FL FL - GERARD SCHAEFER -- How Many Victims?

Even if she was a runaway, a girl of 13 who runs away from home should still be searched for a lot harder than that by the police. I don't believe she ran away though, not when there was an active serial killer, with still unidentified victims, actually known to the family.

I'm sorry to hear about your health problems, and also sorry to hear about the negative response from lawyers. Is there any equivalent to the Citizens Advice Bureau in the US? They give a certain amount of free legal help to people who can't afford a lawyer, and while they may be able to do no more than send a few sternly worded letters to the police, it might just get some movement out of them.

Failing that, I suppose the media is your best bet. Even the local media, if you could get them to cover it, could hopefully put some pressure on.
 
If there is something that you believe is distinctive that was in Debbie's possession, have you had a chance to provide LE with a picture or a sketch of the item(s)? I think there could be a few reasons why LE wouldnt want to share trophies with family members, but maybe there is a way to work in the other direction if you havent already.

My sister was wearing a kind of odd ring. It had been a gift from our grandmother at the time she came to live with us. It had a round center set, and 4 sets on the one side...with nothing on the other side. Yes we have sent them sketches however our requests continue to fall on deaf ears. One of the detectives actually said to my little sister.....I was only a child in 1972, what do you want from me? I was to young to even remember these cases. My sister replied, well Detective B........we were only children then too( she was 11 months old Debbie vanished) but unlike you we can't forget. We honestly feel they messed up and lost the evidence..or "trophies" recovered from the Schaefer home. We can think of no other reason for the constant denials. They can't be worried about corrupting the evidence....Schaefer is dead....it is not as if he can seek a new trial.
Have you ever seen any of the interviews with him? Here are links to a couple of his interviews....but I must warn you, they contain alot of vulgar language and very violent graphic details. The first one is his explanation for the two girls who escaped from him....after he had taken their clothes and tied them to trees.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4nt9nlreqo&feature=related"]Schaefer Soliloquy - 03 of 14 - YouTube[/ame]

This second set of links, is Schaefer in his own words reading one of his "stories". The second link makes my blood run cold every time I hear it. The sound of pleasure in his voice, and the pride he clearly shows over his writings makes me ill. But...I did notice he does speak in the second part about shooting a girl with of all things a 22 caliber . Kinda makes me wonder, were the victims Stanos claimed to have shot, actually Schaefer victims?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgdNIhvdu4A&feature=related"]Cut Bait by Serial Killer GJ Schaefer - 1 of 2 - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kguMIBoSTE8&feature=related"]Cut Bait by Serial Killer GJ Schaefer - 2 of 2 - YouTube[/ame]

This third set of links are a series that were done about Schaefer.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAqAE0JSDk4&feature=related"]Serial Killer Schaefer 1 of 4 - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4Eb57fv8_Q&feature=related"]Serial Killer Schaefer 3 of 4 - YouTube[/ame]

To say he was an animal does not even begin to describe this monster. I try not to allow my mind to focus in to much on him. Just thinking of himwith my sister.......
 
Even if she was a runaway, a girl of 13 who runs away from home should still be searched for a lot harder than that by the police. I don't believe she ran away though, not when there was an active serial killer, with still unidentified victims, actually known to the family.

I'm sorry to hear about your health problems, and also sorry to hear about the negative response from lawyers. Is there any equivalent to the Citizens Advice Bureau in the US? They give a certain amount of free legal help to people who can't afford a lawyer, and while they may be able to do no more than send a few sternly worded letters to the police, it might just get some movement out of them.

Failing that, I suppose the media is your best bet. Even the local media, if you could get them to cover it, could hopefully put some pressure on.

In the US we have what is called legal aid. They mostly will only assist people involved in criminal cases. However they tell us we are in that grey area...not poor enough to qualify.....isn't that a laugh? Not enough money to actually be able to afford a lawyer.....and to much money to qualify for assistance. If hitting brick walls were fatal my entire family would be gone. The flip side of that wall....every brick wall we hit only adds to our determination.
 
To say he was an animal does not even begin to describe this monster. I try not to allow my mind to focus in to much on him. Just thinking of himwith my sister.......

