FL FL - GERARD SCHAEFER -- How Many Victims?

[katydid23]

My father was a long haul truck driver at that time. He actually met Schaefer at a local bar and at first they became drinking buddies. He would come to our home at least once a week, and a few times we were invited to his home for cookouts and so we could play in his pool. When they first became friends Schaefer said his name was John and that he was a undercover narcotics officer. At some point he said he "left" that job due to stress, so my father spoke with his boss and Schaefer was hired as a loader/unloader. If my memory serves me correctly, shortly after that Schaefer was hired as a police officer by submitting a fake recommendation from his"Boss in Narcotics Division". All I can really remember about him is that my grandmother (my fathers mother lived with us) and my mother both distrusted him.Anytime he came over they would send us outside to do things or to our rooms. He had the greasiest hair I had ever saw, and I thought he always smelled funny.

WOW. Just wow. That is frightening. He was EVIL personified. Your mother and grandmother were right to be wary of him. I am so sorry that you have had to live with this painful loss.

It does seem logical that Schaefer was responsible for your sister going missing. Since she knew him he may have pretended to just happen by when she was walking to school, and offered her a ride. It is awful to think about however. :rose:

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Sadly, at the time that Debbie vanished missing children cases were not taken very seriously. While they took a report the day she vanished, they refused to file it or declare her missing for 72 hours. Even then she was not listed as a endangered missing child, she was instead classified as a runaway. To date no evidence has ever been found to support that classification. The police became so tired of my parents coming in and pressing for answers, that at one point they were escorted out of the police station, and threatened with arrest if they returned. My sisters file at the Pompano Beach police department contains 4 pages. One of the detectives who now have her case, apologized to us for how terribly her case had been mishandled. After a few years of research, and a lot of insistence my brother managed to get her case reclassified as endangered missing, he also got her listed on all of the missing child sites he could find, and the police acknowledged that she was a possible victim of John Gerard Schaefer. However, to date, despite our repeated requests and pleading, they still refuse to allow us to see the evidence they found at Schaefers residence. All we have ever been permitted to see are the few black and white photos that have been published. We feel that MAYBE we could identify something of hers.

 

[katydid23]

I cannot understand why they would keep you from looking at that evidence from his residence. That makes no sense to me at all. I would think they would want to know the answers themselves. Baffling.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Q. How many people do we know he killed?

A. We know he killed at least nine. The last two bodies were found in 2007 in the Ocala National Forest, and they were the first two women he killed in 1966. That was Pamela Nater and Nancy Leichner. They vanished from Alexander Springs in 1966. Schaefer bragged about killing them, and their remains were found after he died in prison.

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2008/oct/20/monday-chat-port-st-lucie-author-yvonne-mason-sewe/

Slightly off topic, but there were recent remains found in the Ocala forest. They have been id'd as a recent missing girl and her friend, a male. Other bodies have been found there over the years.
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34693

 

[believe09]

Any idea where his haunts were in Pompano Beach? And do you have any idea how long he stayed in the area after she went missing, if he stayed at all?

 

[believe09]

Sadly, at the time that Debbie vanished missing children cases were not taken very seriously. While they took a report the day she vanished, they refused to file it or declare her missing for 72 hours. Even then she was not listed as a endangered missing child, she was instead classified as a runaway. To date no evidence has ever been found to support that classification. The police became so tired of my parents coming in and pressing for answers, that at one point they were escorted out of the police station, and threatened with arrest if they returned. My sisters file at the Pompano Beach police department contains 4 pages. One of the detectives who now have her case, apologized to us for how terribly her case had been mishandled. After a few years of research, and a lot of insistence my brother managed to get her case reclassified as endangered missing, he also got her listed on all of the missing child sites he could find, and the police acknowledged that she was a possible victim of John Gerard Schaefer. However, to date, despite our repeated requests and pleading, they still refuse to allow us to see the evidence they found at Schaefers residence. All we have ever been permitted to see are the few black and white photos that have been published. We feel that MAYBE we could identify something of hers.

My heart goes out to you. I wonder why the secrecy. I wonder if some media would help? Have you had any luck getting a reporter to do a story on it?

