GUILTY GA - Jorelys Rivera, 7, Canton, 2 Dec 2011 - #5

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Bluesky#1 said:
That's true, Melissa Huckaby was charged with the kidnapping, rape, and murder of Sandra Cantu. I didn't follow the case to trial so IDK how the prosecutors proved Sandra was raped by Melissa.

IIRC, Melissa kidnapped Sandra on a Friday afternoon. After Sandra returned home from school she left to go to a friends house and she disappeared while walking down the street. Sandra lived in a trailor complex.

What evidence do LE need to prove Jorelys was raped?
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OT but responding to Bluesky because I followed the other case.

When they did the autopsy on Jorelys, they would have been able to determine the types of injuries she had and what object would have caused those injuries.

Speaking specifically to an object rather than a part of another human's anatomy in injuries to a female's reproductive tract---the ME can tell if it was a male's anatomy or if it was an object used to commit the crime of rape.

Even with a small child such as Jorelys (and Sandra) the injuries incurred would point to one or the other and those injuries given how immature the female reprodutive tract is will be extensive even if the rape was commited by a male's body.

(tried to be as non specific as possible in order to not offend other readers if they are more easily than I am).

Even if there is no semen present, they will process the genital area during autopsy for any DNA (skin cells, other bodily fluids) and hair from another person that should not have been on the victim.

This is just knowledge from having read non fiction books on forensic science, IIRC we do have a member here (verified) that has worked in autopsy suites and is quite familiar with the processing of autopsy.

HTH.
 
I hope the "some sort of sticks' the detectives saw lying on top of a king-size mattress which was on the floor were collected and processed as well.

The detective who searched the vacant apartment said "A gentleman lives across from the vacant apartment" and when he knocked on his door the tenant said he already knew the child was missing. I'd like to know how the tenant knew? Did he hear or see something? Since his apartment is across the hall from the vacant apartment, I bet he can identify the person(s) who was staying there without permission.

When the detectives entered the vacant apartment they noticed it was unlocked and when they left the apartment, one of the detectives asked who the previous tenant was.

The killer might have left the door unlocked when they left with the body because they wanted to hurry and dispose of the body as quickly as possible.

The detective said the heat was on inside the apt because the maintenance guy hadn't shut the heat off after the previous tenant moved. It doesn't sound like the apartment had been attended to by any of the maintenance workers. A tenant is supposed to turn in their keys and the detective thinks the previous tenant still had them.

http://www.ajc.com/multimedia/archive/01222/Cherokee_internal__1222434a.pdf
 
Hickory Born said:
FYI The legal definition of "rape" in the State of Georgia can ONLY be between a male and female.
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Thank you. What would Melissa Huckaby's charges be if she committed the crime against Sandra Cantu in the State of Georgia?
 
Bluesky#1 said:
OT: I live in Winnipeg and Today is my Birthday. :cupcake: My favorite hockey team is the Pittsburgh Penquins and they are jetting to Winnipeg today after practice to play The Winnipeg Jets Friday evening. :fireworks:
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<snipped for focus>


Happy birthday, Bluesky #1!
 
The article I just read on Melissa Huckaby, a mother, explains what caused Melissa to attack Sandra Cantu.

<snipped>

Sexual molestation is not so much about sex as it's about power. Rape, with or without a foreign object, is an act that disempowers the victim so the rapist can somehow reclaim the power/integrity that was stolen from them at some previous time. The rapist may not remember the physical, emotional and/or sexual abuse he or she suffered as a child. It may be buried deep in the psyche. The person never deals with the trauma, never clears the deep shame and humiliation and fear that were the legacy of the abuse, and so may be at risk to repeat the behavior they learned.

Sexual predators who target young children are often trying, in their own twisted way, to get back the innocence that was stolen from them. They are attracted to the child's light, the child's goodness -- the light and goodness they wish they still had. They are often mirroring their own childhood, trying in a sick way to heal what was done to them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deborah-king/melissa-huckaby-and-the-u_b_188921.html
 
Bluesky#1 said:
OT: I live in Winnipeg and Today is my Birthday. :cupcake: My favorite hockey team is the Pittsburgh Penquins and they are jetting to Winnipeg today after practice to play The Winnipeg Jets Friday evening. :fireworks:
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Happy Birthday! Hope you are enjoying your day.:great::yourock::bdsong:
 
Bluesky#1 said:
That both stores exist making it possible Ryan was telling the truth when he said he was at KMart. The officer scrabbled the front letters and wrote Walmart instead of KMart; that's why LE couldn't find any evidence at Walmart.

If Ryan's attorney has evidence his client was in KMart when LE believe Jorelys was murdered then this solid evidence can set his client free. And if LE were in the wrong store, that means Ryan didn't lie to the cops so these charges against him will be dropped.