Try not to focus on him at all, is my advice. Also, bear in mind that psychopaths are arch liars, so alot of these "horrific details" he's gleefully boasting about may not even be true outside of his warped imagination. Its the only power people like that have once they're locked up, is to taunt the families of victims with whatever horror they can make up in their heads.

Don't focus on his lies. Let's just concentrate on Deborah instead, and never mind that freak.
 
The timing and geography are off for Stano. In February, 1972, Stano was enrolled in school in Pennsylvania. He spent time off and on with his grandparents in Ormond Beach, FL, but didn't move there permanently until late 1972, I believe. I could be wrong, but I don't recall that he was known to have commited murder in south Florida, either. Most of the crimes were in central Florida around Pinellas and Volusia Counties.

To gain perspective, I've put together a partial timeline on Schaefer for the period near Debbie's disappearance. This is what I've come up with so far:

09/03/71 - Hired by Wilton Manors Police Dept

12/17/71 - graduates from the police academy at Broward Community College

01/05/72 - Belinda Hutchens, 22, goes missing after she is seen by her husband as she leaving home with a man in a blue Datsun. The husband later ID's Schaefer's car as the vehicle.

02/29/72 - Debbie disappears

03/16/72 - Chief Scott of the WMPD is fed up and ready to fire the new rookie, but Schaefer wins a reprieve.

04/20/72 - Scott reaches the end of his rope, and Schaefer's employment is terminated.

06/30/72 - Schaefer is hired by the Martin County Sheriff's Department

07/23/72 - He is fired and arrested by Martin County Sheriff Richard Crowder. A few days earlier, Schaefer had come across two teenage girls hitchhiking, Trotter and Wells. He drove them to a halfway house and promised to take them to the beach the next day. On July 22, he picked them up and drove them into the swamp at Hutchinson Island where he threatened them and left them tied to a tree with nooses around their necks. He returned the next day to find they had escaped. Then he called the Sheriff and told him what he had done. The girls still wore handcuffs when Sheriff Crowder later found them walking near the forest.

07/24/72 - Schaefer is charged with aggravated assault and false imprisonment, and released on bond.

09/27/72 - Teenagers Susan Place and Georgia Jessup leave in a car with an older man to play guitar at the beach. Place's mother notes the license plate but with an error. The girls never return. Six months later, Place's mother realized her mistake, and in March of 1973, she visits Schaefer in jail with the girls' photos. He claims he has never seen them.

10/23/72 - Two 14 year-old girls, Mary Alice Briscolina and Elsie Farmer are reported missing.

12/21/72 - Schaefer is convicted and sentenced to a year in jail and three months probation. His sentence commenced on 01/15/73.

01/08/73 - Colette Goodenough and Barbara Wilcox, both 19, set out from Biloxi, MS, hitchhiking to Florida and are never seen again. Identification and papers belonging to the girls are later found in Schaefer's mother's home. Both bodies were recovered in 1977 at Port Saint Lucie.

01/15/73 - Schaefer begins serving his sentence for the crimes against Trotter and Wells.

01/17/73 - Farmer's remains are discovered near Plantation High School. Briscolina's remains were found in February, 2000.

04/01/73 - The remains of Place and Jessup are found in Hutchinson Beach. Evidence at the crime scene revealed the girls had been tied to a tree.

04/07/73 - Police search his mother's home and find a collection of guns and knives, pictures of unidentified women and of Schaefer in women's underwear, plus a vast assortment of articles belonging to his victims, including Susan Place's purse and a piece of jewlery belonging to Elsie Farmer.

Schaefer was eventually convicted of the murders of Place and Jessup, and was stabbed to death in prison in 1995. He was never prosecuted for any other murders, yet he was one of the most savage and prolific serial killers of the 20th century.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/gerard_schaefer/1.html

Gerard John Schaefer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://criminalminds.wikia.com/wiki/Gerard_Schaefer

Schaefer left behind a collection of disturbing writings in the form of letters to an ex-girlfriend, Sondra London, which are compiled in a book entitled Killer Fiction. Amazon.com: Killer Fiction (9780922915439): G. J. Schaefer, Sondra London: Books

I downloaded it to my Nook awhile back, but haven't read all of it. It's not easy to read. I'm sure I'll go back and finish it now.

