FL - Dawn Brancheau, Female Trainer Killed at Shamu Stadium

I think the conclusion we need to make is that after all these years of interacting with and studying the killer whales ("I'm just a harmless dolphin" - SNL) we really do not understand them.
 
John_Burrows -- that you for posting those videos. The second one is particularly terrifying, although I can't for the life of me imagine why that woman would have wanted to ride on the back of that whale (in a bikini, no less).

I am not blaming the victim of Tilly the whale's "attack" (and may she RIP), but if some of the eye-witness stories are correct and the whale did grab her by the hair, I wonder why her hair wasn't tied back and under a cap instead of just in a ponytail. In a film clip I saw of her, she had beautiful, very long blonde hair which, even if tied back, would have resulted in a long, blonde ponytail. If the whale did grab her by the hair, maybe he though it was a toy, a prop, or food.

I read this "theory" in the news. So the "experts" want us to believe that the simple answer is Tilly didn't like (or liked) ponytails?

Did anyone notice the original quote by Dawn's sister?

Diane Gross, Dawn Brancheau’s sister, said:
“She did not have children. The whales were her children -- and her ‘dogs,. When you talked to her about the whales, you thought she was talking about her children. She’d tell you who was acting up, and who was not behaving -- she just loved them to death

Unfortunate choice of words.

RIP Dawn.
 
Herding cats, thank you for that post. I wonder also why the trainer continued to interact with Tilly once she noticed that he wasn't in a very good mood. Especially with his history. In the two videos that were posted above I noticed that all the female trainers had pony tails. I guess a pony tail could be confused with a fish that a trainer might hold up for the whale.

No matter how much they study these beautiful creatures we'll most likely never know what caused Tilly to attack.
 
What a hugely controversial subject. I have, and will continue to, see the shows at Sea World.

I am so sorry that Dawn lost her life; and I am proud of her family for understanding that Dawn died doing what she wanted with her life.

Keiko was never able to make a home for itself in the wild - it did not meet up with any other whales (or, if so, did not bond with them), and eventually died only a few years after being returned to the open ocean. Re-integration of an ocean mammal is not yet a viable opportunity, as Keiko's life showed us.

Humans are not normal prey of Orcas. Tilikum is an aggressive animal, and while I think that whales are indeed sentient and have feelings and social structure, I don't believe they have an equal understanding as humans. I don't think "we're better" - we are different from them, and they are different than us. They process information and cues differently than we do, and see the world differently than we do.

Therefore, I cannot agree that this attack was "premeditated", inasmuch as we understand the term...I don't believe that there was any prethought, planning, or plotting. If what we're told is true and he lunged up and out and caught Dawn, then it was far more of a spur of the moment thing - a "hot blood" attack, if you will; he saw her, he reached for her, and he took her. It was more an instinct, rather than a plan...he didn't "wake up" that morning and say, "today, I'll kill my trainer. how do I do that?...", but rather took advantage of a moment in time.

I am in no way blaming Dawn. I am also not blaming Tilly. He had a history of death involving humans, although one is not necessarily his fault. If the reports I've heard are true, he was agitated and not responding to the cues of the trainers earlier that day; this should have been an indicator that something was off, something was wrong, and should not have been used for the rest of the day.

I work with animals, namely horses, who've been abused. My personal horse attacked me several times, breaking my hip/pelvis once, and breaking my face once. They are considered "prey" animals, but horses will fight if believed to be cornered and fighting is the only option.

In my work with these amazing animals, I've discovered that if I don't pay close, close attention to their pre-work behavior, and behavior while I'm working with them, I run the risk of being seriously injured. It is up to me to determine if I can safely work with that animal, if that animal needs something other than what I'm providing at that time, and it's up to me to head off danger. Learning that took two hospitalizations, but I still have my personal horse, and we work very well together now...but it's still up to me to know if there's an issue (based on behavior) that means we won't ride/work today, but rather do other things...sometimes, other things means being left alone.

It seems to me that cues were missed; had there been policies in place regarding what to do when the animal misbehaves and is acting irritated, perhaps this tragedy could have been avoided.

Working with animals brings an inherent risk...we, as people who work with them, who love them, who are around them daily, are the ones responsible for their welfare...we are the ones who are responsible ultimately for our welfare, and the welfare of our animals.

