FL 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #11

[SuziQ]

Why did TM come back to fight GZ? Are you telling me that you believe that GZ just took off running, caught TM and shot him just like that? I think TM gave him lip, then decked him.

BBM. I don't think that's a fact.

 

[pinkflamingo]

Absolutely. I know of a kid who got an entire day's in-school suspension for being "off-task", when in fact he had completed his classwork early and that's why he was just sitting chatting with the kids next to him. The school was trying to crack down on even minor discipline issues, so the teacher had written up five kids during that class, including the kid who had finished early. The principal didn't want to let him off the punishment, even after the teacher realized her mistake, because he wanted to send the message that he is very serious about the crack down. The same principal gave a kid a two-hour detention for tossing a pencil to a friend, because throwing things is dangerous. So sometimes suspensions and other disciplinary actions have to be taken into the context of what's going on in the school environment.

In Florida, a 10 day out of school suspension is the maximum sentence. They can't give a longer or more serious sentence. And was TM kicked out of Miramar high school? Someone said they would find the link. I haven't seen anything official yet other than there were big protests there as well.

 

[m00c0w]

Well then - yes, I guess you're right - I'm going to jail. However,

it is up to the DA's office to file those charges against me - just like in this case.

A similar situation happened right here in my neighborhood a few years back. Guy saw someone breaking into a house - pulled his gun, got the dude at gunpoint on the ground and held him there until LE got there.

Gun was legal and he, in fact, did have a CWP.

There were no charges filed against the gun owner.

Just because statutes and laws say this or that - doesn't mean much - its the DA's that make the decisions and how to interpret the law.

This is exactly what we're dicussing here and why we are here. The DA, that night decided that the self-defense or SYG law applied and did not bring charges.

While I appreciate the discussion of deadly force and all - what I'm trying to get at was the actual commission of pulling the trigger. After all - that is what really killed Trayvon.

If the scuffle was over the gun and both GZ and TM had a hand on it - then it is possible there is a self defense and definitely possible that both handprints/fingerprints are going to be on that gun.

For GZ re-holster the gun - he could have possibly destroyed crucial evidence that would have backed up his claim.



JMHO

You asked why he re-holstered his weapon in the last thread.

Simply, because that's what you're told to do. You secure your weapon so that 1) someone else cannot retrieve it, and 2) you're not brandishing when the police arrive. The holster, at that point, would be the safest place for the weapon. I'm not sure preservation of evidence is really on anyone's mind at that juncture. He probably just wanted to not be holding on to it when the police came up.

 

[Bottle Cap]

Just out of curiosity, and no disrespect intended, but did you ground him? What happened during his suspension? Did he have his phone and was able to hang out and go wherever he pleased?

I don't mean this as a personal affront; rather as an experiment.

You have already ascertained that TM's parents didn't give him the proper guidance, and you based this on TM's school disciplinary actions. Please feel free to make the same inferences about myself and my son. If you didn't know he was bound for Cambridge - if he'd been shot dead shortly after his little pot deal - would you have said he was a troubled kid lacking parental guidance?

 

[Etilema]

Co-Worker: Zimmerman Lost Security Job for Being Too Aggressive
The source said Zimmerman, who made between $50 and $100 a night, was let go in 2005.
“He had a temper and he became a liability,” the man said. “One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted,” he said. “It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.”

If that's accurate, I think it shows more of GZ's righteous indignation. He doesn't like people to get away with things. And he wants to be the one to make sure they don't. JMO

 

[katydid23]

Yes, there was an autopsy. Nancy Grace said so last night, and it was confirmed by the funeral director.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/trayvon_martin_funeral_director_DItBKrvBY6dlsGi5HD9bWL

Richard Kurtz told CNN's Nancy Grace on Wednesday that Martin had a gunshot wound to his upper chest, but any other injury would have been difficult to detect because an autopsy was performed on the teen's body before he received it.

"As for his hands and knuckles, I don't see any evidence he had been fighting anybody," Kurtz said.

A Volusia County spokesman, Dave Byron, has confirmed that an autopsy was performed by them, but those results could take more than 30 days to be released. Results will not be unsealed until the investigation becomes "inactive."

