FL FL - Mabel Andrews, 16, Orlando, 16 Jan 1976

[Two for the road]

RBBM, it is absolutely possible that the same father fathered two pregnancies. I am not sure where you are getting that information. In usual pregnancies, the corpus luteum that feeds the developing embryo turns off the body's ovulation function so not further eggs are released to be fertilized. But sometimes that doesn't happen and another egg is fertilized and implants.

It is also a possible scenario that one baby was born premature due to many of the various complications that arise in twin pregnancy OR equally plausible, the dates were written down wrong. After all, back then all they had were paper records subject to human error.

In any case, it absolutely does not automatically mean that her mother slept around.

It sounds like the DNA extracted from the Jane Doe differs from the DNA from her family.

the two possible types of DNA that can be tested are Nucleal and Mitochondrial. They took a blood sample from her brother and a mouth swab from her sister. Mitochondrial can only come from her sister.

Why would they not match? Could it be that maybe the siblings are unaware that they are actually not related? If Mabel's mother has passed, then the only MtDNA to test against would be her sister.

But here's where it gets weird... her fraternal twin sister was born a month AFTER Mabel. Meaning her mother gave birth to Mabel but continued to gestate her twin. Now thats not possible if they share both mother and father. if they have half siblings, it's possible but super rare. It means she became pregnant started sleeping with someone else and got pregnant by another man as well. But like I said, that's RARE.

I wonder if after looking into it, maybe Mabel's sister isn't her sister by birth. Maybe something was forged? It was the 70s, so it's a possibility.

But here's the thing. They have dental records for Mabel and as per the public access records they have been entered for comparison. Does this mean that Jane Doe had no teeth when found? Strange because they clearly found a skull or else how would they have noticed the asymmetrical nose?

This is such a sad and strange case...

Justice for whoever killed Mabel and Nancy.

Both were known to frequent the green parrot bay club where Nancy was last seen. Both have reports stating that they were known to both get rides from men at these clubs.

I am surprised that law enforcement hasn't started looking for a serial killer as this is what it looks like....

 

[ms---alli]

Bumping for Mabel.

 

[Aurora90]

Reposting what I said in another thread.

Both Mabel Andrews and Nancy Davis were last seen leaving the green parrot bay club in Orlando. They were both last seen getting into a red car with an older male. Both were known to get rides from older men. I believe this is absolutely the case of a serial killer.

All it takes it a bit of detective work. Who was known to frequent the club at that time with a red sportcar that would give rides to younger women.

I cant find it now, but there was an article in I believe the Orlando Sentinel when the club closed because it was infamous for its rough crowd. I wish this was taken more seriously...

Bumping for Mabel.

 

[Senora_Smith]

This Jane Doe was found next to Jones Highschool in Orlando, Florida. That is the Highschool Mabel Louise Andrews attended.
Her named might have been spelled Mable.

Mable is reported missing with the Orlando Police Department in Florida. Jane Doe is a case with the Orange County Florida Sheriff's Office.
Orlando, Florida is a city in Orange County Florida.

Jane Doe 1977

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

Mabel Louise Andrews

Mabel Louise Andrews – The Charley Project

3823DFFL - Mabel Louise Andrews

Mabel Andrews, 16: Conflicting Reports About 1970s Missing Person Case

Mabel Andrews was just a teen when she vanished from Florida, but over the years, there have been conflicting report about her disappearance.

ourblackgirls.com

 

[Diane Redfern]

I wonder if Eddie Mosley or Samuel Little were interviewed about this case.

 

[ninaki2000]

I am right here in Orlando and have been trying for the police to listen because the shirt found with the Jane Doe found at Lake Mann is identical to the one Mabel Andrews wore in the missing flyer...did you also know that her older brother, Tommy Lee Andrews was the first person convicted with DNA for rape? I believe he might have had something to do with his sister's death, why else would he try to get her declared dead...unless he knew she was dead...

 

[Aurora90]

I am right here in Orlando and have been trying for the police to listen because the shirt found with the Jane Doe found at Lake Mann is identical to the one Mabel Andrews wore in the missing flyer...did you also know that her older brother, Tommy Lee Andrews was the first person convicted with DNA for rape? I believe he might have had something to do with his sister's death, why else would he try to get her declared dead...unless he knew she was dead...

It wasn't her brother. He was the one who asked his wife while he is in jail to continue bugging the officers to look into his sister's case.