This was not premeditated...not the way we understand it. It may have been that Tilly was unhappy, or protecting a cow in heat; it may have been that Tilly was upset by a ponytail. It may have been that Tilly was just "not in the mood" to perform. But it was not premeditated...I don't believe they have the capacity to do so.

As for if they should be kept in capitivity, I also agree with that. We have learned so very much from the whales in captivity...things we would not have learned in the wild. Furthermore, Sea World the organization is without a doubt a savior to many, many animals, and continues to educate the public on the unseen, amazing world of oceans...in many different ways.

I do not believe that returning them to the wild is an ethical thing, as it will not allow them to survive (look at Keiko for a good example).

I do believe that a larger holding area should be made for them, though. That is perhaps the one thing I can agree on.

Overall, as with anything, this is my opinion, and I'm not an expert by any stretch of imagination. I do enjoy the "Shamu" shows, and will continue to go and see them as I have in the past. I think that some sort of revamp of the policies and procedures of using a whale who is being agitated, disobedient, and aggressive should be done, and parameters put into place to understand those behaviors, and to remove them and the trainers from danger.

I am glad to hear that Sea World will not be euthanizing this animal, and that they are not going to be using him in their breeding program...and that they are not going to rip him away from his current pod, and "release" him into the wild where he will not be able to make a life for himself.

Like I said, this is all my opinion. Overriding all else that has been said, I am so sorry for this trainer's death, and my thoughts and prayers are with Dawn's family.

Best-
Herding Cats

I don't mean to sound flippant but could you make a list of things we've learned from killer whales in zoos? Jack Hannah (who makes his living off of zoos) always says that exact same thing but he never elaborates.

I really don't understand...a whale in captivity will not act the same as a wild one so we're comparing apples and oranges.

It sounds like an excuse to keep abusing these animals for profit but I'd love for someone to change my mind and let me know all these wonderful things they've learned from whales while they're swimming in circles their entire lives.
 
I don't mean to sound flippant but could you make a list of things we've learned from killer whales in zoos? Jack Hannah (who makes his living off of zoos) always says that exact same thing but he never elaborates.

Good question. Without sounding flippany as well, I'll start.

1) We learned that 12000 lb male killer whales do not like, or like, ponytails.
 
I read this "theory" in the news. So the "experts" want us to believe that the simple answer is Tilly didn't like (or liked) ponytails?

Did anyone notice the original quote by Dawn's sister?

Diane Gross, Dawn Brancheau’s sister, said:


Unfortunate choice of words.

RIP Dawn.

Sniperacer -- I did not realize that there was an actual "theory" being raised about the ponytail. I was just looking at photos and videos of Dawn and noticed her beautiful blond hair and how long it was and had a thought that maybe the whale saw the movement of the ponytail and grabbed it. Who knows what really happened to make that whale grab her?

One of my dogs -Shadow- exhibits OCD behavior -- he is very particular about his toys and "chewies." Thankfully he is non-aggressive - but he will growl at the other dogs if they go near his chewie (he will, however, let the younger female dog have it if she whines enough). One time he was playing with a male dog at the kennel and the dog must have done something my dog did not like and Shadow attacked the other dog and almost killed it. Fortunately, the kennel owner was able to pull him off the other dog. Shadow is a wonderful and loving dog, but I do watch him around other dogs and children -- just in case. You never know what will set an animal off.

I agree with other posters that the Seaworld employees should have been more observant, especially since the whales were not listening to their trainers earlier in the day.
 
I don't mean to sound flippant but could you make a list of things we've learned from killer whales in zoos? Jack Hannah (who makes his living off of zoos) always says that exact same thing but he never elaborates.
I can't elaborate, either, as I'm neither a cetacean scientist nor an animal expert. However, in my experience with animals, I've learned a lot about their interaction with each other that, had I not had them in a contained environment, I most likely would not have seen, understood, nor been able to see behavior which takes time to develop (e.g a bonding process between two animals, which takes a lot of time and many interactions).

I really don't understand...a whale in captivity will not act the same as a wild one so we're comparing apples and oranges.
I don't doubt that there are things we cannot learn from the whales in captivity; I do say that we can learn a lot - interaction, communications, feeding behavior, social behaviors, mating behaviors/courtships, pair-bondings, and so forth from those we have in captivity.

