"G (Guilty)" vs "NG (Not Guilty)" Where do you stand? #2

[legalmania]

This would be considered hearsay evidence because your friend is not here to state what he saw. What were the circumstances of death of those people? Was there one person, 2 people?

I worked in the hospital in the Cath lab. We were called to many of the cardiac arrests. The body's sometimes remained in their beds for hours before being removed. I can't think of a single one who had their mouth open. We recently dissected 20 bodies, none had their mouths open, none came to us with bands around their heads.

These bands, if there not put on at the hospital, then they must be put on at the morge, but then they must be taken off again later as none of the cadavers came to us with bands... This does not seem likely as people do not die and go to the morgue on a time schedule. Rigor is a timed event, therefore, if people's mouths were opening from rigor, I would have seen it in the hos, or some of the cadavors would have come to us with open mouths, none did.

I'm not saying it can't happen to someone, somehow, but it is not the norm from my direct experience.

Here are some actual people answering the question themselves not hearsay.

http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/forensic-science/mouth-open-after-death-218273.html

 

[Brini]

Here are some actual people answering the question themselves not hearsay.

http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/forensic-science/mouth-open-after-death-218273.html

I've seen mouths fall open, at time of death-- in adults. That often doesn't happen to little kids, in my own experience. At least, I haven't seen it in little kids.

I think the problem will be getting the jury to buy that KC decided to tape up the baby's face, because the mouth fell open. Especially since all of the airways were occluded.

It wouldn't take three 6"+ pieces of industrial strength duct tape just to close the mouth.

Which is likely why KC never claimed accident, back when LE THOUGhT it was an accident. She'd have to lead LE to the taped-up baby.

 

[reeseeva]

..and then she was stufffed into three bags. Her body would naturally contract into the fetal position.

BBM

Guilty... Amdist all other evidence, 31 days, coupled with the Three (3) Bags::waitasec::waitasec: Who would bother with 3 bags, and the brightest, White, Whitney, (plastic coated) laundry bag on the outside, really gives me pause, just think about it??:snooty:

 

[jon_burrows]

I've seen mouths fall open, at time of death-- in adults. That often doesn't happen to little kids, in my own experience. At least, I haven't seen it in little kids.

I think the problem will be getting the jury to buy that KC decided to tape up the baby's face, because the mouth fell open. Especially since all of the airways were occluded.

It wouldn't take three 6"+ pieces of industrial strength duct tape just to close the mouth.

Which is likely why KC never claimed accident, back when LE THOUGhT it was an accident. She'd have to lead LE to the taped-up baby.

I agree.

 

[Jolynna]

Why would KC care if Caylee's mouth was open? She left Caylee dressed in a t-shirt and shorts and stuffed her in garbage bags.
Then (or maybe even before death) Caylee went into the car trunk minus her mama doll or teddy.

I'm waiting to read the entomologist report. If no blowfly eggs, casings or maggots were found on the napkins or Casey's car trunk that is evidence Caylee either went into the trunk before or shortly after her death.

Anyway, my opinion is that KC didn't handle Caylee's remains and was very eager to get the body out of sight and out of mind.

Upon review of what is known...guilty.

imo

 

[USARDOG]

Personal experience. Sometimes, when people die, the strongest muscles relax as well as the more obvious muscles...that would be anal and jaw among others. The jaw falls open and fixes the person's face freezes in a semi-death grimace. I have also witnessed a quiet death with no overt physical reaction except cessation of breath.

Ok, if someone's mouth came open upon death a small amount, (it would not "fall" open) it would then be easy to close, and being there is not atp, it would then stay shut. So... There would be no need for anyone to put 3 layers of duct tape across the mouth to keep it closed. Rigor would set in shortly, and the mouth would be be locked shut for 24 hrs.

Guilty M1. end.

 

[texaslb218]

Ok, if someone's mouth came open upon death a small amount, (it would not "fall" open) it would then be easy to close, and being there is not atp, it would then stay shut. So... There would be no need for anyone to put 3 layers of duct tape across the mouth to keep it closed. Rigor would set in shortly, and the mouth would be be locked shut for 24 hrs.