 

[believe09]

I wanted to bring this post over from the Gerald Stano threads-is this about your sister?

Debbie disappeared in 1972: a child vanished from the streets of Pompano Beach. So many years later, the suffering persists.

Her father, John Lowe, died of a heart attack in 1976. Just 45. His family was sure his health had been undone by the unrelieved stress of his child's disappearance.

Mother Hattie survived until 1995. Never escaped the torment. Never escaped the need to find an answer. What happened that February day when Debora Sue Lowe went missing?

<snip>

BURDEN PASSED ON

The grief didn't end with her parent's death. Rather the burden passed to the next generation.

Eva Newsome, 34, was barely a toddler when Debbie disappeared, so young that her sister eludes memory. Yet she keeps looking. As if she inherited the need to know.

And her older brother, JL, still searches the Internet and pursues leads and calls policemen.

more at the link

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/12260106.htm

I wonder if the brother has ever visited WS's?

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2011/09/19/missing-child-haunts-family-nearly-40-years-later/

I hope I remember to answer all your questions. We have no idea why we are not allowed to see the items recovered at the Schaefer residence. I was 9 years old when my sister vanished. My brother who appears in the video on the page at the above link was 10. We also have two brothers who were older than Debbie, so surely if anything of hers is there, one of us would recognize it. There have been other articles, as a matter of fact another newspaper ran an article at the same time that the one you posted ran.
Posted on Sun, Jul. 31, 2005

Cold-case cop won't give up hunt

Gerard Schaefer, who died in prison, may have murdered dozens of women, some of whom were never found, but one detective is dedicated to providing the victims' loved ones some answers.

BY WANDA J. DeMARZO

wdemarzo@herald.com

I have the article saved in my documents however I do not have a direct link to this story. I also have photos that were sent to us by Dinah Johnson of fdle when my sister was featured by John Walsh on NMCD ( National Missing Child Day) in 1995. It took us many years, and especially brother James who devoted almost all of his waking hours to get her photo and info into the public eye. With Dinora Perrys help ( Thank God for people like her) we have been able to get her case more active than it had ever been. I need to go back and reread your posts to see if I coverd all your questions.I have been trying my best to find any and all posts about my sister on the WS site so that we can at least say Thank You for the kindness and understanding. If I miss anybody I am so sorry, It is very important to us that the people who help us know that they are appreciated. Simply finding this site, with people who care in itself helps us. It seems as if everyday we find ourselves explaining why we simply don't "get over it", it is so very comforting to not have to explain why this is still so urgent to us.

 

[believe09]

((hugs)) Still, to you and yours. Is Gerald Stano also a possible offender for your sister's case? There may be some hope with him, I would think, because he seemed to have specific areas he frequented and left his victims.

I dont know if Paul Crow is alive still-he is the member of LE who Stano spoke to for hours. He may have some thoughts on your sister's case if he is still alive.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

I wanted to bring this post over from the Gerald Stano threads-is this about your sister?

Yes this article is about my sister. To answer the question, Brother James had not heard of this site so I filled him in last nite. I expect we will start seeing replies from him in the next couple days. I know he was reading some of the posts earlier as he called me and commented on the kindness people here show. He does not write things until he has his thoughts all gathered.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

((hugs)) Still, to you and yours. Is Gerald Stano also a possible offender for your sister's case? There may be some hope with him, I would think, because he seemed to have specific areas he frequented and left his victims.

I dont know if Paul Crow is alive still-he is the member of LE who Stano spoke to for hours. He may have some thoughts on your sister's case if he is still alive.

I wish to Thank Everybody who posted on my sister....oddly enough it appears as if the Schaefer and Stanos murders might have overlapped for a period of time. To be honest we did not realize Stanos had murdered anyone before 1973, but now that we know he did we have alreaady started researching that as another possibility. We are also trying to obtain contact info for Paul Crow, if he is still alive, and if we can obtain that, then brother James will give him a cal and see if he can give us any info. Thank You again for the tip on Stanos.

