FL - Terrorist Discussion/49 Killed in Orlando at Nightclub Pulse

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SweetT said:
No not in my opinion. You don't go and increase the flow a day after shootings IMO if your worried about keeping people calm etc. Also DHS wouldn't be the Public, so no reason to take those words away from them IMO. We can't stop terrorists if we won't admit who they are and what they are. JMO
I know one way to vet these people is that we should have them shake hands with a woman upon entering the US, if they wont do it, they don't need to enter. I'm sure I can think of other things.
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One of our nation core values is freedom of religion tho. We can say peopleof all religions do terrible crimes. It would be the same as bringing a pork platter for some of the jewish fatih, or require bible people to stand naked with , in a group, of 5 other naked men, or whatever group wont drink force 5 shots of something etc etc
 
CARIIS said:
One of our nation core values is freedom of religion tho. We can say peopleof all religions do terrible crimes. It would be the same as bringing a pork platter for some of the jewish fatih, or require bible people to stand naked with , in a group, of 5 other naked men, or whatever group wont drink force 5 shots of something etc etc
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There's nothing in the Constitution that promises to allow into the US people who follow a religious-political philosophy dedicated to destroying the United States.

There's nothing in the Constitution that promises to allow people who are already in the United States to practice a religious-political philosophy dedicated to destroying the United States.

Our Constitution doesn't require that the US commit national suicide.
 
K_Z said:
Sonjay, you are exactly right about Yamamoto-- he was very reluctant and fully expected Japan to lose the war. FDR was also very reticent to speak in a hawkish manner or get into the war-- yet he came out very strongly immediately after the Pearl Harbor attack, and strongly led the U.S. to victory. I was just at the PH memorial again 2-3 weeks ago, and it's always good to revisit our history. It was almost 4 years from the PH attack until we decisively ended the war with the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

September 11 was our generation's Pearl Harbor. It should have been a gigantic wake up call. Yet here we are-- 16 years later, and mired in a far worse situation with african and middle east islamic terrorism than in 2001.
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Snipped & BBM.

If Sept. 11 didn't wake us up, I fear we are well on the road to national suicide. More people were killed in the Sept. 11 Islamic terrorist attacks than were killed in the Pearl Harbor attack! And yet.... as you said.... here we are.
 
K_Z said:
What I'm concerned about is the attention span of the general public. I fear that the tragedy of the little boy killed by the alligator, a horrific accident, will persist longer in people's minds than the horrific intentional massacre of 49 souls, and the shooting of another 50+. The media feeds into that, IMO.

People are not yet heartbroken "enough", or sad enough, or angry enough, to begin the very hard work needed to solve the problem of islamic terrorism in America, IMO. We are just not there YET, as a nation-- unbelievably. We are not yet united in our resolve as a nation to fix this (which I believe is absolutely solvable). We will eventually get there, IMO, but we have a ways to go yet.

Meanwhile, we wait with anxiety for the next attack. Because we all know there WILL be a "next one". The public has exactly *no* confidence that authorities are getting a handle on this, IMO-- something the majority of the left and right both agree on.

Right now, we can't prevent the next attack. On some level, most of us know this, IMO. And we all express this anxiety differently-- some make excuses for the attackers, some engage in hope and wishful thinking, some pray, some distract with obtuse comparisons and elite oratory, some are realists, frustrated with the official denial of the obvious. (I'm the latter, lol! In case it's not obvious!)

(For the record, I'm ex-military, and I have traveled fairly extensively in the middle east, and some other muslim theocratic countries. And I'm a woman, so it wasn't exactly a picnic for me.)
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Thank you for your service!
 
(BBM)

sonjay said:
There's nothing in the Constitution that promises to allow into the US people who follow a religious-political philosophy dedicated to destroying the United States.

There's nothing in the Constitution that promises to allow people who are already in the United States to practice a religious-political philosophy dedicated to destroying the United States.

Our Constitution doesn't require that the US commit national suicide.
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Again, again, and again; because someone is Muslim DOES NOT mean they are dedicated to destroying the United States!

sonjay said:
Snipped & BBM.

If Sept. 11 didn't wake us up, I fear we are well on the road to national suicide. More people were killed in the Sept. 11 Islamic terrorist attacks than were killed in the Pearl Harbor attack! And yet.... as you said.... here we are.
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And remember who's watch Sept. 11 happened on!

