FOUND DECEASED - WA - Lindsey Baum, 10, McCleary, 26 June 2009 #2

How do your direct message somebody? Does that mean everybody can see or respond to it? It's more personal than I care to share with anybody else.

Thanks for the recommendations. I've read a number of the books the shows are based on--I'm more of a fingerprints-and-circumstances person than a profiler type, but that whole area of investigation is fascinating.

You can click on the name or avatar of the person you want to talk to. A box with their information should pop up; "start a conversation" is one of the options. It's entirely private to the people you choose.
 
Okay: Despite some errors I heard in this podcast it was worth listening to if you have the time. This podcaster is Sarah Turney--not the same podcasters (Tracey Izatt and Peggy Simmons) from Truth in the Shadow, so different perspectives. Wait till you hear the McCleary City Council's meeting. Good God. This podcaster takes on a different case each week so not as in depth in all areas but definitely new to me info.

‎Voices for Justice: Lindsey Baum on Apple Podcasts
 
Human remains found near Stampede Pass in Kittitas County
I wonder if these could be the rest of her remains?
Did you find out what happened with this case?
thank you so much for doing this, and giving us your very detailed observations about the area, I agree with you that the most recent POI does not quite fit the profile of somebody who would know this area that well, he seems more urban but I haven't really done that much more research on him. I am so glad you were safe, it does sound really treacherous and scary, I'm very much a city girl so I would have been very scared also!
I don't know. I'm from the area of the new POI--everybody around our area can't wait to get over to central and eastern WA as often as possible, especially for hunting. If they don't go to Lake Chelan for summer, they go hunting probably..or both. Just like everybody on that side of the state (and Seattle area) can't wait to get out to the WA Coast towns of Westport, Ocean Shores and Long Beach asap. A person who seems urban but who works HVAC/ductwork... meh.. The guys around here get out with their buddies or families all of their lives, especially for elk...big meat prize for the deep freeze and a bit more exciting for them than a buck. McCleary is rural, he's rural.
 
I'm wondering if there is any cell reception by the area where LB was found, or on a road leading to that area where one would have to drive. If the person has certain tendencies maybe the cell phone pings should be tracked every year near the anniversary of her going missing--like within 2-4 weeks of that time. It might lead to something. LE did take pings of all cell phones from the single tower in McCleary when LB went missing. Maybe that technique is a good one for the area of Manastash Ridge?

I see an earlier comment on this newer section of the thread saying that the remain was found off Manastash Road. Other sources seem to say it's closer to Ellensburg. KING 5 News' online page at the time of the remain being found shows a map of Manastash Road where it meets Barber Springs Road, which is pretty far west on the ridge compared to the Manastash Ridge hiking trail area, I think. More like south of Cle Elum than near Ellensburg. So, which is it? The Manastash RD area? or closer to the hiking trails where the trail books were found? They are very far apart from what I can tell on a map and probably don't connect?

The King 5 briefing article says the location was 20 miles WEST of Ellensburg.

KING 5's article also says: "On Saturday, aerials views above Manastash Road west of Ellensburg from SkyKING showed an active search in a wooded area, with ground crews and several vehicles. The Kittitas County coroner was also at the scene, which is blocked off to the public." The video in this link and as seen on TV was taken from their newscopter (SkyKing, see above).

The article also provides a map.

K-9 units search for evidence in Lindsey Baum case near Ellensburg | king5.com
 
I was distracted while listening to some parts - can one of you clarify something?

The dogs didn't seem to scent anything on Cedar where the POI lived at the time but here are my notes from the podcast. If you know the town or go onto mapquest, you could follow this along. If dogs tracked correctly, she would have gone down Maple heading East towards 3rd; BUT instead of keeping on Maple and continuing straight along, the most logical choice for her to get home quickly, the dogs turned South onto 6th, then turned onto PINE. The intersection area of Pine and Main Street is about 2 blocks north of the corner of Cedar. Both Pine, Cedar and Maple line 3rd ST (which is the main drag of town). Dogs went past the intersecting area of Pine/Main St and then chose to turn or pull out onto 3rd, heading North. If the dogs were correct, then she'd have been about 1.5 blocks from the turnoff to Mommsen (her home street). East Mommsen is only 3 blocks north of Cedar ST. Everything is smushed together. The town only had about 1400 people at the time--quick look on Wikipedia says it has about 1600 now...probably because of new housing built after Lindsey's time there.

If you look to step 7 you'll see that dogs continued onto Mommsen and then past LB's house.

It would have been no problem, regardless, to see LB on 3rd, near 3rd or anywhere near 3rd.