We cannot learn as much from wild animals - we have difficulty tracking, identifying, and monitoring for more than brief seconds their behavior in the wild.

While you see it as apples and oranges, I see it as fruit...there is a basic similarity between fruits, and we can learn from that. The specificity of an orange may not be identical to apples, but the basics don't change - fruit is fruit.

It sounds like an excuse to keep abusing these animals for profit but I'd love for someone to change my mind and let me know all these wonderful things they've learned from whales while they're swimming in circles their entire lives.
I don't doubt that's how you feel. I do see things differently. Yes, you do sound flippant, but that's all right...you're allowed to have a different frame of mind about things than I do. I hope that if you think a bit about what we have learned - just from being able to observe from a close distance for many hours at a time, you may see the value in it.

Of course, you may not. That's also your choice. It's all good, in the end...different opinions are what makes this world go 'round.

Best-
Herding Cats
 
Sad for the trainer and her family, sad for the whales and all of the other animals forced to perform for the "privilege" of being kept.

I have to say, this trainer's family is a class act. They are not stomping around looking for a lawsuit or demanding the whale be killed. They say she loved the whales and knew the risks, that they view this as a tragic accident.

I'm very impressed with how they are handling this loss. Reading about the trainer, it sounds as though she loved these animals her whole life and always wanted to work with them.

My prayers for their consolation and peace.

I agree with what you are saying but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Sea World is already offering a confidential settlement to the family, whether they will take it or even want it - we will probably never know, and I mean no criticism of them in any way! I just think it is probably happpening.

Just sayin.

Eve
 
Herding cats, thank you for that post. I wonder also why the trainer continued to interact with Tilly once she noticed that he wasn't in a very good mood. Especially with his history. In the two videos that were posted above I noticed that all the female trainers had pony tails. I guess a pony tail could be confused with a fish that a trainer might hold up for the whale.

No matter how much they study these beautiful creatures we'll most likely never know what caused Tilly to attack.

Thanks, Lizzybeth.

What I don't think people understand is that Tilikum was taken at 2 years old - very young - from a transient pod. The whales he's with, and has been with, have been either from resident pods or birthed in captivity.

Transient pods are, by nature, far more aggressive, smaller in number, and tightly bound to each other for basic needs, far more so than the residents. Whereas a resident pod can have up to 50 or 60 members (some of the larger pods on the West Coast [Puget Sound, the Sounds of Alaska, et cetera] have at least that many), transient pods have perhaps 10-15 members.

Transient pods are sometimes referred to as 'gangs of the sea', as their behavior is rather similar to inner-city gangs. They fight together against perceived threats, they stay grouped together, and can range thousands of miles in a tight grouping. They do not eat the typical resident food, like herring and smelt and other smaller schooling fish. They will eat sharks, walruses, seals, and other large species of mammals. They are 'rougher' than those who are resident pods in their interaction, and have been known to kill their own if provoked sufficiently. Transient pod behavior versus great white sharks have been studied, with very interesting results...you can do a search on them (it's a West Coast study) to see what was found.

The fact that Tilikum came from a transient pod tells me he is far more aggressive than the other whales. This should have been a key factor in interacting with this whale. In my experience, an animal who is known to be more aggressive (like my own horse) takes a different kind of treatment/training and understanding than does a different horse. I cannot simply throw a saddle on him and take off for a calm trail ride...I have parameters I use with him which include watching, assessing behavior, and diversion activities before I think about putting on a saddle...and, depending on his mood, we may work in the large arena on jumping, or the small arena on training new cues, and then perhaps take him on a short trail ride. I use this method when I work with other horses, as well, and when working with...cats. (Hence the name).

I hope that there can be something learned by this death. Tilikum does not need to be put down. Tilikum would not survive in the wild. The only thing for Tilikum is to maintain him in his known world, and learn from this...and I have faith that Sea World will do that.