My heart goes out to you and your brother, Still_Seek_Answers. I'm glad you're determined to keep searching. Victims' families should never be met with such obstacles as you've faced. The timeline I posted is just a glimpse into the crimes of Gerard Schaefer. Besides Debbie, there is a long list of unsolved murders and disappearances that could very well be attributed to Schaefer. How many other victims' loved ones are facing the same struggle for answers?

Your timeline is accurate, or at least accurate to the best of our knowledge. At this time nobody can say for certain how many missing girls from that time period could have happened to cross paths with Schaefer.
We have all read Killer Fiction, and yes it is a very hard book to read. I truly have never been able to find the words to express the feelings his book gave me. The fact that the book was actually released by Sondra Locke to bypass the Son of Sam law that was in place at that time also sickens me. She was court ordered to release those funds to a account that was going to be set up to help with locating and identification his victims, however she refused to comply. By the time this issue made it make into a courtroom, the law had changed. We have no doubt that the money made from this book was used to help pay Schaefers legal fees for his many appeals. Every time I think of her I have to wonder, is there a special place in hell for someone who helps a man that admitted to kidnapping ,cooking, and eating a 8 year old and a 9 year old child? Is there a special place in hell for someone that assists a monster that took the lives of so many loved ones? Then I stop and remind myself....the day will come that she stands in judgement......and that will be something she is not giving the chance to refuse to comply with.
Yvonne Mason has a book out titled Silent Scream which was intended to give a voice to his victims, both known and suspected. Our sister is featured in her book, and she sent all of us complimentary signed copies. Her book was also a very hard read. However, we feel no anger towards her....she did not help Schaefer...she simply attempted to give his victims the acknowledgement they deserve.
Often when thinking of my sister I listen to the Kenny Chesney song...Who you'd be today...it always makes me cry, but in it are so many of the questions we often ask ourselves.
 
Try not to focus on him at all, is my advice. Also, bear in mind that psychopaths are arch liars, so alot of these "horrific details" he's gleefully boasting about may not even be true outside of his warped imagination. Its the only power people like that have once they're locked up, is to taunt the families of victims with whatever horror they can make up in their heads.

Don't focus on his lies. Let's just concentrate on Deborah instead, and never mind that freak.

That which does not kill me,only serves to make me stronger.
 
Can you post a sketch of the ring here? I am thrilled you all continue to have faith that an answer will come. I think it will too. Who is the lead on her case now?
 
First let me say I am sorry if my answers to anyone became short. I try to stay away from his videos, for everytime I see him sitting there with that smug smile of his face, laughing as he talks about cutting a girl up and feeding her to the sharks, I become totally overwhelmed.
I do have a drawing of my sisters ring on this pc, and if I did it correctly it should be attached to this post......
 

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Try not to focus on him at all, is my advice. Also, bear in mind that psychopaths are arch liars, so alot of these "horrific details" he's gleefully boasting about may not even be true outside of his warped imagination. Its the only power people like that have once they're locked up, is to taunt the families of victims with whatever horror they can make up in their heads.

Don't focus on his lies. Let's just concentrate on Deborah instead, and never mind that freak.

You are so very correct, and I am sorry if my previous response seemed short or curt. Debbie is where my focus have to stay. In 1995 John Walsh featured my sister for the Florida Missing Child Day.,or FMCD. Our goal now is trying to get her featured on a national TV program. My brother has contacted Americas Most wanted, Nancy Grace, and a couple other programs that cover missing children. We truly feel someone saw something they thought was odd on that day. Or perhaps they heard a story that made them queasy. So far all of our media has been limited to Florida, and while we appreciate all they have done.....we have to ask ourselves if maybe the person who did see or hear something may no longer live in Florida...and perhaps they do not know that the info they hold could be the key we need.
Gerard Schaefer was the first acknowledged serial killer in the state of Florida. It is now suspected his victims went over 100. One would think that with that many possible victims, many of which are still.. out there.....someone would run his story....but to date we are still sending requests and being told everything but yes.....but we won't stop asking until his story does run.
Believe in answer to your question, Brother James does most of the dealing with the police, but unless her case has changed hands in the last few weeks...the lead on her case is Det. Chris Blankenship.
In an Interview gave by Det. john Curcio on Aug.1, 1995 he sumed up our feelings very nicely.... IT'S THE PAIN