What confused me, and I haven't had time to research it, was the podcast's reference to air-pocketing or scent-pocketing and how that would work. They seemed to have said it could work even when somebody was in a car...?

MAR 24, 2010 –about 52:34 on recording

1) FIRST DOG “RUN”: Black pullover PAD was pulled at 647 Maple; K9 placed “neutrally” to the right of the door.

2) K9 JACK turned right and headed E on Maple at “strong working gait”

3) K9 did a “4-Corners Check” at 7th but continued going E down Maple ST

4) K9 did another 4 Corners Check at 6TH ST w/ canine opting to turn R and head S on 6th.

5) Staying on L side of road, going up a small hill, canine turned L (or E) on PINE ST

6) K9 crossed over Main (ST) to take an angled track across corner of lawn at intersection of Pine and Main St where dog exited out onto 3rd ST.

7) K9 Crossed over onto R side of roadway, turned Right onto Mommsen, stayed to R side of roadway

8) K9 continued on till reaching 470 Mommsen [PAST LB’S HOUSE] and turned L into a semi-circle gravel drive;

These aren't all of the notes but this should clear up your question, if anything can be cleared up.
 
I'm pretty new to this, but wow!

I also found this on a Grays Harbor County Superior Court case list for April 26 2018

Stephanie M. Golder v. Dale Allen Golder, domestic violence.

I wonder if this is the same Stephanie listed in the affidavit I quoted and he ended up marrying her. Wonder if she was going to turn him in so he did something to her? Wonder if they're still together?

Public records: Superior Court, April 26 | The Daily World
Nope. Divorced.
 
I was distracted while listening to some parts - can one of you clarify something?

The podcast said Lindsey babysat at a house across the street from Biecker's home? Is this the same home the scent dogs led too?
Got a response for you on about pg 9 of this thread. Don't know why it didn't seem to present properly.
 
So, on the podcast they say the guy in the gas station video had a boating type of decal or symbol on his shirt (or hat)? I honestly can't see enough definition for that to be the case. The video is too grainy on every source I look at. From what I see, his shirt may have been burgundy or brown with white/light designs, but other than that: nothing much.
 
Human remains found near Stampede Pass in Kittitas County
I wonder if these could be the rest of her remains?

I'm pretty sure that's this case: Body found near Stampede Pass identified as Snohomish County homicide victim

The Kittitas County Sheriff’s Office said the remains were those of a 49-year-old man who was a homicide victim from Snohomish County, according to a release from the sheriff’s office.

Kittitas County Coroner Nick Henderson identified the man as Justin B. Allan of Everett and said the manner of death was a homicide. Henderson said he could not release the cause of death at this time pending further investigation by Snohomish County officials.

Allan’s remains were discovered by a hiker Oct. 1 in the area about 2 miles south of Keechelus Lake, according to the sheriff’s office. At the time, Sheriff’s Inspector Chris Whitsett said it appeared the remains had been there “for some months.”
 
Hey There,
Wondering if anybody can recall a case involving the abduction of a minor, not taken by a relative, whose remains were found as far away from the location of abduction as Lindsey's remains were from McCleary (we're talking a few hours of driving over a mountain pass as the main route to the location of the remnant). The other route would be most likely South of Mount Rainier and then a different mountainous pass, and that route takes far longer to travel on a 2 lane highway with difficult curves and steep rises and drops.

I do have one story involving a relative who was a news photographer in San Francisco back in the 50's but the remains were complete and finding the suspect was fortuitous (his wife found the abduction victim's purse with a library card in it in their basement and contacted police). Our relative and his fellow reporter flew by plane or helicopter up to Northern California from San Francisco to catch the story. The suspect had a family cabin up there and everybody knew where to look. Anyway, when law enforcement was quitting and hadn't found anything, this relative and the reporter personally hunted down a local retired law enforcement guy with some hounds, and the remains were very quickly found. They had exclusive photos in return. It was on a TV show episode about reporters who went beyond to solve stuff. So, anyway, they had 1) a legit suspect, 2) physical items from the victim, 3) possible eyewitnesses who saw the young girl possibly screaming from the back of a car that ended up matching the car of the murderer, and 4) the suspect's property as a very likely spot to look.

My reason for asking if you have any memories of cases:

Things feel extremely difficult until the rest of LB's remains are located, if they will ever be. The remain found did not have signs of animal predation, or fire damage, or apparently any other damage from a murder tool, for example. So now what? There are seriously no clues recovered in any way whatsoever, regardless of the search warrants allowing access to previous POI's cars, property, land, etc. I keep watching and searching for a similar case and there is seriously nothing like it.