Honestly, I believe in being vigilant and doing everything we can, preemptively and defensively, that is consistent with our American core values, to prevent and/or respond to terrorism; however, as far as fear goes, I'm far more afraid of the ideology being expressed here in regards to how we treat people simply for being Muslim.
 
sonjay said:
Snipped & BBM.

If Sept. 11 didn't wake us up, I fear we are well on the road to national suicide. More people were killed in the Sept. 11 Islamic terrorist attacks than were killed in the Pearl Harbor attack! And yet.... as you said.... here we are.
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We have been brainwashed over the recent decades by mainstream media that nationalism (or unity, or partriotism) is only appropriate when we are showing support for victims. It's ok for us to come together as a nation to support the victims, but "abhorrent" and "bigoted" and "racist" to hold the perpetrators responsible and accountable for the carnage. We are "permitted" to mourn, but not to become angry or resolved, or take any decisive action, IMO.

Part of this national attitude of patriotism and nationalism being discouraged is the newfangled ideal of "globalism", and attitudes of extreme tolerance and coddling for illegal immigrants, and legal immigrants who are unable to assimilate their thinking to an open and free society. There is no allegiance or loyalty among illegal immigrants and immigrants who are unable to assimilate their thinking, and again-- there is zealous glee to label and shame anyone as bigots and racists who oppose illegal immigrants and "immigrants who are unable to assimilate their thinking."

IMO, America has an extreme problem with tolerance. We have become far TOO tolerant of things which are destroying us and our freedoms. We need to practice judicious and carefully considered intolerance, IMO. We must not tolerate radical islamic terrorism, or anyone who supports or encourages any aspect of it. IMO.
 
RANCH said:
If our own government is saying that the Orlando killer was simply a mentally disturbed person and not a terrorist how are they planning in stopping the next attack?

With that kind of reasoning they will not stop another attack. What are they going to propose? Tax the rich and spend the money on mental health programs? That's not going to work.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-florida-shooting-idUSKCN0Z50N4
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Mentally disturbed based on the ex-wife saying so. I'm still married to mine and I can tell you he is mentally ill. :/
Odd to me how an self-professed Islamic killer of LBGT is being blamed on conservative republications. Go figure. We can handle it.
 
nomoresorrow said:
(BBM)



Again, again, and again; because someone is Muslim DOES NOT mean they are dedicated to destroying the United States!



And remember who's watch Sept. 11 happened on!

Honestly, I believe in being vigilant and doing everything we can, preemptively and defensively, that is consistent with our American core values, to prevent and/or respond to terrorism; however, as far as fear goes, I'm far more afraid of the ideology being expressed here in regards to how we treat people simply for being Muslim.
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And who's watch did fort hood, chattanooga, san bernardino, boston marathon, ,Zaim Farouq Abdul-Malik attack on 4 ny policemen, attack on the draw Mohammad contest, and orlando. Who's watch did all of those happen on?
 
Everyday Grace said:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/06/18/us/omar-mateen-documents.html
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I wish the teacher who responded to the father about her class had handled it a different way. It is important to engage parents as partners. She could have asked to meet with the father and discuss methods to deal with the difficulties OM was having rather than fire back that OM was at fault. I always asked what the parents did at hone that worked eith their child. That seemed to get parents to relax and admit they had struggles as well with the child.

As a retired teacher I truly believe if schools were different, we could affect a lot of these lives in a positive fashion, All those suspensions did not do a thing but make him more angry. And it sounds like with a report where he got slapped in the face by the father in front of people, that he may have gotten more abuse at home.

We may not be able to change the parent's behavior, but at school we can demonstrate and engage in different behavior. It is not coddling. Giving children alternatives to violence and behavior that is calling out for help can change lives.
 
Tillicum said:
It feels wrong to me too but they're going to use it whether or not the full transcripts are released IMO. You said "without the benefit" so in a way they would benefit from it, right? Do we want them repeating his exact words in their propaganda? I have mixed feelings about it.
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Much of it we will know. He is a big bad ISIS terrorist. That is what he is going to claim!

he claimed Osama his uncle
he claimed boton brothers were his pals
he claimed heknew this suicide bomber

all lies

A law enforcement official said the gunman increased his consumption of a variety of jihadist propaganda, such as beheading videos two weeks before the attack.

