GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 9

[Bootsctr]

Good morning Abelia! I wanted to bring your post forward because it is an EXCELLENT post and has some information I thought would be interesting to review. I'm going to snip and post the part I wanted to focus on. Hope you don't mind.

But I continue to believe that this was a very personal crime directed toward the Dermonds, (if not toward the senior Dermonds then someone else in their family) not SS nor Putnam Co. I believe the Dermonds were well acquainted with the individual(s) and felt no alarm at their close presence. Was Mr. Dermond shot in the head? If my memory serves me this is only a theory proposed at WS, never publicly confirmed by SS? If this happened anywhere on his property, wouldn't SS know the exact location because of blood spatter? So if he was shot in the head elsewhere, this would be known because of gunpowder residue on his body or clothing? Wouldn't this require someone to approach at close range, at least as close as 5 feet before shooting him? Can't envision someone that Mr. Dermond didn't know extremely well, approaching that closely in isolation without arousing alarm.

As for Mrs. Dermond, if she was at home and heard a shot or saw her husband fall, I imagine she would have run as best she could, maybe trying to lock the door, grabbing her cell phone or house phone, and have to be forcibly removed from the house, leaving behind some speck of disarray. Yes she was old, but I don't believe she would have gone along numbly with someone she didn't know while her husband lay dead. Unless of course she were killed first. Again I can't imagine Mr. Dermond just letting the killer come within 5' of him with a gun in his hand. Of course as it has been speculated here, possibly she wasn't even at home when Mr. D. was killed".

Maybe neither of them were killed there. If they were away from home, wouldn't they have taken their phones? I know some people don't care for the devices, but if theirs were in full view on the table or counter, it would seem they normally grabbed them when they left home. Unless they were leaving for just a few minutes with someone they knew very well?

You are correct. We don't know for a fact that Mr. Dermond was shot in the head.... Pure speculation based on Sheriff Sills' own statements and the coroner:

"Putnam County Coroner Gary McElhenney says Russell Dermond died from cranial cerebral trauma. That is the official cause of death listed on the autopsy. Friday morning McElhenney told 13WMAZ's Anita Oh, cranial cerebral trauma means the cause of death was some sort of wound to the head, but they won't know exactly what until they find the head. McElhenney says that hasn't happened yet. Dermond's body did not have any gunshot wounds, stab wounds, or bruising. The coroner says there was no indication of a struggle. The blood splatter at the murder scene confirms that Dermond was beheaded after his death. McElhenney says there would have been more blood if the beheading had happened while Dermond was still alive."
http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/local/hancock/2014/05/09/putnam-murder-autopsy-report/8893493/

Regarding Mrs. Dermond and when she was abducted, I normally assumed she would have been abducted around the time the whole, but in reality after reading your comment I realize she could have been abducted elsewhere and not from the home:

"Putnam County sheriff Howard Sills said investigators were still at the home of Russell and Shirley Dermond on Monday, dusting for fingerprints and interviewing people who knew the couple.
But he said they have yet to find a motive for the murder of 88-year-old Russell Dermond, and his 87-year-old wife Shirley's apparent abduction.."

You're also correct in maybe neither one was killed at the home. Mr. Dermond could have been taken on his routine morning walk. I know that someone in the community "thought" they saw Mr. Dermond Friday morning. I don't have a link for that comment.

"Sills told 13WMAZ's Anita Oh that there's no indication that Russell Dermond's head was cut off while he was alive. He also said the house was in "immaculate condition," there were no gunshots or shell casing found. The sheriff also said it's possible Dermond was not killed at the house.

The couple's bank account shows no financial trouble, Sills said." http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/local/hancock/2014/05/08/putnam-sheriff-search-woman/8845069/

I know Sheriff Sills' first statement from MSM was "he (Mr. Dermond) was only moved a few feet" which I took to meant from right outside the garage to inside the garage. But, of course, that is only what we have been told. Indeed, they could have both been killed elsewhere. I have even considered the fact that Mr. Dermond was killed with a shotgun blast to the head. And in that case, I don't think there would be much of a head left. My brother-in-law comitted suicide with shotgun/mouth in front of my sister-in-law. My father-in-law and husband tried to clean up the bedroom, but a nearly impossible task and a professional biohazard/crime scene clean-up crew in (good movie to watch that deals with crime scene clean-up ~ Amy Adams in Sunshine Cleaning) (or Pulp Fiction ~ The Wolf ~ aka "The Cleaner).

