ NOT to follow TM...JMHO

 

[jjenny]

IMHO..Dispatch was requesting or blatantly telling GZ NOT to follow TM...JMHO

It's an advise. He is not legally obligated to follow that advise, and he is not breaking a law if he doesn't.

 

[vlpate]

Good point....and here's the result of that LIE....

The addresses for that neighborhood are displayed CLEARLY under lights on the FRONT of the houses. How is it that GZ was on a sidewalk BEHIND the buildings where NO addresses are visible if he was on the way back to his truck after checking an address? He would have been either in FRONT of the houses or in the street near his truck. He was in neither place so this part of Zimmerman's story is now PROVEN to be a complete lie.

Zimmerman was on the cut through street that he described to the dispatcher. If you look at the map in the previous thread, you will see that cut-through street runs behind the houses, not in front of them.

Unless of course we are supposed to believe that Trayvon was somehow able to drag a 250 pound squirming and screaming man from the front of the houses on the street, down one sidewalk, then made a 90 degree right turn to another sidewalk and then progressed 25 yards further down that sidewalk in an attempt to drag the 250 pound man back to his father's condo.

Where are you reading GZ is a 250 lb man? His weight is not on the police reports or other documents I've seen. Respectfully, please provide this information in link form? TIA
.

 

[Ironhorse]

He did however overlook other, earlier, logical opportunities to do so. Moo

That's easy to say setting behind a computer screen but not being privy to the entire circumstances that's mere speculation. I know there has been times where situations didn't permit a verbal communication and only a direct interaction would suffice. Imagine if you will I'm across the parking lot and I see something that strikes me as suspicious. However being unclear if any suspicious activity is involved I proceed in that direction to make a closer observation. Think about it why should I disturb someone or make them feel accused until I can ascertain the situation? However in the meantime the individual takes notice of my approach and turns from the scene and briskly takes a path to evade my view... And before I can say hey whatcha you doin' over there, their gone. You think my suspicion is going to decrease or intensify?

The truth is we don't know all the circumstances surrounding the incident. It's easy to play arm chair quarterback but until your in those shoes you have no idea how the situation looked or what all unfolded.

 

[Boytwnmom]

not from his self appointed defender. I don't find his statement credible. And, even if it WERE true which it likely isn't it doesn't justify any of his actions beyond, perhaps calling LE. Even that is stupid IMO as there was nothing a reasonable person would have found suspicious in what Taryvon was doing nor did he evidence any criminal inclination or activity in his walking while black.

Black people lives there too. And, seriously, if he was soooo concerned all he had to do was yell out to Trayvon while he was on the phone with 911 and say, "Hey, you look like you're lost, can I help you" or "Are you looking for something, someone" "Are you visiting someone here, can I help you find an apartment"? But no. Because he didn't NEED to ask, he already KNEW Trayvon was a criminal.

Frank Taaffe pointed out the circumstances that he believes led his 28-year-old neighbor to react the way he did on the night of Feb. 26: Eight burglaries within 15 months, most done by young black males, he said.

There were 8 break ins done mostly by black kids in the neighborhood.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...r-comes-to-defense-of-trayvon-martins-shooter

 

[Emeralgem]

I just don't see it that way, if they didn't want him to follow they could have been more explicit.

IMHO.. Dispatch told GZ NOT to follow him..IMHO..Thats being explicit.. JMHO

 

[rbrnmw2]

Very suspicious that the autopsy hasn't been released. Parents may have been told where Travon was shot, but were they told what the point of entry was, anterior or posterior?

Jeb Bush made a statement that he TM was fleeing and shot in the back



http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._jeb-bush-ground-neighborhood-watch-volunteer

 

[LambChop]

And this is a stated FACT? Evidence please...
As State Statue 843.20 could have some bearing on this incident. If Mr. Martin took any action to harass, intimidate, or threaten Mr. Zimmerman.
http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/843.20



We don't know that Mr. Zimmerman didn't follow the dispatchers recommendations and was attacked on his way back to his vehicle.

According to police records his vehicle was by the mailboxes. According to the map the crime scene was closer to TM's condo and in the back of a residence no were near a street sign and at the time lapse he should have been back to his truck by then. Then there is the phone call to the gf where she hears TM say why are you following me. jmo

 

[HiHater]

If you read my posts I Always say,
lets give the case a chance... because you all have hung him.
I dont know who is innicent... but all of you only dig up stuff on GZ.

Well you certainly know that Trayvon Martin is a victim, and we have been given countless reminders not to blame the victim.

Why would we dig up stuff on Trayvon, when this is a victim friendly forum??

 

[Omachka]

Are there any laws that govern neighborhood watch groups?

The main purpose is to create communication between citizens and LE. There is a national organization. There are guidelines for a NW group but the laws that govern are the same laws that govern any citizen.

http://www.usaonwatch.org/