Best-
Herding Cats
 
It looks like the pony tail may have been a factor after all. The man that trained Dawn (he no longer works at Sea World) said it was against protocol for the trainers to be in the tank with Tilly. Dawn was in a transition part of the pool that was only 4" deep but she lay down and her pony tail was in the water with Tilly.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/18346387
 
I am sure many of you have seen the same reports I have seen but I have not seen this information in any of the posts:

- it has been speculated in some of the news reports on NBC interviews that Tillikum was attempting to 'play' with the trainer as evidently this behavior is behavior that is seen when the whales grab seals and don't intend to harm them. Seals, obviously can hold their breath for a lot longer, more blubber as protection against crushing, etc

- secondarily they have interviewed on NBC a past trainer from british columbia who was one of the staff when Tilikum was previously owned at the location where there was an accident and his understanding was Tilikum was to be used for 'breeding purposes only' and not for show because of what had happened at their location.

- also from NBC - Because orcas can no longer be captured from the wild, their price tag is up in the 2 million dollar range and Tilikum has successfully sired 8 'pups' (which is probably one reason Sea World does not want to release him)

Obviously this information is only as good as my source and it was during the NBC Nightly News last night so I am sure many saw the same as I. I am on the West Coast, however, so they may have had more time to put something together....

MOO
 
Thanks for that, Lizzybeth. Interesting, interesting, interesting.

Best-
Herding Cats
 
I was thinking about what we learn from animals in captivity, and realized I only spoke to the social aspect of what we learn, the behavior and so on.

What we learn from animals in captivity, especially those like whales, are:
~blood constituency: the make up of the blood, the electrolytes, proteins, plasma, and cellular makeup (including immune response activity).
~Basic metabolic issues, such as O2, CO2, HCO3, and various other contributors in the respiration system (these are mammals, after all)
~How long gestation takes. If we know the date of insemination, either artificially or in the natural way, and the date of birth, over time we can find out what the gestation period is.
~What types of tolerance they develop, what changes in their water they can withstand.
~What sort of food produces better growth, better longevity, and better physical health.


Why is this important?

~If we know how long gestation is, we can create a census of animals. If we find fewer than we expect, we can look towards an outside influence (e.g. predation, contamination) and perhaps correct it.
~If we understand the constituency of the blood or basic metabolic panel, we can see what is making a whale ill (or perhaps why it died, if we have an intact, fresh specimen wash up [very, very rare]).
~Is their environment creating and producing a correct balance of food for the Orca needs?
~Can they withstand the pollution we dump into the water? Or should we, landlubbers all, find a different way of processing our waste before we put it into the ocean?

And so on.

We cannot learn this from the animals in the wild; we cannot get close enough to safely obtain a blood sample, let alone track an Orca over time to find out the normal value ranges for the species. Similarly, we can't track how long a cow is pregnant, if we don't know when she got pregnant and when she gave birth. We don't necessarily know how long it would take to repopulate a pod, and how a low population of Orcas would affect a residence's natural ecosystem. We could guess, perhaps, but we wouldn't know, and any guess would be tentative at best.

There are so many other things I'm sure we've learned, but not being a cetacean biologist, I don't know what they are. But those few examples, above, should show you the value of holding a few whales in captivity for studying and learning from.

Best-
Herding Cats
 
Having seen the show in Orlando several times & Tili I have pictures & video of Dawn during the shows.

I watched many of the News videos on this, feeling sick just hearing about it. Imagining the horror of the spectators. I told my hubby that before this was all over I bet any amount of money Sea World would blame Dawn the trainer. Sure enough today its from her hair & she broke protocol. My quesion is why did Sea World allow her not to follow protocol?

I sat totally amazed when I heard the doors to Sea World would open again Sat & Tili would again be used in the show. Ok there are now 3 deaths associated with Tili. Tili is definately a KILLER WHALE.....& Sea World will make more money off him!:furious:
 
I can't elaborate, either, as I'm neither a cetacean scientist nor an animal expert. However, in my experience with animals, I've learned a lot about their interaction with each other that, had I not had them in a contained environment, I most likely would not have seen, understood, nor been able to see behavior which takes time to develop (e.g a bonding process between two animals, which takes a lot of time and many interactions).


I don't doubt that there are things we cannot learn from the whales in captivity;I do say that we can learn a lot - interaction, communications, feeding behavior, social behaviors, mating behaviors/courtships, pair-bondings, and so forth from those we have in captivity.

We cannot learn as much from wild animals - we have difficulty tracking, identifying, and monitoring for more than brief seconds their behavior in the wild.

