FL 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #11

[tehcloser]

I'm going to say it: this case will end up exactly where the duke lacrosse case did.

It can't.......the cases are in no way what so ever similar.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I am sorry, I am new to this case. Was their an autopsy?

Yes, there was an autopsy. Nancy Grace said so last night, and it was confirmed by the funeral director.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/trayvon_martin_funeral_director_DItBKrvBY6dlsGi5HD9bWL

Richard Kurtz told CNN's Nancy Grace on Wednesday that Martin had a gunshot wound to his upper chest, but any other injury would have been difficult to detect because an autopsy was performed on the teen's body before he received it.

"As for his hands and knuckles, I don't see any evidence he had been fighting anybody," Kurtz said.

A Volusia County spokesman, Dave Byron, has confirmed that an autopsy was performed by them, but those results could take more than 30 days to be released. Results will not be unsealed until the investigation becomes "inactive."

 

[Donjeta]

I am not sure I understand how you can characterize TM as a "nice kid" because he looks sweet in the horseback riding photo or the one with the girl in the last thread, but on the flip side, you can be enraged at GZ for thinking the worst about seeing a strange boy walking around his neighborhood.

You are summing up based on the way someone looks just like GZ did, but this does not mean ANYTHING about character. Have you read TM's twitter accounts? He was not a nice kid imo.

I haven't read his twitter accounts but neither had GZ. His twitter doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if he was a nice kid in general or not. GZ didn't know whether he was or not.

Even truly truly bad guys whose Twitter would shock everybody have the right to walk down the street without getting shot when they're not up to anything illegal.

 

[SuziQ]

I am not sure I understand how you can characterize TM as a "nice kid" because he looks sweet in the horseback riding photo or the one with the girl in the last thread, but on the flip side, you can be enraged at GZ for thinking the worst about seeing a strange boy walking around his neighborhood.

You are summing up based on the way someone looks just like GZ did, but this does not mean ANYTHING about character. Have you read TM's twitter accounts? He was not a nice kid imo.

I don't care if TM was a rotten kid. GZ did not know this and GZ is not a judge, jury and executioner.

 

[annalia]

Speaking of suspensions...and what kids get them...

My entire Senior class was suspends for 3 days because of a prank against the rival football team that no one would own up to. Just because a suspension happens it's not always for something "bad"

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

And none of Trayvon's suspensions were for violent reasons.

Huge leap to say those suspensions would make it easy to see how he could be the aggressor. And then ignore all of GZ's real aggression issues.

My son was suspended for being in a closed off section of school, he went around the gate that wasn't fully closed and locked. He's in grad school now.

JMHO

 

[jojomonkey]

I am not sure I understand how you can characterize TM as a "nice kid" because he looks sweet in the horseback riding photo or the one with the girl in the last thread, but on the flip side, you can be enraged at GZ for thinking the worst about seeing a strange boy walking around his neighborhood.

You are summing up based on the way someone looks just like GZ did, but this does not mean ANYTHING about character. Have you read TM's twitter accounts? He was not a nice kid imo.

No disrespect to you - I'm not really responding to you personally, just the issue in general.

Honestly I'm tired of hearing about whether or not he was a nice kid or a complete punk. It doesn't matter. Nothing he did prior to that night matters. It really makes it no less of a tragedy or loss. Teenagers often suck, they just do. My 15 year old drives me nuts but I love him no less. It's a stage, they outgrow it.

You know, even if GZ did catch him doing something illegal (which I don't believe at all). The bottom line is still the same. He was relentlessly pursuing someone he had no right to pursue. He had already called the cops. He was safe in his vehicle. He could have sat it in and locked his doors. He had SO MANY choices he could have made. But he left Trayvon with few choices.

I was followed in a mall a week ago by a weird teenager - he just wouldn't let up, I tried to ignore him, I tried to lose him in a store. Finally I had no choice but to turn around and shout at him "why are you following me?" I went from being worried and uncomfortable, to being royally ticked off. I needed to do something immediate and I was prepared to get into a confrontation, the kid left me with no choice.

I wouldn't blame Trayvon for getting mad and confronting GZ. But again, GZ had a choice, he had the upper hand - he could have driven away or stayed in his truck. Instead he CHOSE to get out and get into the confrontation.

 

[pinkflamingo]

Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion. I could care less what was on Trayvon's twitter account just as I could care less what was on Zimmerman's if he had one. That's completely irrelevant to the facts that took place on the evening of 02/26/2012. I can't speak for anyone else but when I see pictures of Trayvon, I see a whole future full of promise gone down the drain because of the actions of one man who decided it was okay to play God.