One thing Melissa Baum's pro bono P.I. feels is that the fragment came to lie at the place where it was first seen on the ridge due to flooding in that area in 2011.

If you know of a similar lack of evidence, the lack of an actually good suspect, and a victim taken without a trace, please share. Was the case ever resolved, and if so, how?

I was checking to see if the camp near the part of the ridge (Rider's Camp) is going to be usable for another search and it is still plagued by pine beetles (which makes searches dangerous because the trees are dying and falling everywhere). The official opinion so far is that things should be opening up again by 2022 (which of course means when the last of the snow thaws). Cross your fingers that that will be the case so a future search can start asap.
 
Does anybody have connections to the Washington state hiking community? Trying to just find out if the pine beetle infestation has cleared around Rider's Camp on Manastash and if it will be opening as they expected in 2022.
 
I took a trip to WA in October of 2020 and while driving back thru Ellensberg being the true crime junkie I am, I decided to stop by Ellensberg and see how much I could track of where she was found. I dont claim this info to be official or accurate, I am just giving my two cents as a person who decided to drive into the area of where Lindsay could have been possibly found. After following this among many other cases for years and having the unique opportunity to go to the area considering im from Texas was something that I was not going to pass up on.

Ellensberg is surprisingly a very nice college town, it was full of college students when I was there, it just reminded me of University of Texas Austin area when I was there. Locals were very nice and seemed to be very helpful. Surprisingly the case is not that alive in Ellensberg, the younger generation knows little of it or hasnt heard of it at all and the older generation has it in the bygone news folder. But Ellensberg is lively! It was antiques, amazing produce right off their backyard! and a college town feel...if you just looked at it driving on Interstate 90 you would think its just a small town..but once you actually drive in, its a party!

So from the pressers that were done by LE, the area where Lindsay was found was around a forest road that leads up to Quartz Mountain. Now keep in mind..there are many forest roads in that area. But the main road to get into any of that forest roads is Manastash Road..once you have left town..it takes a while to get up to Manastash Road...this road is lined with farms and nothing else..and its isolating..eventually the last stop on Manastash Road is the Lazy F Camp & Retreat center...after which this road turns into NF-31 leading up to more and more forest roads.

I was already nervous once I had left Manastash Road and started going up NF-31..believe me its not for the faint of heart. Please dont attempt to drive on this road in later afternoon or especially around sunset, unless you know what you are doing, there is no road...there is nothing but loose jagged rocks and im talking very loose jagged sharp rocks and just major cliff on the gravel road. Also hope that noone is coming from the other side because there is not enough room for two vehicles to pass. The ONLY WAY this road can be accessed if 4wheel drive with offroad tires or ATVs or walking...which I would strongly suggest not to do. Everything LE said was accruate in the pressers...this NF-31 leads to more isolated forest roads with no phone signal and only prayers if you get lose. Its a very dangerous landscape. Looking up youtube videos of Manastash Ridge will give you a better idea of the area...actually Manastash Ridge is quite calm compared to what it takes to go up there. On my way I encountered nothing but one or two hunters. With the sun going down fast and me not having offroad tires I decided to go back down..going up into deeper and denser forest roads (google maps will give you an idea) would have not been a good decision considering I was alone. The area is actually quite eerie and calm.

If you are able to make it all the way down NF-31 it then turns into NF-3100, from what I found the scene was somewhere between NF-3100 and NF-3104. It was quite surreal to try to get up as far as I could. But being a female and alone with a regular SUV..I decided to turn around..yes I know I should not have gone alone..but curiosity got the best of me. This is what I feel convinced about after visiting this area.

1) its a guy
2) He is a HUNTER NO DOUBT!
3) Owns an offroad vehicle and knows the area very very very well
4) Could be an Ellensberg local
5) He HAS ABSOLUTELY BEEN IN AND AROUND ELLENSBERG BEFORE especially the Manastash Ridge area and knows exactly how to get up there

you cannot transport anything up there by just renting a car or driving a stock car, if you guys look up videos of getting to Manastash Ridge you will know what im talking about. This guy knew EXACTLY where to go after doing what he did. No one other than avid hunters in and around Ellensberg area will know these roads..you have to have BEEN THERE BEFORE to get there and know where to go..This is not a place anyone would give a second look to if you were driving down the highway and even if you did go into town...you would NOT KNOW how to get up to Forest road NF-31 or know it exists unless you had been there before.