While you see it as apples and oranges, I see it as fruit...there is a basic similarity between fruits, and we can learn from that. The specificity of an orange may not be identical to apples, but the basics don't change - fruit is fruit.


I don't doubt that's how you feel. I do see things differently. Yes, you do sound flippant, but that's all right...you're allowed to have a different frame of mind about things than I do. I hope that if you think a bit about what we have learned - just from being able to observe from a close distance for many hours at a time, you may see the value in it.

Of course, you may not. That's also your choice. It's all good, in the end...different opinions are what makes this world go 'round.

Best-
Herding Cats

I don't think horses can be compared to whales.

When you said that a lot has been learned from captive whales I thought you'd be able to list at least one thing. If that sounds flippant to you then I'm sorry. I really wanted to know the education value -vs- the life they're forced to live.

There are hours and hours of documentaries you can watch on whale behavior in the wild. You can also read books, there are lots available on whales in the wild covering every topic you mentioned. You'll learn much more from those than watching a whale perform tricks for food.

Just as you've asked me to think about what I've learned, I hope the next time you give money to SeaWorld you think about what their lives are like and what you're supporting. You get to watch a cute show and go home and live freely while they're stuck in that tank every day of their lives. There is nothing natural about the way they are living.

The SeaWorld Parks and Entertainment President Jim Atchison said the following (he makes no mention of education):

"We have created an extraordinary opportunity for people to get an up-close, personal experience and be inspired and connect with marine life in a way they cannot do anywhere else in the world,"

IMO the bottom line is MONEY, not education and here's why:

"SeaWorld operations are built around Shamu and the orca. So quantitatively they mean literally hundreds of millions of dollars to that company," said Dennis Speigel, president of International Theme Park Services, a consulting firm.

A little more background on Tilikum:

"No animal is more valuable to that operation than Tilikum, the largest orca in captivity, which now has been involved in the deaths of two trainers and requires a special set of handling rules, which Atchison wouldn't specify. Captured nearly 30 years ago off Iceland, Tilikum has grown into the alpha male of captive killer whales, his value as a stud impossible to pin down."

Tilikum was bought in 1992 from a now-defunct Canadian park where he was one of three orcas that battered and submerged a fallen trainer until she died. After the woman slipped into the water, she became like a plaything to the three whales, said Adam Hellicar, a former diver at Sealand of the Pacific near Victoria, British Columbia.

"They were towing her around by her clothing," said Hellicar, who helped recover the woman's body.

SeaWorld got an emergency permit to buy Tilikum and the other two whales less than a year after that attack, and he became the company's go-to sire. Of the 20 calves born at SeaWorld parks, Tilikum has fathered 13, the company said. SeaWorld has only one other breeding male at the moment.

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20100224/US.SeaWorld.Death/
 
I disclosed I don't have experience with cetacean biology, that my experience has been with horses, but that similar issues might exist, and certainly similar responsibilities exist. I have worked with some dangerous horses (one which killed a man), and have been pretty well taught to pay attention to my surroundings, my training methods, and be very aware of what the animal I'm working with is thinking, insofar as I can tell. Be assured that one can easily be killed working with horses...and at 1500-1800 pounds, they're not tiny, nor are they weak.

Further, if you bothered to actually read my response at 3:50 (just up-page a bit), you'll note several things I outlined which I don't believe that you can get in the wild...please review that, and consider it. You apparently haven't yet.


Just as you've asked me to think about what I've learned, I hope the next time you give money to SeaWorld you think about what their lives are like and what you're supporting. You get to watch a cute show and go home and live freely while they're stuck in that tank every day of their lives. There is nothing natural about the way they are living.

And lastly, there is not a need to get snarky with me, thank you very much. I hold a different opinion than you, but that doesn't make me a bad person. I shall give money to Sea World, as is my option. You don't have to, as is your option. Neither one is right or wrong; both are personal choices. And as I sit there in the stands, watching folks who do not have access to these (and other) beasts, and see their faces light with amazement and awe, I know that they see the animals as real, as living, sentient beings, and out of the thousands who see the show, who's to say the next conservationist is born? Who's to say that one person, after touching a dolphin, won't put into the trash the 6-pack plastic holder, now that they realize the animal may die because of their lack of thought?