Regarding both of their cell phones being left behind, I'm one of those people who doesn't really like having to carry a cell phone. I wouldn't want to be broke down on the side of the road w/o one, but I don't have an attachment to my cell phone. I agree with you that someone they knew could have convinced them they were just going to be gone "a few minutes" and that they didn't need their cell phones.

Sooooo..... whom did the Dermonds know well enough to allow them to put their guard down and then be murdered????

"He says the only possible witness they have was a caller who says, from a distance, she saw a man on the Dermonds' property that Saturday afternoon. "And that's the closest thing we have, we don't have a car description, we don't have a person description," Sills says.

Sills says his department has done a thorough investigation into the Dermonds' background. He doesn't believe any of their immediate family committed the crime, but does think it would have to be someone they knew. Sills says the case is unlike other murders because of the unique circumstances."
http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/local/2014/06/24/no-new-leads-in-dermond-murders/11327969/

Again, thank you for your thought-provoking post Abelia. Please continue to contribute your thoughts and theories. Help us keep the thread active for the Dermonds and for justice to be served. Would rather Justice be served quickly rather than revenge served cold. The Dermonds did not deserve this and neither does anyone else. The killer(s) are still out there and that is an injustice in my opinion.

 

[tomkat]

There are so many angles with the only information the public has, and with the only information we have, assuming it's not ALL of it, what kind of information would SS NOT SHARE with the public?

Assuming this is all there is....... how do we know they weren't both outside, away from their phones? A man was seen in the yard saturday afternoon (evening?), but no reports if there was a boat at the dock at that time, since no description could be given by the witness, nothing was noticed otherwise either, sadly, sadly

What have we missed/what other angles could there be in regards to the information we have?

I just don't think Mr D was killed "elsewhere" off the property, with SS verbage, he may have meant, outside the garage being "elsewhere" and not necessarily INSIDE the garage.

Makes sense SD was alive when she was "abducted" becausei f it was daylight and boat involved at their dock, that would be risky for the perps carrying a body

Makes sense that SD could have been abducted by car, not risky as far as neighbors or boaters seeing them, through all the trees in the driveway, STILL the question is WHY?

Makes sense (to me, i should add) that SD could have been abducted at dark, by boat, as not many would see this activity from lakeside, then if dead, WHY? Why not just leave her

Which brings me back to the "LIVE" abduction and a shield, as FF stated, but shield from what? If no one else was there to stop this?

Also, live abduction, after witnessing the death of husband, or even beheading, she would be in shock and not make any noise likely, by car or boat, but may have to be carried or supported, OMG, I can't imagine witnessing that !! how would we react??

WHY would someone be in the yard on saturday evening? Was it someone they knew from the neighborhood or party that may have been there looking for them? Was it after the party began? BUT WHY walk down to the lakeside? you can see from the house if they were at dock, unless the person was closer to the house, looking around for them. I dont' recall anyone stating how close or far from house this unknown person was located at the D's saturday evening

Maybe it wasn't someone they knew, maybe they were just trusting if they thought there was no one who had it out for them, so answered door friday or saturday to an unknown, thinking no harm, hell we do that sometimes, if we're all home, we arne't in a neighborhood, so maybe not wise to answer to people you dont' know

maybe they were just outside when it happened

STILL, the WHY? I dont' even think the LE knows that yet, what else is there to investigate when you have already reached so many dead ends?

What is LE searching these days?

just some rehashing, hoping to find another angle as to the how and why,that may have been missed

 

[Foxfire]

There are so many angles with the only information the public has, and with the only information we have, assuming it's not ALL of it, what kind of information would SS NOT SHARE with the public?

Assuming this is all there is....... how do we know they weren't both outside, away from their phones? A man was seen in the yard saturday afternoon (evening?), but no reports if there was a boat at the dock at that time, since no description could be given by the witness, nothing was noticed otherwise either, sadly, sadly

What have we missed/what other angles could there be in regards to the information we have?

I just don't think Mr D was killed "elsewhere" off the property, with SS verbage, he may have meant, outside the garage being "elsewhere" and not necessarily INSIDE the garage.

Makes sense SD was alive when she was "abducted" becausei f it was daylight and boat involved at their dock, that would be risky for the perps carrying a body

Makes sense that SD could have been abducted by car, not risky as far as neighbors or boaters seeing them, through all the trees in the driveway, STILL the question is WHY?

Makes sense (to me, i should add) that SD could have been abducted at dark, by boat, as not many would see this activity from lakeside, then if dead, WHY? Why not just leave her

Which brings me back to the "LIVE" abduction and a shield, as FF stated, but shield from what? If no one else was there to stop this?