He said the pain, as obvious as a fresh wound, keeps investigators coming back to cold case files, with so many unsolved homicides, missing children and a daunting collection of unidentified bodies.
 

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No need to apologise at all, I know this must be very painful to talk about and to sit there and listen to that sick freak describe his crimes is more than any family of a missing child should have to endure.

Is the FBI involved in the investigation into Schaeffer's crimes at all? Maybe if you approached them you might get more sense than the local PD have given you.
 
No need to apologise at all, I know this must be very painful to talk about and to sit there and listen to that sick freak describe his crimes is more than any family of a missing child should have to endure.

Is the FBI involved in the investigation into Schaeffer's crimes at all? Maybe if you approached them you might get more sense than the local PD have given you.

Yes, the FBI have an open file on my sisters case. Please notice I said open instead of active. In 1979, exactly 7 years after Deb vanished, the FBI sent my mother a letter requesting permission to have Debbie declared legally dead. My mother, was a strong woman, and after Debbie vanished she spent everyday, with my little sister in her stroller, walking to Debbie s school, and back home, showing my sisters picture to every one....she went in every little store, every big store, she knocked on doors and she questioned strangers she passed on the street.She had no give up in her.One of her 6 children were missing, and she was determined to find her even if it meant walking through every inch of the state herself. My mother not only declined the offer to have Debbie declared dead, she instead fought to keep her status as alive. I was 9 years old when Debbie vanished and by the age of 11, I knew more about murder, human trafficking of girls to other countries, and forced prostitution than most people learn in a lifetime.
We made a few requests for info from the FBI, and everytime we were told we needed to contact Broward Sheriffs Office. The laws in 1972 were so few and very limited when it came to missing children. Now my sisters case would be an AUTO FBI case simply because of her age. In 1972 that was not the case. A serial killer who drove a refrigerated truck was abducting girls in one state, raping them, killing them, then dumping them in another state. It was his case that made the FBI become involved in Debbies case. She remained a FBI case after his trail and conviction even though he was totally eliminated as her possible killer. He was killing a girl in another state during the time frame Debbie vanished.( Isn't that a sickening alibi?)
 
Bessie,
Thank You for the Tru TV link. I thought I had read and/or watched every thing that was located on the internet concerning Gerard Schaefer...somehow I apparently missed this one. You may have just given us an angle we missed....
Several times we have contacted Sondra London and requested copies of the stories sent to her by Gerard Schaefer that she had omitted from the Killer Fiction book. No response was ever received, However this article states...

Sondra London bore the brunt of Schaefer’s malice. He sued her three times (all dismissed) and tried to have her arrested for stealing his literary works valued “in excess of $110,000” (likewise dismissed). London fought back, petitioning for a protective order, weighting her brief with 500 pages of Schaefer’s death threats and murder confessions. Finally barred from writing to London directly, Schaefer penned a furious letter to her publisher on December 5, 1993. Referring to a fellow convict—”an Anointed Fourth Prince of the Hand of Death”—he raved: “All I need to do is ask this gentleman to have SL and her kid murdered and it would be done. SL is alive at this moment because I choose to allow it.”

Lawsuits are a matter of public records, so we should be able to get a copy of her brief which apparently does contain more of his confessions.(If I am not mistaken the pages contained in that brief should be covered under the freedom of information act) I will start researching in the morning to find the procedure needed to obtain a copy.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/gerard_schaefer/9.html
 
Well...today turned out to be exhausting, physically but especially emotionally...Civil lawsuits are destroyed after 5 years. However since HOPE is free, and FAITH is abundant I will just have to go a different route. So I am once again writing Sondra London and once again I will explain to her that I am not interested in this info for publishing purposes, that we need it strictly for attempting to make an ID from it, and perhaps locate her burial site...so wish me luck....And Debbie if ya are up there and smiling down...we love and miss you sis.
 