 

[believe09]

As of 9/27/11, former Police Chief Paul Crow was still around. If you follow this link, you can read a quote from him at the funeral of a fellow officer:

link here

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

I added her name to the title so if anyone is trying to research her disappearance, they'll be able to find her thread. Also, I have her in line to be our cold case of the week, but there are a few cases in front of her right now. This will also mean that I'll be discussing her on an episode of Websleuths Radio on the day her case is featured. :hug:

Simply saying Thank You does not seem like much for all the help....but...I can assure you our Thank You comes straight from the heart.

 

[smart blonde]

I am so sorry for your loss, and what you and your family have had to endure. Are still having to endure. I can barely imagine your pain and frustration. I have many memories of walking to school with my two older sisters in the 1970's, and my heart aches just thinking about this happening to either one of them.

~ The fact that the file on your sister's disappearance was only four pages 'thick' speaks volumes. Was Schaefer still an active duty police officer when Debbie disappeared?

~ In one of your posts above, I believe you said that Schaefer visited your home both before and after Debbie went missing. This is chilling, to me. Do you remember the circumstances of his visiting after she disappeared?

~ Some of his victim's remains were found on Hutchinson Island.
Link: http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2009/apr/27/panel-recalls-serial-killer-gerard-schaefer-whose-/

I wonder if there were other, unidentified bones recovered from that area.

It stands to reason that Schaefer would continue to use the same 'killing grounds' repeatedly. After using the area one time without being detected, that is where he would return the following times with subsequent victims. He would be comfortable there.

There may also be a chance that Debbie's remains were never recovered, as it sounds doubtful that the area was ever properly searched back then. And, that being Florida, with hurricanes and a time-span of almost four decades...

I am not familiar with that part of Florida, so I pulled this from Wikipedia, just as a reference: [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutchinson_Island_%28Florida%29[/ame]

~ Do you know if Schaefer was ever even questioned about your sister's disappearance? Was this one of the confessions he recanted? Or was the connection not officially made until after his death?

This is truly a horrifying case. I understand why you need answers. Again, I am very sorry for what this monster has done to your sister, and your family.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

As of 9/27/11, former Police Chief Paul Crow was still around. If you follow this link, you can read a quote from him at the funeral of a fellow officer:

link here

I did speak to my brother, and apparently it has been verified that Stanos was NOT in the Pompano Beach area at the time of my sisters disappearance. He has already researched Stanos and ruled him out as a possibility.
The fact the Schaefer was often in our home only convinces us more strongly that he was the one who abducted our sister.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

I am so sorry for your loss, and what you and your family have had to endure. Are still having to endure. I can barely imagine your pain and frustration. I have many memories of walking to school with my two older sisters in the 1970's, and my heart aches just thinking about this happening to either one of them.

~ The fact that the file on your sister's disappearance was only four pages 'thick' speaks volumes. Was Schaefer still an active duty police officer when Debbie disappeared?

~ In one of your posts above, I believe you said that Schaefer visited your home both before and after Debbie went missing. This is chilling, to me. Do you remember the circumstances of his visiting after she disappeared?

~ Some of his victim's remains were found on Hutchinson Island.
Link: http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2009/apr/27/panel-recalls-serial-killer-gerard-schaefer-whose-/

I wonder if there were other, unidentified bones recovered from that area.

It stands to reason that Schaefer would continue to use the same 'killing grounds' repeatedly. After using the area one time without being detected, that is where he would return the following times with subsequent victims. He would be comfortable there.

There may also be a chance that Debbie's remains were never recovered, as it sounds doubtful that the area was ever properly searched back then. And, that being Florida, with hurricanes and a time-span of almost four decades...

I am not familiar with that part of Florida, so I pulled this from Wikipedia, just as a reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutchinson_Island_(Florida)

~ Do you know if Schaefer was ever even questioned about your sister's disappearance? Was this one of the confessions he recanted? Or was the connection not officially made until after his death?

This is truly a horrifying case. I understand why you need answers. Again, I am very sorry for what this monster has done to your sister, and your family.