Going there really changed my perspective on the case. I am not going to say whether the latest arrest is valid or not....i dont think it is honestly...the guy is a hunter and he knows where to go and very very VERY VERY familiar with Ellensberg. No one would have even noticed him go in and out..if he encountered any other hunters on the way they wouldn't have given him a second look. RIP

Thank you very much for the interesting post!

It is not difficult to get to Ellensburg from Western WA simply because it sits on I-90. The road is fast and straight. Ellensburg is advertised as the place to hunt for blue opals. It is well-known. University. Lots of people pass by. Certain drug traffic, too.

Not so McCleary. We have been to Tacoma and further, many times, but who, and why, would go to McCleary unless he was a local? Furthermore, one has to be a local not to be noticed in that tiny place.

But what drew my interest was your statement that the abductor/murderer was a hunter no doubt.

My question is, if we look at the beginning (McCleary), does the same hold true? To abduct a child from that area, to find one’s way around, does one have to be a hunter, too? What do people think?

Same applies to the statements someone made here about a migrant worker potentially being involved. I know how migrants are connected to Ellensburg. They have stores in that area, too.

But were migrants connected to McLeary in 2009? I doubt it. You can see migrants in Eastern WA because they follow seasonal work (there are apples and wineries around). But what work would be there for migrants in McCleary, next to abandoned loggers’ towns?

I have the feeling that the abductor is not a migrant, and doesn’t stand out in McCleary. JMO.
 
Thank you very much for the interesting post!

It is not difficult to get to Ellensburg from Western WA simply because it sits on I-90. The road is fast and straight. Ellensburg is advertised as the place to hunt for blue opals. It is well-known. University. Lots of people pass by. Certain drug traffic, too.

Not so McCleary. We have been to Tacoma and further, many times, but who, and why, would go to McCleary unless he was a local? Furthermore, one has to be a local not to be noticed in that tiny place.

But what drew my interest was your statement that the abductor/murderer was a hunter no doubt.

My question is, if we look at the beginning (McCleary), does the same hold true? To abduct a child from that area, to find one’s way around, does one have to be a hunter, too? What do people think?

Same applies to the statements someone made here about a migrant worker potentially being involved. I know how migrants are connected to Ellensburg. They have stores in that area, too.

But were migrants connected to McLeary in 2009? I doubt it. You can see migrants in Eastern WA because they follow seasonal work (there are apples and wineries around). But what work would be there for migrants in McCleary, next to abandoned loggers’ towns?

I have the feeling that the abductor is not a migrant, and doesn’t stand out in McCleary. JMO.
I agree. I think this was a McCleary resident or somebody from the county. Whether that person can hunt or not... the remnant was apparently right next to the road. This wasn't a mastermind.

I KNEW there was a retreat center there. What is that for? Do only hunters know how to get there...because from the maps I looked at the remnant was found right near there....? Is it some religious retreat, a business retreat, a family who doesn't hunt/camp much retreat? Again, I have to say we have no idea if the person had much more than a rudimentary knowledge of how to drive on Forest Service roads in an SUV or truck.
 
Thank you very much for the interesting post!

It is not difficult to get to Ellensburg from Western WA simply because it sits on I-90. The road is fast and straight. Ellensburg is advertised as the place to hunt for blue opals. It is well-known. University. Lots of people pass by. Certain drug traffic, too.

Not so McCleary. We have been to Tacoma and further, many times, but who, and why, would go to McCleary unless he was a local? Furthermore, one has to be a local not to be noticed in that tiny place.

But what drew my interest was your statement that the abductor/murderer was a hunter no doubt.

My question is, if we look at the beginning (McCleary), does the same hold true? To abduct a child from that area, to find one’s way around, does one have to be a hunter, too? What do people think?

Same applies to the statements someone made here about a migrant worker potentially being involved. I know how migrants are connected to Ellensburg. They have stores in that area, too.

But were migrants connected to McLeary in 2009? I doubt it. You can see migrants in Eastern WA because they follow seasonal work (there are apples and wineries around). But what work would be there for migrants in McCleary, next to abandoned loggers’ towns?

I have the feeling that the abductor is not a migrant, and doesn’t stand out in McCleary. JMO.
As mentioned by AspenChic, there is that camp (Lazy F Camp and Retreat Center) up there on Manastash RD. Last time I was looking at detailed maps I saw that Rider's Camp was RIGHT near there. That is supposedly near where the remain was found... and THAT my friends does not require some kind of hunter ability. People are going up there for Youth Camps, Religious stuff, Summer Camps, Weddings.... How hard is it to get there? How hard would it be to know that road and drive it......? How hard would it be for somebody who took their kids there to know where it is? I'm sorta jazzed about exploring that possibility.
 

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