Also, live abduction, after witnessing the death of husband, or even beheading, she would be in shock and not make any noise likely, by car or boat, but may have to be carried or supported, OMG, I can't imagine witnessing that !! how would we react??

WHY would someone be in the yard on saturday evening? Was it someone they knew from the neighborhood or party that may have been there looking for them? Was it after the party began? BUT WHY walk down to the lakeside? you can see from the house if they were at dock, unless the person was closer to the house, looking around for them. I dont' recall anyone stating how close or far from house this unknown person was located at the D's saturday evening

Maybe it wasn't someone they knew, maybe they were just trusting if they thought there was no one who had it out for them, so answered door friday or saturday to an unknown, thinking no harm, hell we do that sometimes, if we're all home, we arne't in a neighborhood, so maybe not wise to answer to people you dont' know

maybe they were just outside when it happened

STILL, the WHY? I dont' even think the LE knows that yet, what else is there to investigate when you have already reached so many dead ends?

What is LE searching these days?

just some rehashing, hoping to find another angle as to the how and why,that may have been missed

<BBM for Focus>

Food for thought. Thanx for sharing, Tomkat..

Imo, the Dermonds were initially the victims of an elaborate, creative, and well planned ruse to gain entrance to their home. For instance, an official document, package delivery, etc. Once inside, the perp/s likely restrained the Dermonds utilizing zip ties, ligatures, handcuffs, etc. They would have likely been brought into immediate compliance by the perps by means of physical violence or threat with a deadly weapon; firearm or knife.. All indicators point to a well planned and executed crime by organized and experienced offenders, imo. The first rule of prey is to control the victims and bring them into immediate compliance.

Mr D may have been murdered and decapitated in the garage. Organized offenders come prepared with kill kits containing the tools necessary to complete the crime. From observations, the perp/s were forensically and investigative aware, imo. A plastic tarp may have been used to eliminate blood spatter and evidence residue from the decapitation, imo. Imo, Mrs D was alive and compliant when transported to the boat and was executed later when she was of no longer use to the perps. Mrs D was likely used as a hostage/shield in case of an arbitrary DNR check on lake oconee during the perp/s departure. JMO

 

[tomkat]

They HAD to be victims of some elaborate plan, as there was no forensics, yet as we know. I have to agree with you FF!

Also, no leads, other than the the speculation SS or FBI has in regards to anything found or how the crime scene was discovered; not much blood splatter, RD/SD cell phones on counter, no footprints of the perps,no weapons recovered, no drag marks outside or inside, no tire marks, front door or DOORS unlocked (still unsure if any other doors were unlocked but the front), alarm off, garage door closed, RD decapitated body found in front of cars (?), man with no description seen walking on lakeside of property (where exaactly) Saturday evening, fridays crossword puzzle started/completed?, house cleaner than SS has ever seen a house, SD was in "everyday clothing" NOT PJ's or attire for the Derby party, no forced entry, SD found 2 weeks later in lake

We dont' know how many doors were found unlocked
We don't know what RD was wearing, if anything, is there a secret in not letting this information out to the public or maybe humiliating so kept it to themselves (LE)?

Of course there is A LOT WE DON"T KNOW, but these are things that could have easily been reported since some ofi t was already reported, like SD clothing and the front door unlocked

SS stated that in this case, for everything that appears to organized or professional, there is something that negates that, or in his words, there is something that equally looks like it's NOT a professional hit

WHAT does THAT tell us? They were hired by professionals and were told what to do but in the heat of the moment the full plan got twisted???

Question: WHAT is a professional exactly? AND is there a difference in professional and organized??

I would imagine street thugs would leave a mess and a trail
I would imagine someone having withdrawals from a drug and there for money, would leave a trail also

Pro's clean up and leave no trace, correct? Hmmmm, More food for thought


Someone add to the "what we know" if I missed anything, facts from this case, not FBI profiling facts, YET

Hope everyone is enjoying this extreme brain frying heat!

<BBM for Focus>

Food for thought. Thanx for sharing, Tomkat..

Imo, the Dermonds were initially the victims of an elaborate, creative, and well planned ruse to gain entrance to their home. For instance, an official document, package delivery, etc. Once inside, the perp/s likely restrained the Dermonds utilizing zip ties, ligatures, handcuffs, etc. They would have likely been brought into immediate compliance by the perps by means of physical violence or threat with a deadly weapon; firearm or knife.. All indicators point to a well planned and executed crime by organized and experienced offenders, imo. The first rule of prey is to control the victims and bring them into immediate compliance.