Yes, Schaefer was still an active duty police officer at that time. My father had met him in a bar, and he often came by to have a beer and talk, both before and after Debbie vanished. Hutchinson Island was only one of his burial sites. Several of the remains were buried as unidentified or Jane Does. My brother has worked tirelessly to have the DNA from those unidentified which were found with known Schaefer victims in a few locations compared to ours. Twice we have been told to submit DNA swabs and that way as they tested DNA from unidentified victims, if she was one of them, there would be a match. Both times we had the swabs taken by local law enforcement, and then sent to Florida. Both times the DNA profiles have either been misplaced or misfiled. We agree 100% that there is no justification for her file to only contain 4 pages. She has been missing almost 4 decades. We also feel very angry that our DNA panels are "lost".I mean please be real, these are professionals who have worked many unidentified cases....yet somehow our profiles never quite make it into the system.
We feel that they see her as unimportant and do not want to take the time or the expense to attempt to locate even her remains.Well we have a surprise for them...WE WILL NOT STOP.....WE WILL NOT BE SILENCED....WE WILL NOT QUIT....we are going to keep the mystery of Debbie vanishing in the public eye until the day we bring her home. Schaefer was not questioned about Debbie to our knowledge, but the police refuse to allow us to view his "trophys" which were found in his home, so if he had been questioned, I am not sure they would give us that info either.
Thank You for your kind and comforting comments.

 

[Cappuccino]

It seems like much too much of a coincidence that there was an active serial killer known to the family, and one of their children disappears. That just makes me think LE is being negligent in not allowing the family to look at the trophies, or even explain why!?

Still Seek Answers - have your family ever hired a lawyer?

 

[bessie]

I did speak to my brother, and apparently it has been verified that Stanos was NOT in the Pompano Beach area at the time of my sisters disappearance. He has already researched Stanos and ruled him out as a possibility.
The fact the Schaefer was often in our home only convinces us more strongly that he was the one who abducted our sister.

The timing and geography are off for Stano. In February, 1972, Stano was enrolled in school in Pennsylvania. He spent time off and on with his grandparents in Ormond Beach, FL, but didn't move there permanently until late 1972, I believe. I could be wrong, but I don't recall that he was known to have commited murder in south Florida, either. Most of the crimes were in central Florida around Pinellas and Volusia Counties.

To gain perspective, I've put together a partial timeline on Schaefer for the period near Debbie's disappearance. This is what I've come up with so far:

09/03/71 - Hired by Wilton Manors Police Dept

12/17/71 - graduates from the police academy at Broward Community College

01/05/72 - Belinda Hutchens, 22, goes missing after she is seen by her husband as she leaving home with a man in a blue Datsun. The husband later ID's Schaefer's car as the vehicle.

02/29/72 - Debbie disappears

03/16/72 - Chief Scott of the WMPD is fed up and ready to fire the new rookie, but Schaefer wins a reprieve.

04/20/72 - Scott reaches the end of his rope, and Schaefer's employment is terminated.

06/30/72 - Schaefer is hired by the Martin County Sheriff's Department

07/23/72 - He is fired and arrested by Martin County Sheriff Richard Crowder. A few days earlier, Schaefer had come across two teenage girls hitchhiking, Trotter and Wells. He drove them to a halfway house and promised to take them to the beach the next day. On July 22, he picked them up and drove them into the swamp at Hutchinson Island where he threatened them and left them tied to a tree with nooses around their necks. He returned the next day to find they had escaped. Then he called the Sheriff and told him what he had done. The girls still wore handcuffs when Sheriff Crowder later found them walking near the forest.

07/24/72 - Schaefer is charged with aggravated assault and false imprisonment, and released on bond.

09/27/72 - Teenagers Susan Place and Georgia Jessup leave in a car with an older man to play guitar at the beach. Place's mother notes the license plate but with an error. The girls never return. Six months later, Place's mother realized her mistake, and in March of 1973, she visits Schaefer in jail with the girls' photos. He claims he has never seen them.

10/23/72 - Two 14 year-old girls, Mary Alice Briscolina and Elsie Farmer are reported missing.