LE said they sent what they believed to be blood to the lab and received the results the following day. They never commented on the results but kept insisting it was blood they found in the vacant apartment .

Now it's possible the reason LE didn't release the results is because the "blood" turned out to be feces which has me thinking the tenant had a child who wore diapers with them.

OT: I live in Winnipeg and Today is my Birthday. :cupcake: My favorite hockey team is the Pittsburgh Penquins and they are jetting to Winnipeg today after practice to play The Winnipeg Jets Friday evening. :fireworks:
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Happy Birthday!

I believe the report reflects that what the officer thought was feces turned out to actually be blood, not vice versa.
 
Openmyeyes said:
I hope you never learn who I really am or you'll have me convicted of
stealing from stores (I was a retail store manager), kidnapping children (I've been on this board for many, many years following tons of cases and have speculated alot), offing a child abuser, and causing multitudes of car accidents (impatience for slow poke drivers on various Atlanta highways).

I need real evidence that RB did this. I'm not saying he's innocent, I just can't jump on the 'hang him now' bandwagon. I want to know that JR's blood was found on his clothes, in his apartment, or his dna was on her. I could convict him if he made damning statements to LE, but I can't say he's guilty because he made a comment to a neighbor when another kid was missing. I'm thinking that any one of us would have said something like that to her being the sleuthers that we are. Wouldn't it be sad if someone dragged him into an empty building in NY and molested him as a child?

Basically, I'm saying we just don't know what they have on him, but I sure hope its more than that. Oh does, anyone remember Richard Jewel? The GBI and the feds were involved in that one.
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I hear what you are saying. I thought about Richard Jewel and the Centennial Park Bomber case first. I thought about how Richard Jewel was convicted in the media. I thought about how the media dragged it on and on. I lived right downtown Atlanta at the time. I walked to Centennial Park every night to party with the world. Every night I happen to sit or stand approx. 50 feet from where the bomb went off. Why, because it was easier to get out of there when the festivities ended. But that particular night of the bombing I stayed home. Prior to the bombing, people at the park would often stop to sit right where the bomber planned to detonate. Before that people felt safe at the park. People left bags on the benches to go take pictures with their friends and family. People laughed together. We sang together. We had fun together. But what you are talking about is terror. Richard Jewell was definitely not a terrorist. There were soldiers walking around with high powered weapons. There were plain clothes police everywhere prior to, during, and after the bombing. The atmosphere around us was oddly tense.

Jorelys was having fun that day she disappeared. Unbeknownst to her family, there was someone lurking around her. Someone ready to cause lots of tension in all of our lives that day especially upon Jorelys and her family. I don't know what evidence they have on Ryan Brunn, but he looks like a very tense guy to me. I don't know his background, but I do know children that go through state custody have faced some real deprivation at sometime in their lives. I don't know if his own childhood memories caused him to plan to eventually hurt someone as an adult. IDK. I have worked with children in foster care. I've also worked with children who have been adopted who wish they hadn't been. I do know that look that children get when they have been deprived, and Ryan Brunn has it. I would think that when the police finally picked him up, if he were completely innocent, then he would have been crying or at least look worried. I didn't see any of that in the media photos.
I hope that LE has gathered all the evidence they need to convict RB. I could be wrong, but I have a deep feeling that I am not.
 
Bluesky#1 said:
I hope the "some sort of sticks' the detectives saw lying on top of a king-size mattress which was on the floor were collected and processed as well.

The detective who searched the vacant apartment said "A gentleman lives across from the vacant apartment" and when he knocked on his door the tenant said he already knew the child was missing. I'd like to know how the tenant knew? Did he hear or see something? Since his apartment is across the hall from the vacant apartment, I bet he can identify the person(s) who was staying there without permission.

When the detectives entered the vacant apartment they noticed it was unlocked and when they left the apartment, one of the detectives asked who the previous tenant was.

The killer might have left the door unlocked when they left with the body because they wanted to hurry and dispose of the body as quickly as possible.

The detective said the heat was on inside the apt because the maintenance guy hadn't shut the heat off after the previous tenant moved. It doesn't sound like the apartment had been attended to by any of the maintenance workers. A tenant is supposed to turn in their keys and the detective thinks the previous tenant still had them.

http://www.ajc.com/multimedia/archive/01222/Cherokee_internal__1222434a.pdf
Click to expand...

I hope they interviewed the previous tenants as thoroughly as possible, including any unlisted family members that may have been living there with them.

Happy Birthday!!!
 
Kat said:
OT but responding to Bluesky because I followed the other case.

When they did the autopsy on Jorelys, they would have been able to determine the types of injuries she had and what object would have caused those injuries.