Of course they make money. They're a business, and businesses do that (at least the successful ones). But unless you understand the positive impact Sea World has had on the ocean inhabitants, don't only look at the one-sided aspect of simple entertainment as bad.

Lastly, I am aware of Tillikum's history. He has been involved in two additional instances which were death-related; one as a trio who killed a female trainer, and one in which we're not exactly sure of what happened, other than a man, dressed only in his underpants, was found draped across Tilikum's back. I am also aware of which type of pod he came from, and know enough to understand that the differences in pod types may have made a huge difference in his behavior.

There is nothing 'natural' about many of the animal's lives that we keep in captivity, bred for that or not. It is not natural for dogs to live on sofas, nor cats on top of the entertainment center; snakes don't belong in aquariums, and cows in milking sheds; chickens in coops, and birds in cages. That's not "natural" either...and some would go so far as to say that humans in houses in inner cities is also not 'natural'.

If one chooses to work with a wild animal, they accept, understand, and undertake the responsibilities of that. If the trainer made the errors, then she made the errors...and that's just the way it is. It cost her her life, and that just sucks...but if she didn't remember the boundaries, didn't keep herself safe (as the video may show), I don't believe that the blame can go anywhere else.

As I stated previously, it's a controversial subject, to be sure. I'd appreciate it if you'd manage to keep it less personal, and discuss the subject, if you can. I do understand, however, the emotional position that you hold. I don't agree with it, but I understand it.

Best-
Herding Cats

Just my opinion, as always.
 
FYI: I was doing some online research and found an article about a study published in the Journal of Applied Animal Behavior Science. In the article it talks about how a "growing number of behavioral studies strongly suggest that whale and dolphin brain power is only matched by the higher primates, including man."

The article suggests that we should "adopt a new approach to conservation of these species which takes into account their intelligence, societies, culture and potential to suffer."

Here is the link: Intelligent, Emotional, Ingenious: the Amazing Truth about Whales and Dolphins by Michael McCarthy.

Some cetacean species exhibit culture -- behavior that is acquired through social learning.

Based on this article and others about dolphins that I have read, I believe that SeaWorld is mistreating the whales and dolphins in their care. Imagine how they are suffering. Tilly was taken away from his pod when he was the age of a 2-3 year old child and put into captivity. One of the articles I read stated that Tilly and the 2 female whales he was with in British Columbia (all three are the ones that killed the 20-year old trainer) were deliberately withheld food if they did not do the "tricks" they were being taught. In addition, eyewitnesses said the 3 of them were kept in a small pen and they would scrape their sides on the pen's wall and bleed.

Sounds his life has been pretty horrific for a whale-- no wonder Tilly is the way he is.
 
Penelope, I was certainally surprised to read in your post that food was withheld as a punishment. In our society that is abuse to children or people and these animals are suppose to be as intelligent or more intelligent than some humans. For whats it worth, I think its cruel to keep these animals in confinement for the use of entertaining humans.
 
Are we all responsible for this death as well? I'll point to myself specifically. Everytime I paid to watch the Shamu show I contributed to the possibility of the next death. Trust me, I've seen it dozens of times (San Diego). Took friends, out of town relatives, etc.

Wonder what would have happened had NO ONE oohed and ahhed at these shows. Would the have been shut down like they should have? I will make myself a promise never to use killer whales as entertainment for me, my child, his friends, or family members. I hope we can all do the same.

Hugs,

Mel

Tnx for the hug and hugs back. That is such a good question. I don't know, but since there were two previous questionable events he should have been retired. Seaworld kept him because he made money. I wonder if the trainers knew about his history. It is alll so sad for the trainer's family and for the whale.
 
Just wanted to give you the source information about Tilikum's training regimen at Sealand of the Pacific in British Columbia.

Why was the Sea World Trainer Killed by Captive Orca Tilikum from Seattle City Brights Blog -- author Candace Calloway Whiting: Volunteer, Center for Whale Research at Friday Harbor.

In the blog article, the author gives some background history about Tilikum that says that following the death of the assistant trainer at Sealand in 1991, Tilikum was going to be set free until SeaWorld interfered and ended up taking him to the U.S.

The more I research, the more I realize that SeaWorld is more interested in making money off the entertainment provided by these beautiful animals than in their health and well being. It is such a shame that this had to happen when the whale could have been released.
 

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