Mr D may have been murdered and decapitated in the garage. Organized offenders come prepared with kill kits containing the tools necessary to complete the crime. From observations, the perp/s were forensically and investigative aware, imo. A plastic tarp may have been used to eliminate blood spatter and evidence residue from the decapitation, imo. Imo, Mrs D was alive and compliant when transported to the boat and was executed later when she was of no longer use to the perps. Mrs D was likely used as a hostage/shield in case of an arbitrary DNR check on lake oconee during the perp/s departure. JMO

 

[Happyshoes]

Very good posts, Foxfire and Tomkat...I am one of those who originally thought it was someone (most likely a druggie) looking for money or a safe and things just went haywire, but I do not dismiss any other ideas. Like Tomkat, I can't understand why LE can't give us something? I understand keeping things "close to the vest" but this is getting strange. We don't even know if the perp(s) ever really went into the house. I do think Mrs. D was alive when they took her in the boat and it must have been as a hostage, but what went wrong? Were they afraid she would scream? If it was as well planned as Foxfire thinks, it's a whole different ballgame and somebody had to profit from this, IMO. Follow the money trail. I still have a hard time thinking if it was a hit, why not just do the deed? Why the complications? I also haven't heard anyone say why they think the perp(s) came by car but left by boat? I tend to think they came and left by boat, just in and out, job completed. This is maddening to me. I just had to check in since I was gone all weekend. Trying to stay hopeful. Come on, SS - find these killers!

 

[Foxfire]

Signature behaviors are those acts committed by an offender that are not necessary to complete the offense. Their convergence can be used to suggest an offender&#8217;s psychological or emotional needs (signature aspect). They are best understood as a reflection of the underlying personality traits, lifestyle, and developmental experiences of an offender.

Imo, the post mortem decapitation of Mr D is the signature in this crime and speaks volumes about the offender/s' likely motive in their murders.. jmo

 

[southernmimi]

IMO, decapitation was the message...

 

[Foxfire]

IMO, decapitation was the message...

I agree southernmimi.. The writing is on the wall, and the devil in the details, imo. Tomorrow will be the 12th week of the investigation since Mr D's torso was located and Mrs D vanished. It has been almost one month since the veil of secrecy/silence has been thrown over the Dermond abduction/murders/decapitation investigation..
_______________

A fresh start in investigation into Dermond murders - July 2, 2014
http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/lo...-investigation-into-dermond-murders/12038313/

PUTNAM COUNTY, Ga. – On the surface at least, things looked pretty normal at Lake Oconee as local residents prepare for the big upcoming July 4th holiday weekend.

But underneath, many are well aware that one of the area's biggest and most gruesome murders remains unsolved.
Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills is obviously frustrated that one of his biggest cases of his nearly 40-year law enforcement career isn't solved yet.
"Unfortunately, I wish I could tell you that I had a clear suspect; I don't," he told 11Alive.
Sills called a four-hour meeting Tuesday with several agencies, including the FBI as well as investigators from the District Attorney's office and some neighboring counties. He said they wanted fresh eyes to help them sift through everything they had from top to bottom.
<sniped - read more>
________________________

&#8206;Eatonton Messenger News facebook
https://www.facebook.com/EatontonMe...fset=0&total_comments=20&notif_t=feed_comment

 

[tomkat]

Well a few things I could comment on here:

1-it says something to me that in 40 40 years, there has never been anything like this in Putnam County
2-when you live in small crime free town, and imagine for a minute, 40 years ago, it was vacant or like Mayberry RFD
3-I've driven through several of teh surrounding counties, not a whole helluva lot there either, mostly wide open spaces and farms
4-And THIS is where they are getting their "fresh eyes" and hope and expertise!??!?!

I'm thinking, Ss is used to running his show and he's gonna run his show and he wants those working with him that will let him run his show, of course, MOO

But that could be detrimental, I m thinking like FF and BS and others, they need other REAL experts on this that have dealt with more than a kid stealing a cow or rowboat

And the EM is on my disgusted list

biggest cases of his nearly 40-year law enforcement career isn't solved yet.
"Unfortunately, I wish I could tell you that I had a clear suspect; I don't," he told 11Alive.
Sills called a four-hour meeting Tuesday with several agencies, including the FBI as well as investigators from the District Attorney's office and some neighboring counties. He said they wanted fresh eyes to help them sift through everything they had from top to bottom.

 

[tomkat]

So as in my and many others early thoughts., immediately after this crime, the beheading is the message (to someone) or the motive (to control someone or confuse the investigation) to hide another possible motive?