~jmo~

I see a troubled youth without proper parental guidance who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I find it disturbing that his parents were letting him roam and hang out with his cousins and what not during a serious suspension from school. In a year, that would be an arrest for drugs and clearly they weren't punishing him IMO. I see GZ as not necessarily racially motivated but doing what he thought was right, and I don't see any evidence that GZ initiated the physical attack. TM should have just run home, why didn't he? I think the girlfriend's cell phone and text records need to be pulled by police, it would be interesting to see what she said about this incident on that night before she knew.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

ZIMMERMAN: What has come out that I can talk about today is that Trayvon Martin somehow snuck up on him, and according to Mr. Crump, their own attorney, he was on -- we don't know if this is verifiable information, but he was on the phone with his girlfriend. I don't know if that's a police source, but I know his attorney at least holds up the girlfriend as a source and says Trayvon told him, no, I'm not running. I'm going to walk real slow.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1203/29/pmt.01.html






"He said this man was watching him," the girl recounted. "So he put his hoodie on, said he lost the man. I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast, I told him to run but he said was not going to run."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborho...ls-racial-slur/story?id=15966309#.T3XhfnrVZDo

 

[MaryAnn]

Here is the bio for the attorney that was contacted 2 days after he shooting....

http://parkscrump.com/attorneys/benjamin-crump/

And if you read his bio, I think it's safe to say, if this case wasn't about race to begin with, it sure was on day 2 when this man was contacted.


Snipped:

Mr. Crump is a frequent author and speaker. He has recently published an article entitled “The Police don’t shoot White Men in the Back, Representing Minority Victims in Police Brutality Cases."

IMO this is where the White vs. Black stuff started. Not that inaudible word GZ may or may not have said.

Everybody wants to call GZ a racist because of a word that we can't even hear clearly.

From that article, linked in the previous thread (I'll find it if y'all want a link) this attorney has been a big part of calling for rallies and protests.


Take this attorney, JJ, AS, and he Black Panthers, how is it not RACIAL???

JMO

Everyone has their own opinion. Every channel in Los Angeles was covering TM's case last night and I have to say that 99% of the people interviewed or who spoke about the case agrees it was an unjust shooting. GZ was in the wrong 100%. Pretty much all of Hollywood, Singers/Song Writers, Talk Show Hosts and Educated people are literally OUTRAGED! After being on this board I was thinking that maybe I'm crazy, but I'm not. GZ had no business toting a loaded gun around looking for trouble, it's really a no brainer. I'm 100% convinced that GZ will be arrested sooner than later. I know I'm in the majority as far as my opinion goes.

 

[Donjeta]

I see a troubled youth without proper parental guidance who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I find it disturbing that his parents were letting him roam and hang out with his cousins and what not during a serious suspension from school. In a year, that would be an arrest for drugs and clearly they weren't punishing him IMO. I see GZ as not necessarily racially motivated but doing what he thought was right, and I don't see any evidence that GZ initiated the physical attack. TM should have just run home, why didn't he? I think the girlfriend's cell phone and text records need to be pulled by police, it would be interesting to see what she said about this incident on that night before she knew.

He could have been a troubled youth but even so, he should be alive now and he would be if GZ had left well alone. MOO.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Co-Worker: Zimmerman Lost Security Job for Being Too Aggressive
The source said Zimmerman, who made between $50 and $100 a night, was let go in 2005.
“He had a temper and he became a liability,” the man said. “One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted,” he said. “It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.”

 

[tehcloser]

I see a troubled youth without proper parental guidance who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I find it disturbing that his parents were letting him roam and hang out with his cousins and what not during a serious suspension from school. In a year, that would be an arrest for drugs and clearly they weren't punishing him IMO. I see GZ as not necessarily racially motivated but doing what he thought was right, and I don't see any evidence that GZ initiated the physical attack. TM should have just run home, why didn't he? I think the girlfriend's cell phone and text records need to be pulled by police, it would be interesting to see what she said about this incident on that night before she knew.

If GZ was not doing anything to intimidate Tray.....why would he have needed to run home? If he should have ran as you say, I guess that means there was something to run from?

 

[Bottle Cap]

And none of Trayvon's suspensions were for violent reasons.

Huge leap to say those suspensions would make it easy to see how he could be the aggressor. And then ignore all of GZ's real aggression issues.

My son was suspended for being in a closed off section of school, he went around the gate that wasn't fully closed and locked. He's in grad school now.

JMHO

My son got popped back in the day for a gram of pot. He's a junior at North Carolina this year, getting ready to go off to Cambridge.

He also wears wrinkley pastel polo shirts and docksiders and has a mop of sandy, sun-bleached hair. Its hard to imagine him being subjected to the same amount of scrutiny TM was.