Speaking specifically to an object rather than a part of another human's anatomy in injuries to a female's reproductive tract---the ME can tell if it was a male's anatomy or if it was an object used to commit the crime of rape.

Even with a small child such as Jorelys (and Sandra) the injuries incurred would point to one or the other and those injuries given how immature the female reprodutive tract is will be extensive even if the rape was commited by a male's body.

(tried to be as non specific as possible in order to not offend other readers if they are more easily than I am).

Even if there is no semen present, they will process the genital area during autopsy for any DNA (skin cells, other bodily fluids) and hair from another person that should not have been on the victim.

This is just knowledge from having read non fiction books on forensic science, IIRC we do have a member here (verified) that has worked in autopsy suites and is quite familiar with the processing of autopsy.

HTH.
Click to expand...

Yes, all these types of questions need an answer.

In cases where a child has been sexually assaulted, I think the ME would contact the department that specializes in these types of cases and they would work together. They would write a report detailing the results.

The prosecutor has to prove Jorelys was sexually assaulted and LE are depending on the ME and his coworker to figure out what happened.
 
I found a link that confirms Jorelys was planning to spend Xmas with her father and extended family in PR in 2011.

'I don't think I'll ever overcome this': Tragic words of father of murdered Jorelys Rivera, seven, as she is laid to rest

Jorelys left the industrial town of Penuelas where she was born with her mother when she was three.

She had come back several times and was to spend Christmas in Penuelas with her father and extended family.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Rivera-buried-Puerto-Rico.html#ixzz1hN9uiGi2

Regarding Jorelys's diary - why wouldn't she write about her upcoming vacation in her diary? I am sure Jorelys was very excited and happy about reuniting with her father who lives in a small town surrounded by the sea and mountains.

This article doesn&#8217;t say whether travel plans had been made so we don&#8217;t know if there were any in place.
 
Bluesky#1 said:
I found a link that confirms Jorelys was planning to spend Xmas with her father and extended family in PR in 2011.

'I don't think I'll ever overcome this': Tragic words of father of murdered Jorelys Rivera, seven, as she is laid to rest

Jorelys left the industrial town of Penuelas where she was born with her mother when she was three.

She had come back several times and was to spend Christmas in Penuelas with her father and extended family.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Rivera-buried-Puerto-Rico.html#ixzz1hN9uiGi2

Regarding Jorelys's diary - why wouldn't she write about her upcoming vacation in her diary? I am sure Jorelys was very excited and happy about reuniting with her father who lives in a small town surrounded by the sea and mountains.

This article doesn’t say whether travel plans had been made so we don’t know if there were any in place.
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BBM


I totally agree, if she was 11 or older, but honestly what could a FIRST GRADER write articuately about an upcoming trip? Christmas with dad...YAY?

I think this train of thought is a little far-fetched, we have no reason to assume there is any animosity between Joseline and her ex, Jorelys visited several times, Joseline was well-recieved there for the funeral proceedings, the 2 parents seemed to be a well-functioning team during the time they were here together (from when he flew in up through the funeral), they were side by side, grieving together, her friends here accepted him, her father was cordial and kind to him...I really don't see a hint of an issue at all.
 
Sorry, I just need to respond...

Bluesky#1 said:
It looks like Jorelys visited her father once a year since she left her native land
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Is there a MSM source that says she visited her father once a year? I got the impression that he travels between PR, Florida and Georgia regularly. Do we know where Jorelys was born? Was she born in PR, or in mainland US?

Bluesky#1 said:
I bet by the beginning of December Jorelys became increasingly excited about going away and she was constantly asking her mother if she had done this and that for her yet.
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I have never met a 7 year old that worries about travel plans, they just go with the flow.

Bluesky#1 said:
Jorelys has a diary that is reportedly missing and we were discussing what a 7 y.o. would likely write about and I am offering my opinion that she would write about her trips that began when she was 4 y.o. to a Caribbean Island.

I think she must have had wonderful memories of all her trips and she would have a growing collection of photo albums and scrap books. She would also bring home lovely gifts from her father and extended family members as well as souvenirs and mementos. Where is all of that?
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I have some close ties to PR that are not worth explaining here. Generally it is common for families travel back and forth often. To Jorelys, it was probably more like a trip to Grandma's then a trip to a tropical island. It would not be a site seeing tour of the ocean and mountains. There would not be souvenirs, just very special memories of time spent with loved ones. I doubt that her father's family lavished her with "lovely gifts". The culture is not as materialistic in terms of what they give their children. However, much more likely she was lavished with love!

Bluesky#1 said:
(respectfully snipped) Forensic Psychiatry Unit. (snip) Special Crimes Unit (snip)
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Really? That just sounds like an episode of CSI. Are you really that convinced that Jorelys mother was part of the crime or are you just trying to throw in reasonable doubt?
 
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