Both Mabel and Nancy were last seen at the Parrot Bay club and last seen leaving with an older male in a red car. Nancy was found right next to this jane doe who ABSOLUTELY is Mabel. Even the toe specifics match up, and the nostril issue match as well as the shirt.

I have spoken with Mabel's sister's daughter. The family is also very certain that this is her. As per O'Shaugnessy's response clearly Law Enforcement also think that this is her. They said the DNA does not match but they CANT EXPLAIN WHY. . They said they refuse to rule Mabel out despite DNA not being a match. That is how certain they are that this jane doe is Mabel. How often do they say "DNA does not match but we still think this is her?" NEVER. Something fishy is going on here.

I AM 10000% PERCENT SURE THAT JANE DOE IS MABEL. The family and Law Enforcement agree. I think something happened with the obtaining of DNA or something because they can't officially confirm it.

I WORRY WE WILL NEVER GET OFFICIAL CONFIRMATION ON WHAT IS CLEARLY A MATCH.

Furthermore, There clearly was a serial killer who would give young girls rides home in his red car, was known to frequent the parrot bay club in paramore and would kill these young women. I wish police did more at the time. I hope on day folks who were frequent visitors of the club can recall a man you would give young girls rides in his red car....

 

[PayrollNerd]

I'm not an expert on DNA. Isn't the DNA obtained by LE not as all encompassing, as the DNA one would do with a public provider? (meaning Ancestry, 23andMe, MyHeritage) What they have in CODIS isn't as broad, for lack of a better word, as what the DNA companies test for. If they have evidence, remains or something they could extract DNA from, it seems reasonable that they'd use a test that is more inclusive. Then upload it to GEDmatch or ftDNA so the genetic genealogy can be done to confirm her identity. JMO

 

[Aurora90]

I'm not an expert on DNA. Isn't the DNA obtained by LE not as all encompassing, as the DNA one would do with a public provider? (meaning Ancestry, 23andMe, MyHeritage) What they have in CODIS isn't as broad, for lack of a better word, as what the DNA companies test for. If they have evidence, remains or something they could extract DNA from, it seems reasonable that they'd use a test that is more inclusive. Then upload it to GEDmatch or ftDNA so the genetic genealogy can be done to confirm her identity. JMO

Agreed. Maybe @othram could help with this one? It is very clear that this is Jane Doe is Mabel Andrews, I wonder what is wrong with the DNA aspect that is stopping this case from getting resolved.

I am always thinking of Mabel and she deserves justice.

 

[JeniDecker]

It wasn't her brother. He was the one who asked his wife while he is in jail to continue bugging the officers to look into his sister's case.

Both Mabel and Nancy were last seen at the Parrot Bay club and last seen leaving with an older male in a red car. Nancy was found right next to this jane doe who ABSOLUTELY is Mabel. Even the toe specifics match up, and the nostril issue match as well as the shirt.

I have spoken with Mabel's sister's daughter. The family is also very certain that this is her. As per O'Shaugnessy's response clearly Law Enforcement also think that this is her. They said the DNA does not match but they CANT EXPLAIN WHY. . They said they refuse to rule Mabel out despite DNA not being a match. That is how certain they are that this jane doe is Mabel. How often do they say "DNA does not match but we still think this is her?" NEVER. Something fishy is going on here.

I AM 10000% PERCENT SURE THAT JANE DOE IS MABEL. The family and Law Enforcement agree. I think something happened with the obtaining of DNA or something because they can't officially confirm it.

I WORRY WE WILL NEVER GET OFFICIAL CONFIRMATION ON WHAT IS CLEARLY A MATCH.

Furthermore, There clearly was a serial killer who would give young girls rides home in his red car, was known to frequent the parrot bay club in paramore and would kill these young women. I wish police did more at the time. I hope on day folks who were frequent visitors of the club can recall a man you would give young girls rides in his red car....

Nancy was last seen outside the Wooden Nickel near Parramore, according to this article. Do you know where the Parrot Bay Club was located? The report's I found associated with Mabel say that she "frequented" the Green Parrot, but the brother Tommie had at one point indicated that she'd left their home to go to a neighborhood park and never returned. I don't see anywhere that suggests either girl were last seen at the "Parrot Bay Club". Where was this club supposed to be located, does anyone know?

Also, while the car described as the one Nancy last got into was red with a black top, I don't see anything about any vehicle Mabel might have gotten into. I don't think anyone even saw her get into a vehicle.

I do think the Orlando Jane Doe (1977) found in Lake Mann is quite possibly Mabel. Note the 2016 report that even LE uses the phrasing "which is believed to be Mabel L. Andrews."