Hmmmm

 

[Zuri]

I am taking the pics of the Dermonds to a forensic psychic that the police use here. She has helped solve many crimes in my area.

 

[Bootsctr]

I am taking the pics of the Dermonds to a forensic psychic that the police use here. She has helped solve many crimes in my area.

Oh! I think that is a good idea! I am not opposed to psychics. At this point, I'm open to someone who could give us some new thoughts regarding the case. If you can show her the house pics too Zuri. The back of the house with the boat ramp and all. Thank you.

 

[bessie]

I'm going to re-open the thread. You'll notice posts referencing a particular cult have been removed. That topic is OFF LIMITS in the Dermonds' threads. LE has given absolutely no indication that the murders were the work of cultists. In fact, Sheriff Sills made a statement to the contrary, iirc.

If you'd like to continue a discussion of the NC, I'll open a thread in the Parking Lot for that purpose.

Thanks.



ETA: Link to new thread in the Parking Lot to discuss the Nuwaubian Cult

The Dermond discussion remains in this thread, and should not carry over into the NC thread. If it does, then the NC thread will be closed permanently, and the Dermond thread closed until LE issues another press release.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Now I can come back to this thread!
I really thought this case would be solved. There must have literally been little to no evidence at the D's home. I still think this horrible crime was not a random crime....but why?


Tomcat, I believe the beheading was a message but to who?

 

[Backwoods]

Oh! I think that is a good idea! I am not opposed to psychics. At this point, I'm open to someone who could give us some new thoughts regarding the case. If you can show her the house pics too Zuri. The back of the house with the boat ramp and all. Thank you.

I'm in agreement, Bootsctr -- but we need to stay aware that (as far as I know) any discussion of a case from a psychic angle is still against WS TOS ... and also (and what is perhaps even more dangerous) makes some members instantly livid. (I imagine you'd agree that we don't want to encourage Zuri to post anything that would result in Zuri getting in TOS trouble, or getting scorched, for sharing within the thread anything gleaned along psychic lines.)

 

[Bootsctr]

Absolutely Backwoods! I don't want to encourage anyone to break WS TOS and I don't want Zuri in trouble. Thank you for the reminder. Sooooooo frustrated there have been no breaks in this case, as is everyone else....

The family was involved in restaurant franchises and real estate. I can only imagine that the beheading was a message to the family and someone they had dealings with and that person came out of the deal with the short end of the stick.

 

[wildebeest]

Alrighty then...Here we are, another day, and no news. The facts are few, and the suspects, none. The only thing I see that could possibly jump start this investigation, is to greatly increase the reward. :twocents:

IMHO

 

[tomkat]

Have been thinking about the reason SD was taken and not RD

Wondering if maybe it was someone they had a business dealing with, went bad for whatever reason, another poster has suspicion of that

Maybe they possibly took HER as RANSOM to gain something from RD and he DID NOT or COULD NOT COMPLY, so that is why she eneded up in lake, and he ended up decapitiated, pure anger at him or a way to end the bs deal or suome such scenario, maybe if he wouldn't sign something or release something or pay up or whatever,

maybe or maybe not the location the perps chose was due to jurisdiction, if they tethered her then it implies she wasn't meant to be found, maybe just good fishing spot to "HIDE OUT" in open view, passersby would not suspect anything of course at night, no moon, could not see anything

thinking they took her from the cove, pics bootsctr posted in other thread, can you repost those bootsctr? Do you have them on your computer? No one could see them there, whether she was unconcious or conscious at the taking, I THINK there was vacant land on the other side of that vacant wooded lot? the golf course?? I know there was a dock more directly across from the D's dock, nearer to open water, cna't recall if anything across from that cove, seems like not but I could be wrong

 

[watcher9]

None of this makes any sense!
Why kill an elderly couple who seemed to live a quiet life?
Why them and not another couple?
Nothing missing from their house that we know of?
Why behead RD after killing him?
Why was SD put into the lake far away from her house?
Was she weighed down in hopes no one would find her? Were any concrete blocks, heavy stones or ropes found with her?
If the killer was worried about DNR checking him, why would he take the chance of transporting her alive or dead to the disposal site? The same with RD's head?

 

[Bootsctr]

I like your train of thought here TK! I have to go to a work luncheon. Be back and post the pictures of the cove with a link. Somebody posted a Youtube video of the same area with a link.

Adding someone logged onto the Dermonds' computer Friday and also about the same time Saturday. Don't have a link right now, but that could have meant Russell was trying to transfer money or funds and for some reason the transaction did not go through by Saturday which could have been the deadline and then Mrs. D was killed.