FL - Dawn Brancheau, Female Trainer Killed at Shamu Stadium

I always thought that smaller holding place was like a line up for the next animal to come out, does that make sense. When I saw the show a few years ago, it look to me that they moved them around alot. Now I agree they do need more space, like the ocean.
When I saw this show and I'll probably get slapped down, but it was an awesome show, if i went to seaworld again, I would want to just go and see the show, and skip all the rest.
I'm confused did she fall in, or did he grab her?

I went to SeaWorld in San Diego many years ago and there were protesters all over the place at the entrance to the park. I didn't understand why until a few hours into my stay at the park. We caught a glimpse of a tank that a killer whale was in, alone. It was small and the only thing he could do was swim in circles. It hit me like a ton of bricks that these animals live their entire lives swimming in circles. It's not just killer whales, dolphins too. It must drive them insane.

I just found out about a documentary called 'The Cove'. I've made a request through my library to order the DVD but if they decline, I'll order it myself. If anyone has seen it please pm me or post your thoughts. Thanks.

http://thecovemovie.com/
 
Great film. One of the main activist guys in the film, Rick O'Barry was the Flipper trainer and it was his house that was used in the TV show. I loved Flipper as a kid! Now I am as horrified as O'Barry at how we treat these animals. I watched the movie with my 11 yr old twin boys who love animals and we're all on the same page about never going to Seaworld, the very though makes me ill after coming to an understanding of what captivity means to these animals.

Oh, I rented "The Cove" for $1.00 through one of those Redbox video vending machines at my local Stop and Shop-don't know if you have those where you are.

Excerpt from NY Tmes article below:

"But “The Cove,” like the dolphins, would be lost without Richard O’Barry, who captured and trained all five of the animals who made Flipper a television star and a household name and sparked the craze for performing sea mammals. His drooping eyes and sagging shoulders testify to the bone-deep exhaustion of someone who has spent the last 35 years atoning, and when he gate-crashes a meeting of the International Whaling Commission, the video screen strapped to his chest is like a physical manifestation of decades of guilt.

“If a dolphin is in trouble anywhere in the world, my phone rings,” he says. (We don’t need to be told that his heart breaks.) You may not give a fig for dolphins, but Mr. O’Barry is giving enough for us all."

http://movies.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/movies/31cove.html







I went to SeaWorld in San Diego many years ago and there were protesters all over the place at the entrance to the park. I didn't understand why until a few hours into my stay at the park. We caught a glimpse of a tank that a killer whale was in, alone. It was small and the only thing he could do was swim in circles. It hit me like a ton of bricks that these animals live their entire lives swimming in circles. It's not just killer whales, dolphins too. It must drive them insane.

I just found out about a documentary called 'The Cove'. I've made a request through my library to order the DVD but if they decline, I'll order it myself. If anyone has seen it please pm me or post your thoughts. Thanks.

http://thecovemovie.com/
 
I hope Sea World returns the killer whale to the ocean now.
 
I hope Sea World returns the killer whale to the ocean now.

I'm not sure it can be returned to the ocean now. If I remember correctly, in the link provided where the expert says he thinks the attack was premeditated, returning the whale back to the wild isn't an option. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

ETA: I looked at the link again...he does say that returning it to the ocean isn't an option and most likely it will be isolated. I feel bad for the trainer and her family but I feel so bad for this whale. The trainer's family says that the trainer wouldn't want this whale to be put down; they're like her children.
 
I just saw on HLN, a man associated with SeaWorld saying that this Orca will absolutely not be euthanized. Thank God.

I agree that these beautiful animals are NOT for our entertainment. They belong in their natural habitat, the ocean. NOT in a pool, doing tricks for humans. If they need to be studied, then study them. Training them to do tricks to entertain humans is greedy and inhumane. I feel the same about all animals being held in captivity for our "entertainment". If I were being held captive in a tiny area, I might act out and harm somebody, too! As a matter of fact, I definitely would. Why should a WILD animal be any different?