The funeral director says there is no evidence that TM was fighting anyone and yet we have witnesses saying the two of them were struggling and rolling around on the grass. So there was some kind of fighting going on.

 

[pinkflamingo]

Well, that really didn't answer my question, but I think GZ was chasing him, Tray thought he got away and GZ caught up with him and a fight happened. I would have gave "GZ" lip too, but I digress. The fact is who was the one who got out of the car and went in pursuit first? It was not Tray.

Now my question was if you thought Tray should have just "ran home", then you think there was something to run from?

Walking around, casing properties, up to no good. Why would GZ lie about him acting suspiciously, looking around? Why would TM go back to fight? I find it hard to believe that GZ caught up to him and threw the first punch. There is nothing to suggest that he had ever done that before with all of the 911 calls he had mad in the past.

 

[Adrienne37]

Miami-Dade School Supt. Livid Over Leak Of Trayvon Martin’s Records

“I think it’s shameful that people are having access, unlawful access, to privileged and private information about children,” Carvalho said in an interview with CBS4′s Luis Zabala.

Carvalho said Trayvon’s disciplinary record is irrelevant to the circumstances of his killing, which the school superintendent has characterized as “an injustice.”

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/2...t-livid-over-leak-of-trayvon-martins-records/

 

[beach]

Speaking of suspensions...and what kids get them...

My entire Senior class was suspends for 3 days because of a prank against the rival football team that no one would own up to. Just because a suspension happens it's not always for something "bad"

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

Absolutely. I know of a kid who got an entire day's in-school suspension for being "off-task", when in fact he had completed his classwork early and that's why he was just sitting chatting with the kids next to him. The school was trying to crack down on even minor discipline issues, so the teacher had written up five kids during that class, including the kid who had finished early. The principal didn't want to let him off the punishment, even after the teacher realized her mistake, because he wanted to send the message that he is very serious about the crack down. The same principal gave a kid a two-hour detention for tossing a pencil to a friend, because throwing things is dangerous. So sometimes suspensions and other disciplinary actions have to be taken into the context of what's going on in the school environment.

ETA: That said, there have been reports in MSM about what Trayvon's suspensions were for, which included graffiti on a locker.

I agree that some suspensions are a bit extreme. HOWEVER, in this case we now know why Trayvon was suspended.

At work and sneaking online. Somebody help me out with a link here please. :blowkiss:

ETA: the link in the post directly above confirms the reasons for his suspensions.

 

[songline]

MIAMI (AP) -- The funeral director who oversaw slain Florida teenager Trayvon Martin's burial says the body bore no signs of a fight.

Richard Kurtz says there were no notable marks on Martin's hands, face or body other than the gunshot wound that killed him. Kurtz says he expected to see some marks if Martin had been in a fight.

Read more: http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/21007081955719/#ixzz1qcO83u7F

But I do hope that an autopsy will give us the FACTS not a view.

 

[pinkflamingo]

I don't mean this as a personal affront; rather as an experiment.

You have already ascertained that TM's parents didn't give him the proper guidance, and you based this on TM's school disciplinary actions. Please feel free to make the same inferences about myself and my son. If you didn't know he was bound for Cambridge - if he'd been shot dead shortly after his little pot deal - would you have said he was a troubled kid lacking parental guidance?

Depends on what his past had been like. <modsnip> I have no info on your son other than what you have told me. But, yes, if he had been hanging out on his cell phone hanging out, wandering around, yes, I would wonder why there was not any reinforcement at home from the parents.

 

[Donjeta]

Just out of curiosity, and no disrespect intended, but did you ground him? What happened during his suspension? Did he have his phone and was able to hang out and go wherever he pleased?

It is irrelevant to me. I know some kids with negligent parents and absolutely no supervision but they still shouldn't be shot.

 

[songline]

Miami-Dade School Supt. Livid Over Leak Of Trayvon Martin&#8217;s Records

&#8220;I think it&#8217;s shameful that people are having access, unlawful access, to privileged and private information about children,&#8221; Carvalho said in an interview with CBS4&#8242;s Luis Zabala.