Before that the source says his consumption was infrequent and he certainly wasn't immersing himself in it. The official described Mateen as an "angry and violent man who in the last few weeks started watching ISIS videos."


http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/15/us/orl...r-omar-mateen/

That is why he got who he is doing this for all meeded - he looked at some you tube stuff for a couple of days while manic imo
 
CARIIS said:
Much of it we will know. He is a big bad ISIS terrorist. That is what he is going to claim!

he claimed Osama his uncle
he claimed boton brothers were his pals
he claimed heknew this suicide bomber

all lies

A law enforcement official said the gunman increased his consumption of a variety of jihadist propaganda, such as beheading videos two weeks before the attack.

Before that the source says his consumption was infrequent and he certainly wasn't immersing himself in it. The official described Mateen as an "angry and violent man who in the last few weeks started watching ISIS videos."


http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/15/us/orl...r-omar-mateen/

That is why he got who he is doing this for all meeded - he looked at some you tube stuff for a couple of days while manic imo
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That is not a lie.

The FBI interviewed Orlando, Florida, shooter Omar Mateen when it was investigating Moner Mohammad Abu-Salha, an American suicide bomber in Syria, because they were casual acquaintances who attended the same mosque, the head of the Senate Intelligence Committee said on Tuesday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-florida-shooting-bomber-idUSKCN0Z02OG
 
he forgot to use the word allah. Ever. He used the Western, American,European term , more than once G.O.D.


Just hit me. Has any other radicalzied ISIS terrorist gotten all their capatalistic, materialistic things in order (money, housing,) or gone out shopping for some fine jewelery?

Suicdal folks do that quite often?

I found that odd. In the first Paris attack (where the guys are in the street ) they were yeling alah alah alah like that , then before they killed em they did some alah alah alah.

In the second Paris attack at the Batican witnesses all over reported that all of them were stating it . IIRC one of the ones right before he blew himself also

!
 
I'm reminded of the Ebola outbreak and the steps that were taken to protect our citizens from the deadly, rampaging illness. Those coming from the countries with documented cases weren't permitted to come in and expose us until they were examined and tested to determine whether they were a risk to the citizens of our country. Those already here who had recently been in the infected countries were also checked out because it was possible they were unknowingly exposed and carrying Ebola here before we were aware of the dangerous possibilities. That didn't mean that we were insisting that everyone from those countries absolutely, positively, without a doubt had Ebola. What it meant was that the possibilities and dangers were too high to risk the health and safety of the people of the United States just because it caused a temporary hardship on those who were more likely to be carrying (or already carried) Ebola here. It didn't mean we didn't care about the difficulties and hardships they had to endure, it was necessary and the only way to fight Ebola here.

In the same way I think most of us realize that not all muslims would ever become involved in terrorism against our country but unfortunately there is such a thing as radical islamic terrorism and it is killing our citizens. In the same way we protected the US from Ebola, I think we need to be protected from radical islamic terrorism. How can we do that without invading the rights of muslims and causing temporary hardships on them? How can we do it without being accused of being judgmental, bigots, racists and islamaphobic? :tomato:
 
Ron Hopper fbi, Killer identified himself as an Islamic soldier.

Missing are any references to ISIS or the Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. The ISIS chief is the figure whom Mateen likely pledged allegiance to, twice during the 911 call, and at least once during negotiations.

"I pledge allegiance to [omitted] may God protect him [in Arabic], on behalf of [omitted]," Mateen told the 911 dispatcher.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/2...d-orlando-gunmans-911-calls.html?intcmp=hpbt3
 
popsicle said:
Troy Campbell ‏@TroyLeeCampbell [video=twitter;744909391384690688]https://twitter.com/TroyLeeCampbell/status/744909391384690688[/video]
#FBI says #Pulse shooter spoke with #Orlando crisis negotiators by phone 3 times- totaling about 30 min. @news6wkmg
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Thirty minutes total. That's a lot of time with FBI that he never once mentioned his anti-gay motive.

Wonder how many minutes, of the thirty, are government censored.

Sounds like he had no interest in talking about what he did and spent most of his time talking about Allah and making terroristic threats.
 
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