Guilty M1. end.

Hey, not arguing that at all. Just posting my personal observations. It was surprising and grotesque to me. That's all.

Guilty, guilty,...IMO....guilty

 

[jandkmom]

Guilty.

 

[Rlaub44]

I've seen mouths fall open, at time of death-- in adults. That often doesn't happen to little kids, in my own experience. At least, I haven't seen it in little kids.

I think the problem will be getting the jury to buy that KC decided to tape up the baby's face, because the mouth fell open. Especially since all of the airways were occluded.

It wouldn't take three 6"+ pieces of industrial strength duct tape just to close the mouth.

Which is likely why KC never claimed accident, back when LE THOUGhT it was an accident. She'd have to lead LE to the taped-up baby.

I agree, Brini, but let me add a thought.

Even if I could halfway buy that KC duct taped Caylee's mouth because the sight of it gaped open was too much for her to bear, that doesn't begin to explain why she taped over her nose as well. And yes, I know that an almost 3 year old has a small face, but the natural thing (if you can call taping a child "natural"), would seem to be taping the mouth closed under the nose. IMO this was not done postmortem to simply keep the mouth closed.

Therefore, guilty, M1 in my opinion.

 

[JBean]

I am begging you all to take duct tape specific conversation to one of the other 50 duct tape threads. please please oh please.
Referencing it in your answers is no problem of course.what i am trying to discourage is duct tape specific discussion in every thread. It is the same conversation and it makes it tough to keep track of the info. Just do the best you can.

Gracias.

 

[everyoneneedsavoice]

GUILTY...I don't know how anyone can get past the fact that she didn't report her missing daughter for 31 days and not find her GUILTY! I believe the jury will deliver a quick verdict, even after being barraged with defense gibberish! The sentencing, imo, is where the jury will spend their time deliberating.

 

[my2sense]

Guilty.

 

[USARDOG]

Hey, not arguing that at all. Just posting my personal observations. It was surprising and grotesque to me. That's all.

Guilty, guilty,...IMO....guilty

No prob Tex, we all have an opinioni and that is a good thing. We have different observations, it happens. No big deal.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Guilty. Absolutely no doubt in my mind. I would not lose one minute's sleep over sentencing this criminal. I have much more concern for what Caylee went through than I have for what this young woman faces.

 

[cyberborg]

GUILTY.

31 Days and never ever reported Caylee missing. Lack of cooperation. Done deal. Nuff said.

 

[wyvern]

Guilty. First degree. Not a doubt in my mind.

 

[carla61154]

Guilty without question...the entire family makes my skin crawl...

 

[Manny]

As an alternative, during cpr peoples mouths are opened, and their jaws extended to open the airway. If perhaps if someone does not make it, and no one closes their mouths for them post mortem, it is possible that when rigor sets in you may not be able to close the mouth for 24 hrs... That could be what your friend saw.

This is a gruesome subject. However, my mother died at home. My sister who was a nurse tied a scarf under her jaw so that the mortician would not have to break the jaw. She said it had been a custom for many years for patients who died at home and had a private nurse.

 

[Jolynna]

This is a gruesome subject. However, my mother died at home. My sister who was a nurse tied a scarf under her jaw so that the mortician would not have to break the jaw. She said it had been a custom for many years for patients who died at home and had a private nurse.

During the days of using a scarf to tie up jaws, it was also the custom to put coins over the eyes so they would stay closed. No coins were found with Caylee on Suburban. (Here's a link that talks about coins over Lincoln's eyes and a scarf under his jaw: http://historical.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=6014&Lot_No=61140)

It isn't like KC was worried about preserving Caylee for viewing or as if covering up half of Caylee's face with duct tape (with great big industrial henkel logos) made for better viewing. KC couldn't have been concerned about a mortician breaking Caylee's jaw either. She didn't call anybody.

A scarf can be untied. Industrial strength duct tape pulls off skin and hair. Nobody has ever used duct tape as a rite of passage. There is only one reason to put it over another human's mouth and nose.

Guilty.

imo

 

[kaRN]

Guilty 1st Degree Murder - Totally Premeditated