Carvalho said Trayvon&#8217;s disciplinary record is irrelevant to the circumstances of his killing, which the school superintendent has characterized as &#8220;an injustice.&#8221;
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/2...t-livid-over-leak-of-trayvon-martins-records/

TMs history is not less relevant then GZ's 2005 history.
It helps to put the pieces together.

 

[tehcloser]

The funeral director says there is no evidence that TM was fighting anyone and yet we have witnesses saying the two of them were struggling and rolling around on the grass. So there was some kind of fighting going on.

Maybe Tray was scared chitless with this man on top of him and just screaming for help, maybe he didn't actually "fight" back? If you were witnessing this in the "dark" it might look like a "fight" when actually you have someone who has already subdued someone sitting on top of him getting ready to shoot.

And if it was sooooo dark that the witness who said GZ was not injured can't be believed because " he couldn't see well enough" to do that. Then I guess it was to dark for those who said they thought Tray was on top to really be sure eh?

ETA: Actually we have video where GZ does not look like he has been in a "fight" and we have the funeral director saying it did not look like "Tray" had been in a fight.....I don't think it's a stretch to say, hmmmm, maybe there was no "fight" maybe we had a scared kid who was yeliing, but doing what GZ was saying and GZ shot him.

 

[Adrienne37]

Walking around, casing properties, up to no good. Why would GZ lie about him acting suspiciously, looking around? Why would TM go back to fight? I find it hard to believe that GZ caught up to him and threw the first punch. There is nothing to suggest that he had ever done that before with all of the 911 calls he had mad in the past.

Can you please provide a link that states that Trayvon was casing properties and up to no good?

TIA.

 

[w1df10wr]

In Florida, a 10 day out of school suspension is the maximum sentence. They can't give a longer or more serious sentence. And was TM kicked out of Miramar high school? Someone said they would find the link. I haven't seen anything official yet other than there were big protests there as well.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/30/us/trayvon-martin-profile/index.html

Martin's mother transferred him from Miami's Carol City High School to Dr. Michael M. Krop High School, closer to her home.
"He was doing average in school, a little bit better when he was at Carol City and then I had him transferred,'' Sybrina Fulton said, according to the Miami Herald. "I thought Krop was a better school and I wanted a different environment for him. My oldest son has graduated from there.'' ---

Not sure if that answers your question, that is all I've found in regards to TM going to a different high school.

 

[gxm]

Co-Worker: Zimmerman Lost Security Job for Being Too Aggressive
The source said Zimmerman, who made between $50 and $100 a night, was let go in 2005.
“He had a temper and he became a liability,” the man said. “One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted,” he said. “It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.”

What I find most interesting is that the former co-worker does not say that GZ is a racist.

 

[jojomonkey]

Depends on what his past had been like. <modsnip> I have no info on your son other than what you have told me. But, yes, if he had been hanging out on his cell phone hanging out, wandering around, yes, I would wonder why there was not any reinforcement at home from the parents.

Going to a store and then back to a house is considered "wandering around?" Seriously?

 

[Beyond Belief]

Is is reasonable to be concerned that a bulge in the front pocket of a hooded jacket COULD BE a weapon?

 

[songline]

Everyone has their own opinion. Every channel in Los Angeles was covering TM's case last night and I have to say that 99% of the people interviewed or who spoke about the case agrees it was an unjust shooting. GZ was in the wrong 100%. Pretty much all of Hollywood, Singers/Song Writers, Talk Show Hosts and Educated people are literally OUTRAGED! After being on this board I was thinking that maybe I'm crazy, but I'm not. GZ had no business toting a loaded gun around looking for trouble, it's really a no brainer. I'm 100% convinced that GZ will be arrested sooner than later. I know I'm in the majority as far as my opinion goes.

HOW IS THAT SO???
NONE of the people can say what happened before the shot. NOT ONE SO FAR can say anything about SEEING anything.
They heard voices, arguing, fighting before the shot.. SAW NOTHING TILL AFTER THE SHOT.


I think there should be an arrest for the purpose of a full and through investigation.