Not sure how to explain why the DNA might not match, however the way the letters were worded by some of the agencies doing the testing (found upthread here), the use of the word "sensitive" suggested to me it might be something like: Could she have been a foster child or have come into the family in some other way and the "twin" was told they were "twins" for whatever reason (families often have secrets) but they weren't. That would explain the odities in dates of birth, IMO.

I've sent a records request to see if they've got anything more current than the reports that can already be found publicly. I do think Nancy, Mabel, and the Lake County Jane Doe case should all be looked at fresh with the perspective that they could be related. Despite some differences, there are also quite a few similarities.

 

[JeniDecker]

Another quick thing I wanted to mention about the Orlando Jane Doe (1977) that the general consensus believes is very likely Mabel Andrews: I went to pull up the early newspaper reports and one thing stood out. They were reporting that the victim "may have had a miscarriage at one time." I'm not sure what physiological clues a body would give if the decedent had a previous miscarriage, or if this factors into the questions discussed upthread about the DNA in any way.

 

[JeniDecker]

I just noticed that this is an active case happening right now. George Girtman is in the middle of working a plea deal for numerous rapes and attacks from prior decades in this same area. He preyed on women and children (they say as young as six) in this area. Old newspaper records indicate his address at the time was 813 Lake Mann Gardens, so he lived right there where Mabel and Nancy were found. It's possible they're trying to connect him to these cases, currently. The attached article is from Jan. 1977. He was arrested within days of when Mabel was last seen. He's known as the "Malibu Rapist." The truly upsetting thing is that he went to jail in May of 1977, was sentenced to 45 years, got out in 1984 and continued raping and assaulting.

'Malibu rapist' facing more charges

The Malibu rapist is back in Central Florida to face charges in a slew of new cases. He's newly charged with attacking 15 women in the mid to late 1980s and early 1990s.

www.wesh.com

 

[JeniDecker]

Wow. Check timestamp 22:44 on this Orlando Press conference about the George Girtman cases. One journalist asked about Tommie Lee Andrews (Mabel's brother), who apparently also has a current case involving multiple rapes. They pivoted quickly away from that question.

LIVE: Orlando Police discusses new charges for 'Malibu rapist' George Girtman, already convicted of a half-dozen rapes. | LIVE: Orlando Police discusses new charges for 'Malibu rapist' George Girtman, already convicted of a half-dozen rapes. | By W

LIVE: Orlando Police discusses new charges for 'Malibu rapist' George Girtman, already convicted of a half-dozen rapes.

www.facebook.com

 

[ninaki2000]

It wasn't her brother. He was the one who asked his wife while he is in jail to continue bugging the officers to look into his sister's case.

Both Mabel and Nancy were last seen at the Parrot Bay club and last seen leaving with an older male in a red car. Nancy was found right next to this jane doe who ABSOLUTELY is Mabel. Even the toe specifics match up, and the nostril issue match as well as the shirt.

I have spoken with Mabel's sister's daughter. The family is also very certain that this is her. As per O'Shaugnessy's response clearly Law Enforcement also think that this is her. They said the DNA does not match but they CANT EXPLAIN WHY. . They said they refuse to rule Mabel out despite DNA not being a match. That is how certain they are that this jane doe is Mabel. How often do they say "DNA does not match but we still think this is her?" NEVER. Something fishy is going on here.

I AM 10000% PERCENT SURE THAT JANE DOE IS MABEL. The family and Law Enforcement agree. I think something happened with the obtaining of DNA or something because they can't officially confirm it.

I WORRY WE WILL NEVER GET OFFICIAL CONFIRMATION ON WHAT IS CLEARLY A MATCH.

Furthermore, There clearly was a serial killer who would give young girls rides home in his red car, was known to frequent the parrot bay club in paramore and would kill these young women. I wish police did more at the time. I hope on day folks who were frequent visitors of the club can recall a man you would give young girls rides in his red car....

I'm actually amazed that I'm not the only one feeling this strong about the Jane Doe being Mabel...I recently asked the ME if they had shown the shirt to the family to see if Mabel had a shirt like this...she said...and I quote:"Even if the family indicated they recognized the shirt as one worn by Mabel, what then? Things to consider: How prevalent was that shirt in the 70s? Could she have let someone borrow it, or thrown it away, or left it somewhere and someone else grabbed it? Recognizing a shirt is not means for an identification....this is the answer I received...I'm curious about the comment made by someone on here about having spoken to somebody in the family.I had been thinking about trying to find where they are and talk to them...I would think that they might have seen pictures of the shirt and the bracelet...but I tread very lightly when it is about talking to family members...it is an ethical dilemma for me...