 

[pinkflamingo]

If GZ was not doing anything to intimidate Tray.....why would he have needed to run home? If he should have ran as you say, I guess that means there was something to run from?

Why did TM come back to fight GZ? Are you telling me that you believe that GZ just took off running, caught TM and shot him just like that? I think TM gave him lip, then decked him.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Check this statue WOO.

790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ing=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.10.html

Well then - yes, I guess you're right - I'm going to jail. However,

it is up to the DA's office to file those charges against me - just like in this case.

A similar situation happened right here in my neighborhood a few years back. Guy saw someone breaking into a house - pulled his gun, got the dude at gunpoint on the ground and held him there until LE got there.

Gun was legal and he, in fact, did have a CWP.

There were no charges filed against the gun owner.

Just because statutes and laws say this or that - doesn't mean much - its the DA's that make the decisions and how to interpret the law.

This is exactly what we're dicussing here and why we are here. The DA, that night decided that the self-defense or SYG law applied and did not bring charges.

While I appreciate the discussion of deadly force and all - what I'm trying to get at was the actual commission of pulling the trigger. After all - that is what really killed Trayvon.

If the scuffle was over the gun and both GZ and TM had a hand on it - then it is possible there is a self defense and definitely possible that both handprints/fingerprints are going to be on that gun.

For GZ re-holster the gun - he could have possibly destroyed crucial evidence that would have backed up his claim.



JMHO

 

[pinkflamingo]

My son got popped back in the day for a gram of pot. He's a junior at North Carolina this year, getting ready to go off to Cambridge.

He also wears wrinkley pastel polo shirts and docksiders and has a mop of sandy, sun-bleached hair. Its hard to imagine him being subjected to the same amount of scrutiny TM was.

Just out of curiosity, and no disrespect intended, but did you ground him? What happened during his suspension? Did he have his phone and was able to hang out and go wherever he pleased?

 

[Adrienne37]

ZIMMERMAN: What has come out that I can talk about today is that Trayvon Martin somehow snuck up on him, and according to Mr. Crump, their own attorney, he was on -- we don't know if this is verifiable information, but he was on the phone with his girlfriend. I don't know if that's a police source, but I know his attorney at least holds up the girlfriend as a source and says Trayvon told him, no, I'm not running. I'm going to walk real slow.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1203/29/pmt.01.html






"He said this man was watching him," the girl recounted. "So he put his hoodie on, said he lost the man. I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast, I told him to run but he said was not going to run."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborho...ls-racial-slur/story?id=15966309#.T3XhfnrVZDo

I'm sorry but Zimmerman's brother did him absolutely no favors last night at all. I thought the neighbor Taafe and the "friend" Oliver were bad, but jeez, Zimmerman's own father and brother were the worst. That entire interview last night was nothing but one big contradiction. It seems very apparent to me that the Zimmerman brothers were brought up being allowed to tell mistruths without any consequences.


~jmo~

 

[Donjeta]

Co-Worker: Zimmerman Lost Security Job for Being Too Aggressive
The source said Zimmerman, who made between $50 and $100 a night, was let go in 2005.
“He had a temper and he became a liability,” the man said. “One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted,” he said. “It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.”

Guessing he didn't tell that to whoever chose him to be the captain of the neighborhood watch.

 

[Etilema]

Speaking of suspensions...and what kids get them...

My entire Senior class was suspends for 3 days because of a prank against the rival football team that no one would own up to. Just because a suspension happens it's not always for something "bad"

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

Absolutely. I know of a kid who got an entire day's in-school suspension for being "off-task", when in fact he had completed his classwork early and that's why he was just sitting chatting with the kids next to him. The school was trying to crack down on even minor discipline issues, so the teacher had written up five kids during that class, including the kid who had finished early. The principal didn't want to let him off the punishment, even after the teacher realized her mistake, because he wanted to send the message that he is very serious about the crack down. The same principal gave a kid a two-hour detention for tossing a pencil to a friend, because throwing things is dangerous. So sometimes suspensions and other disciplinary actions have to be taken into the context of what's going on in the school environment.

ETA: That said, there have been reports in MSM about what Trayvon's suspensions were for, which included graffiti on a locker.

 

[tehcloser]

Why did TM come back to fight GZ? Are you telling me that you believe that GZ just took off running, caught TM and shot him just like that? I think TM gave him lip, then decked him.

Well, that really didn't answer my question, but I think GZ was chasing him, Tray thought he got away and GZ caught up with him and a fight happened. I would have gave "GZ" lip too, but I digress. The fact is who was the one who got out of the car and went in pursuit first? It was not Tray.

Now my question was if you thought Tray should have just "ran home", then you think there was something to run from?