I'm sorry for this trainer and her family and they are in my thoughts and prayers. I'm glad she loved these animals and loved "training" them. I just wish that people would stop going to SeaWorld and other venues that IMPRISON WILD animals so there isn't a need to inhumanely contain them any longer. I just wish there would no longer be a need for "trainers" of these gorgeous, innocent, WILD creatures. That's all.
 
I agree with you Tizzle. Sea World should take some of the money they're making and build these killer whales (and other mammals in aquariums) a larger enclosure. They could at least make their lives a little more bearable while in captivity. THEN, these should be the last. No more animals in captivity for our study or pleasure. There are numerous animals that have been studied while in the wild, these should be the same.
 
I did see an expert say that they are unable to study these animals in their natural habitat and that they do need to study them, but he added "Just not in this way."
 
I hope Sea World returns the killer whale to the ocean now.

They (the whale experts) believe they can not do this. Many of the killer whales at Sea World locations were born in captivity. I'm guessing the born in captivity killer whales are more people friendly? Note: these little cute born in the pool whales are still called "killer" whales.

Again, I'm guessing Tilikum, the whale in question was not born in captivity. They say killer whales are very intelligent. I wonder what would happen to Tilikum if he was let go into the wild? Is there no way for Tilikum to adapt? The wild worked for "free" Willie.
 
Tizzle, I have to give you more than just a "thanks". I say AMEN to everything you've said, I couldn't agree with you more.
 
I sped-read the thread and heard smatterings on HLN today...

It is my understanding that Tilikum was not born in captivity but raised in captivity; iow, he was captured in his infancy.

This is a far cry from beautiful animals rescued from such ugly fates and now living in sanctuaries. (e.g. circus elephants, some who are so emaciated that they cannot be saved)

I heard some pundits trying to justify the captivity by claiming the knowledge gained at Sea World and the publicity for causes such as the dolphin as well. Studies in natural habitats are not only done, but they also provide more accurate information about any species. Besides all that, there's the Amusement factor. :-/

I could go on&on...this is such a tragic incident. I do not forget the trainer who was killed, and I extend my condolences to her family & loved ones.
 
I always thought that smaller holding place was like a line up for the next animal to come out, does that make sense. When I saw the show a few years ago, it look to me that they moved them around alot. Now I agree they do need more space, like the ocean.
When I saw this show and I'll probably get slapped down, but it was an awesome show, if i went to seaworld again, I would want to just go and see the show, and skip all the rest.
I'm confused did she fall in, or did he grab her?
He grabbed her and drowned her, although different spectators disagree on whether he grabbed her arm or her waist, but he rushed up. I also read he was provoked by her pony tail. What I don't understand is why they let a whale perform that they knew has killed two other people, and he wasn't obeying in earlier performances...
 
He grabbed her and drowned her, although different spectators disagree on whether he grabbed her arm or her waist, but he rushed up. I also read he was provoked by her pony tail. What I don't understand is why they let a whale perform that they knew has killed two other people, and he wasn't obeying in earlier performances...

I also think they'd stop. After all this is the third killing this animal has been involved in.
 
Sad for the trainer and her family, sad for the whales and all of the other animals forced to perform for the "privilege" of being kept.

I have to say, this trainer's family is a class act. They are not stomping around looking for a lawsuit or demanding the whale be killed. They say she loved the whales and knew the risks, that they view this as a tragic accident.

I'm very impressed with how they are handling this loss. Reading about the trainer, it sounds as though she loved these animals her whole life and always wanted to work with them.

My prayers for their consolation and peace.
 
They (the whale experts) believe they can not do this. Many of the killer whales at Sea World locations were born in captivity. I'm guessing the born in captivity killer whales are more people friendly? Note: these little cute born in the pool whales are still called "killer" whales.