SSA good luck with getting the needed info.

Did Schaefer use an attorney for the civil action?

Did Schaefer have a next of kin? Do they know anything about his crimes? Good friend other than your Dad? Anyone who may have known something or who may have gotten his papers and other belongings after his death?
 
SSA good luck with getting the needed info.

Did Schaefer use an attorney for the civil action?

Did Schaefer have a next of kin? Do they know anything about his crimes? Good friend other than your Dad? Anyone who may have known something or who may have gotten his papers and other belongings after his death?

I am not sure on the civil filings, I located info on the trutv article that stated he filed a lawsuit against Sondra London, and that she responded with a 500 page brief that included many of his short stories and death threats. He wrote short stories about all his murders, he simply changed the girls name. We have all read his book, and that only contains a few of his writings. Since he was not married at the time of his death, his things would have went to his mothers..to the best of my knowledge....she is most probably deceased by now....and since like most mothers, she never gave up on his innocence she most likely destroyed any that she had.
I am not sure of his friends, and since my father is deceased, I am not sure of anyone outside of prison who would know. The man I knew never really seemed to "fit in". But when killing people is your hobby then that would make it harder.
I spent most of the afternoon typing out a request to Sondra London, for as long as his story has any $$$ value, one can bet she has not destroyed them. I also sent emails to Americas Most wanted, Oprah, and a couple other news type programs....so hopefully if we keep trying one of them will run a story. Thank You All for taking the time to care, it makes days like this a little easier to take.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/gerard_schaefer/9.html
 
I spent a long time last night researching original newspaper articles. Beside his mother and father, he had a sister.

Fort Lauderdale Sun Sentinel, December 13, 1995
Sara K, Schaefer's younger sister, said the family is having a hard time dealing with her brother's death: "Our mother hasn't stopped crying. And my daughter, who was only a child at the time, cried so much she broke out - she got a rash from crying so much."
McIlwain is now an investigator for the Martin County State Attorney's Office, where he keeps a file on the Schaefer case in a closet. In the file are many of the writings that police seized from Schaefer's mother's Fort Lauderdale home on Southwest 34th Avenue during the 1973 search.
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The writings, which Schaefer maintained were a combination of fantasy and fiction, described the sexual torture, mutilation and execution-style murder of women. The handwritten manuscripts go into great detail about the victims and where and how they were killed.
Police and prosecutors have argued the writings reflect reality.
"I believe his accounts are accurate depictions of what he did to his victims," McIlwain said. "He's writing about the crimes he carried out."
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/19..._young-women-life-sentences-schaefer-s-mother

I snipped the sister's last name. It's in the article at the link.

SSA, have you read the edition of KF released after Schaefer died? Some of his letters to SL are contained in the later edition.
 
Good luck getting information out of Sandra London, SSA. She sounds like a parasite, but maybe she will have some glimmer of conscience and give you any info she has.
 
SL should have had an attorney and it is quite likely that any discovery is in the attorney's files.

So, what can we do with that do you suppose? We need some kind of carrot for London. Or how about McIlwain, the investigator in bessies post?
 
First let me say I am sorry if my answers to anyone became short. I try to stay away from his videos, for everytime I see him sitting there with that smug smile of his face, laughing as he talks about cutting a girl up and feeding her to the sharks, I become totally overwhelmed.
I do have a drawing of my sisters ring on this pc, and if I did it correctly it should be attached to this post......

So this is an aquamarine ring with stones around part of it? The sketch is awesome, but I was having trouble reading the words.
 
So this is an aquamarine ring with stones around part of it? The sketch is awesome, but I was having trouble reading the words.

Yes the center set in the ring ws aquamarine. (March birthstone ring) Which I know made no sense since Debbie was a Virgo ( born in Sept.)The bottom had have 4 flower like petals, all were white and each one had a blue dot
 

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