 

[ninaki2000]

I forgot to mention that I had called the Sheriffs Dept again...the conversation went well until I mentioned that the ME stated DNA was not a match. At that moment the detective stated:"oh, then don't bother, if the ME already did a DNA test and it wasn't a match then it isn't the missing person..." I was a bit stunned since she seemed interested before...but now our conversation was over...at one point she said..."there is no conspiracy going on here"...even though I had not said anything like that...I just kept insisting and asking more questions...

 

[ninaki2000]

I'm not an expert on DNA. Isn't the DNA obtained by LE not as all encompassing, as the DNA one would do with a public provider? (meaning Ancestry, 23andMe, MyHeritage) What they have in CODIS isn't as broad, for lack of a better word, as what the DNA companies test for. If they have evidence, remains or something they could extract DNA from, it seems reasonable that they'd use a test that is more inclusive. Then upload it to GEDmatch or ftDNA so the genetic genealogy can be done to confirm her identity. JMO

I agree with you...I believe Codis to be restricted as well, and the fact that we as civilians don't have access to it. The way the ME stated it sounded like the Codis was the perfect matchmaker...I don't know, but I have a feeling...specifically about this case...that they are hiding something...something they don't want the public to know or maybe they are covering something up...
Don't get me wrong...I really do NOT believe in conspiracy theories but I have hit a brick wall with this case...neither the local police department, the sheriffs department nor the ME seem to want to listen to my theory...I even went as far as involving the commissioner for the area where both girls were found and I contacted the news...I think this weekend I will go to the lake where both girls were found and I plan on going to the location where the Green Parrot used to be...btw...somebody asked about the location...I have it written down somewhere and will add it here once I find it....thank you all for listening...

 

[ninaki2000]

Reposting what I said in another thread.

Both Mabel Andrews and Nancy Davis were last seen leaving the green parrot bay club in Orlando. They were both last seen getting into a red car with an older male. Both were known to get rides from older men. I believe this is absolutely the case of a serial killer.

All it takes it a bit of detective work. Who was known to frequent the club at that time with a red sportcar that would give rides to younger women.

I cant find it now, but there was an article in I believe the Orlando Sentinel when the club closed because it was infamous for its rough crowd. I wish this was taken more seriously...

Bumping for Mabel.

Interestingly, I read about the person who had been arrested on several rape charges back in 1977...being called the "Malibu Rapist" like in Chevy Malibu? Maybe it was red with a black top?

 

[ninaki2000]

Mabel and the California UID side by side. I think you're onto something here. Timeframe works, not a lot more than that to go on.

She has been ruled out on NamUs

 

[Senora_Smith]

Reposting what I said in another thread.

Both Mabel Andrews and Nancy Davis were last seen leaving the green parrot bay club in Orlando. They were both last seen getting into a red car with an older male. Both were known to get rides from older men. I believe this is absolutely the case of a serial killer.

All it takes it a bit of detective work. Who was known to frequent the club at that time with a red sportcar that would give rides to younger women.

I cant find it now, but there was an article in I believe the Orlando Sentinel when the club closed because it was infamous for its rough crowd. I wish this was taken more seriously...

Bumping for Mabel.

Is this the article?

OWNER OF PARRAMORE’S GREEN PARROT FEARS CITY WILL CLOSE BAR’S DOORS

The Green Parrot bar, its stucco and wood walls painted to reflect its name, has been serving up beer and wine in the downtrodden Parramore area for 40 years. It has survived segregation, construct…

www.orlandosentinel.com

 

[Aurora90]

Got a response from Orlando Florida:

Good afternoon,

I have responded to a number of people who have inquired on these two cases over the past few years. We are not trying to be difficult in our response, but currently our hands, as well as that of law enforcement, are tied. While I cannot disclose all of the details and circumstances of the comparison/investigation, at this time the DNA comparison between the family of MP Andrews and our unidentified case #77-0043 was not a match. The circumstantial information is very compelling which is why we havent completely ruled them out. But, based on the DNA results, we cannot currently link them together.

Regards,

Ashley Shaughnessy
Forensic Services Supervisor
District 9 Medical Examiner's Office
2350 E Michigan St
Orlando, FL 32806
(407)836-9408

I wish we had more info as to what exactly this means. @othram is likely the only hope of solving this case.