Again, I'm guessing Tilikum, the whale in question was not born in captivity. They say killer whales are very intelligent. I wonder what would happen to Tilikum if he was let go into the wild? Is there no way for Tilikum to adapt? The wild worked for "free" Willie.

sniperacer, is "Willie" the same as Keiko the whale. I was reading about Keiko the other day after this happened and he didn't fair so well in the wild. He wouldn't dive very deep for food (at least not as far as whales that were born and lived in the wild) and he still depended on humans for some of his food. He kept swimming along with their boats, and never joined a pod. So, in the words of the person writing the article his release was partially successful.

I'm sorry I don't have the link. I looked for it but there are sooo many links for Keiko that I didn't find the exact one. Some give a whole other view have how he adapted.
 
If Tilly was involved in the drowning of a trainer the first time, she should have been retired years back.. Obviously Tilly was a danger and was not in a proper environment. Orcas are not vaudeville robot performers...they're whales. She wasn't retired by Seaworld because she made the almighty dollar. I feel sorry for the woman and her family too and Seaworld should be held responsible.

Are we all responsible for this death as well? I'll point to myself specifically. Everytime I paid to watch the Shamu show I contributed to the possibility of the next death. Trust me, I've seen it dozens of times (San Diego). Took friends, out of town relatives, etc.

Wonder what would have happened had NO ONE oohed and ahhed at these shows. Would the have been shut down like they should have? I will make myself a promise never to use killer whales as entertainment for me, my child, his friends, or family members. I hope we can all do the same.

Hugs,

Mel
 
Great film. One of the main activist guys in the film, Rick O'Barry was the Flipper trainer and it was his house that was used in the TV show. I loved Flipper as a kid! Now I am as horrified as O'Barry at how we treat these animals. I watched the movie with my 11 yr old twin boys who love animals and we're all on the same page about never going to Seaworld, the very though makes me ill after coming to an understanding of what captivity means to these animals.

Oh, I rented "The Cove" for $1.00 through one of those Redbox video vending machines at my local Stop and Shop-don't know if you have those where you are.

Excerpt from NY Tmes article below:

"But “The Cove,” like the dolphins, would be lost without Richard O’Barry, who captured and trained all five of the animals who made Flipper a television star and a household name and sparked the craze for performing sea mammals. His drooping eyes and sagging shoulders testify to the bone-deep exhaustion of someone who has spent the last 35 years atoning, and when he gate-crashes a meeting of the International Whaling Commission, the video screen strapped to his chest is like a physical manifestation of decades of guilt.

“If a dolphin is in trouble anywhere in the world, my phone rings,” he says. (We don’t need to be told that his heart breaks.) You may not give a fig for dolphins, but Mr. O’Barry is giving enough for us all."

http://movies.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/movies/31cove.html

Thanks for the info. I was wondering if The Cove would be suitable for children and you answered my question before I could even ask. :square:

Not too long ago another killer whale attacked his trainer. The video quality on youtube isn't good but I saw the attack from another source clearly. In the clear version you can see the whale pull him under by his foot after he continually thrashed him around in the tank. I thought he was going to drown him. None of the other trainers got in the water to help. They stood by the side of the tank trying to distract the whale to no avail. The trainer was lucky. He only had a broken foot. Here is the blurry video of the attack. Suggestion--turn the volume down during the attack because the music is laced with profanity. The quick interviews after are worth hearing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Af67qv5Dzg

Another whale attack, she received over 100 stitches:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jSSb3Xe0-s
 
What a hugely controversial subject. I have, and will continue to, see the shows at Sea World.

I am so sorry that Dawn lost her life; and I am proud of her family for understanding that Dawn died doing what she wanted with her life.

Keiko was never able to make a home for itself in the wild - it did not meet up with any other whales (or, if so, did not bond with them), and eventually died only a few years after being returned to the open ocean. Re-integration of an ocean mammal is not yet a viable opportunity, as Keiko's life showed us.

Humans are not normal prey of Orcas. Tilikum is an aggressive animal, and while I think that whales are indeed sentient and have feelings and social structure, I don't believe they have an equal understanding as humans. I don't think "we're better" - we are different from them, and they are different than us. They process information and cues differently than we do, and see the world differently than we do.