12/21/72 - Schaefer is convicted and sentenced to a year in jail and three months probation. His sentence commenced on 01/15/73.

01/08/73 - Colette Goodenough and Barbara Wilcox, both 19, set out from Biloxi, MS, hitchhiking to Florida and are never seen again. Identification and papers belonging to the girls are later found in Schaefer's mother's home. Both bodies were recovered in 1977 at Port Saint Lucie.

01/15/73 - Schaefer begins serving his sentence for the crimes against Trotter and Wells.

01/17/73 - Farmer's remains are discovered near Plantation High School. Briscolina's remains were found in February, 2000.

04/01/73 - The remains of Place and Jessup are found in Hutchinson Beach. Evidence at the crime scene revealed the girls had been tied to a tree.

04/07/73 - Police search his mother's home and find a collection of guns and knives, pictures of unidentified women and of Schaefer in women's underwear, plus a vast assortment of articles belonging to his victims, including Susan Place's purse and a piece of jewlery belonging to Elsie Farmer.

Schaefer was eventually convicted of the murders of Place and Jessup, and was stabbed to death in prison in 1995. He was never prosecuted for any other murders, yet he was one of the most savage and prolific serial killers of the 20th century.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/gerard_schaefer/1.html

Gerard John Schaefer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://criminalminds.wikia.com/wiki/Gerard_Schaefer

Schaefer left behind a collection of disturbing writings in the form of letters to an ex-girlfriend, Sondra London, which are compiled in a book entitled Killer Fiction. Amazon.com: Killer Fiction (9780922915439): G. J. Schaefer, Sondra London: [email]Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com[/email]/images/I/51VsITwd8ZL.@@AMEPARAM@@51VsITwd8ZL

I downloaded it to my Nook awhile back, but haven't read all of it. It's not easy to read. I'm sure I'll go back and finish it now.

My heart goes out to you and your brother, Still_Seek_Answers. I'm glad you're determined to keep searching. Victims' families should never be met with such obstacles as you've faced. The timeline I posted is just a glimpse into the crimes of Gerard Schaefer. Besides Debbie, there is a long list of unsolved murders and disappearances that could very well be attributed to Schaefer. How many other victims' loved ones are facing the same struggle for answers?

 

[believe09]

If there is something that you believe is distinctive that was in Debbie's possession, have you had a chance to provide LE with a picture or a sketch of the item(s)? I think there could be a few reasons why LE wouldnt want to share trophies with family members, but maybe there is a way to work in the other direction if you havent already.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

It seems like much too much of a coincidence that there was an active serial killer known to the family, and one of their children disappears. That just makes me think LE is being negligent in not allowing the family to look at the trophies, or even explain why!?

Still Seek Answers - have your family ever hired a lawyer?

We agree. That is why my brother pushed so hard to have her listed as a Schaefer victim.Add to that the scrapbook my mother kept, parts of it are shown in the video. My sister has similar features to ALOT of the girls he choose. We have spoken to several lawyers, and all tel us the same thing....we are looking at several years of litigation and the expenses will be huge. I have End Stage Renal Disease and do dialysis daily. Brother James is also disabled.My little sister works everyday....but none of us have the kind of money a lawyer would cost.We are better educated than our parents were, plus we have things they did not...for example the internet. Which is why we do all the research, that way when the time comes we will have all our ducks in a row...so to speak. We suspect that the evidence has been "misplaced" or even worse destroyed....either one of those would be negligence especially since they have known all along that many of the victims he had trophies from have neither been located nor identified. We can't seem to make them understand, it is not money we seek...How can you even place a dollar value on the life of a child/sister/daughter? If that was our goal, we would have filed a lawsuit long ago. All we want is to see the items and see if anything they have belonged to our sister. We truly believe we will find her ring among his trophies. My brother did obtain a court order to have her school records released. There was nothing in them to indicate any reason why they would feel so strongly that she was a runaway. We are also in a battle of that wording...we know sometimes children do runaway, however that does not make them a throw away.In our sisters case however...there is nothing....no type of proof....or nothing to even indicate that she ran away. The last words she spoke were...I will see ya later....