Therefore, I cannot agree that this attack was "premeditated", inasmuch as we understand the term...I don't believe that there was any prethought, planning, or plotting. If what we're told is true and he lunged up and out and caught Dawn, then it was far more of a spur of the moment thing - a "hot blood" attack, if you will; he saw her, he reached for her, and he took her. It was more an instinct, rather than a plan...he didn't "wake up" that morning and say, "today, I'll kill my trainer. how do I do that?...", but rather took advantage of a moment in time.

I am in no way blaming Dawn. I am also not blaming Tilly. He had a history of death involving humans, although one is not necessarily his fault. If the reports I've heard are true, he was agitated and not responding to the cues of the trainers earlier that day; this should have been an indicator that something was off, something was wrong, and should not have been used for the rest of the day.

I work with animals, namely horses, who've been abused. My personal horse attacked me several times, breaking my hip/pelvis once, and breaking my face once. They are considered "prey" animals, but horses will fight if believed to be cornered and fighting is the only option.

In my work with these amazing animals, I've discovered that if I don't pay close, close attention to their pre-work behavior, and behavior while I'm working with them, I run the risk of being seriously injured. It is up to me to determine if I can safely work with that animal, if that animal needs something other than what I'm providing at that time, and it's up to me to head off danger. Learning that took two hospitalizations, but I still have my personal horse, and we work very well together now...but it's still up to me to know if there's an issue (based on behavior) that means we won't ride/work today, but rather do other things...sometimes, other things means being left alone.

It seems to me that cues were missed; had there been policies in place regarding what to do when the animal misbehaves and is acting irritated, perhaps this tragedy could have been avoided.

Working with animals brings an inherent risk...we, as people who work with them, who love them, who are around them daily, are the ones responsible for their welfare...we are the ones who are responsible ultimately for our welfare, and the welfare of our animals.

This was not premeditated...not the way we understand it. It may have been that Tilly was unhappy, or protecting a cow in heat; it may have been that Tilly was upset by a ponytail. It may have been that Tilly was just "not in the mood" to perform. But it was not premeditated...I don't believe they have the capacity to do so.

As for if they should be kept in capitivity, I also agree with that. We have learned so very much from the whales in captivity...things we would not have learned in the wild. Furthermore, Sea World the organization is without a doubt a savior to many, many animals, and continues to educate the public on the unseen, amazing world of oceans...in many different ways.

I do not believe that returning them to the wild is an ethical thing, as it will not allow them to survive (look at Keiko for a good example).

I do believe that a larger holding area should be made for them, though. That is perhaps the one thing I can agree on.

Overall, as with anything, this is my opinion, and I'm not an expert by any stretch of imagination. I do enjoy the "Shamu" shows, and will continue to go and see them as I have in the past. I think that some sort of revamp of the policies and procedures of using a whale who is being agitated, disobedient, and aggressive should be done, and parameters put into place to understand those behaviors, and to remove them and the trainers from danger.

I am glad to hear that Sea World will not be euthanizing this animal, and that they are not going to be using him in their breeding program...and that they are not going to rip him away from his current pod, and "release" him into the wild where he will not be able to make a life for himself.

Like I said, this is all my opinion. Overriding all else that has been said, I am so sorry for this trainer's death, and my thoughts and prayers are with Dawn's family.

Best-
Herding Cats
 
John_Burrows -- that you for posting those videos. The second one is particularly terrifying, although I can't for the life of me imagine why that woman would have wanted to ride on the back of that whale (in a bikini, no less).

I am not blaming the victim of Tilly the whale's "attack" (and may she RIP), but if some of the eye-witness stories are correct and the whale did grab her by the hair, I wonder why her hair wasn't tied back and under a cap instead of just in a ponytail. In a film clip I saw of her, she had beautiful, very long blonde hair which, even if tied back, would have resulted in a long, blonde ponytail. If the whale did grab her by the hair, maybe he though it was a toy, a prop, or food.
 

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