GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #2

[blue22]

No, the article you quoted does not say second degree murder... the cruelty charge was downgraded from first degree to second... he was never charged with 1st degree murder, he was charged with felony murder. I have not seen where the murder charges have been downgraded... if you have can you provide that link? Everything the police have said in the last hour has led me to believe that they still believe this wasn't an accident.

He is still in jail for felony murder and the second degree felony cruelty to a child charge. Nothing has changed about that.

 

[Judicious1]

Yep..........as many us knew had to be the case.............and common sense would indicate, too, IMO, that it wouldn't have been smelling all that fresh at noon either..........less of a smell obviously but there had to have been one.

And this major smell when first responders arrived means that Daddy dearest must have smelled this when getting into car at 4pm.........yet he drives elsewhere and makes like JUST found child deceased?

Wonder if some of the vomit on poor little one was Dad's vomit, from the smell and sight when trying to get him out of the car seat.

1) some of the stories I read no one mentioned a smell and some children had been in the car just as long so I didn't want to assume.

2) where did you read there was vomit on Cooper - I thought that was speculation

 

[Chewy]

They probably down graded it because they know some moron on the jury will feel sorry for him!

 

[blue22]

They probably down graded it because they know some moron on the jury will feel sorry for him!

I think currently, they are likely finding it hard to prove premeditation and intent. The charges can always be change, if/when more evidence is gathered.

I am very interested in toxicology. The breakfast makes me wonder...

 

[Karmady]

Carrying this over :

That is not 100% true based on what I read on kidsandcars.org and the Washington post article. Some yes, the parents switched or a grandparent were watching the kids and forgot because they weren't use to having them but most cases the parent that does it everyday and was either distracted, stressed, on the phone or their normal routine was interrupted by an added stop or leaving at a different time. Most stories I read said because they are so use to dropping them they all thought they did despite the child still being in the car. They continue the day as if its any other day and have even recalled drop of scenarios that hadn't happened that day. That's why seeing a picture or a spouse asking how the child did at drop off during the day of accidents won't normally trigger an oh no feeling in them. Many have driven all the way back to the daycare to pick them up not realizing the poor babies are deceased in the back seat.

People keep saying "this happens all the time". I've said it but I want to rephrase. This happens... If there are 40 something cases of children passing in cars, not all left, its not all that common. Just tragic

I agree. I posted yesterday, I think, I can see myself having had the potential to do something like this for that very reason. My routine is pretty consistent about certain things and a lot of times I can't tell you whether my memory of doing those certain things is from today, yesterday or some other day. Taking medication for example. I'm supposed to have been taking the same daily medication which I would eventually die without (so it's important) every day for decades. I forget to take it more than I remember to take it, and when I do take it, I often forget whether I've taken it even if I took it five minutes prior.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

They probably down graded it because they know some moron on the jury will feel sorry for him!

Nah.. they downgraded it because ethically they can only charge what they can prove. If it becomes clear that it was premeditated they can up the charges again.

 

[blue22]

Nah.. they downgraded it because ethically they can only charge what they can prove. If it becomes clear that it was premeditated they can up the charges again.

Unless toxicology, his private life, or the computer searches has something big, I think that will be very difficult to prove.

Unfortunately.

 

[Karmady]

No, the article you quoted does not say second degree murder... the cruelty charge was downgraded from first degree to second... he was never charged with 1st degree murder, he was charged with felony murder. I have not seen where the murder charges have been downgraded... if you have can you provide that link? Everything the police have said in the last hour has led me to believe that they still believe this wasn't an accident.

The issue is the intent. If the underlying felony charge is not for an intent crime, but is still a felony, than the felony murder charge would still stand. The point is that the downgrade is inconsistent with the intent to commit any crime, including murder. The current felony charge is not based on intent so, automatically, neither is the felony murder charge.

jmo

 

[Chewy]

Fox 5 claims car stunk to high heavens when first responders got there

I said this from day one. It's the only thing in my mind that would immediately prove to the cops that his story didn't ad up!

 

[Judicious1]

I'm leaning towards he accidentally left the child in the morning ( somehow ) .... noticed at noon- panicked - googled information but put animals in the search to be "safe" and left the kid in the car for 3-4 more hours trying to figure out what to do and say to his wife and police. Had this been planned ahead of time I think he would have had a much better plan and less of a trail. What goes trough people's minds when they accidentally kill their children and know it could have been avoided had they paid more attention I don't know and hope I never do. He must not have wanted to be seen as responsible. I guess he thought saying Cooper choked and thats what made him pull over then changed it to he left him on accident but didn't notice the smell right away wouldn't change Cooper's
fate but might have taken away the fact he left him for hours before contacting police to report what he had done. This is my opinion based on everything revealed about him and this case. I do not feel he started out the day intent on getting rid of his child.

 

[CrazytownUSA]

Nah.. they downgraded it because ethically they can only charge what they can prove. If it becomes clear that it was premeditated they can up the charges again.

It will be interesting to see how they intend to prove felony murder based on the felony being 2nd degree cruelty. These guys better be sure they have a good case. IMO, it would have been easier to charge him with manslaughter and THEN up the charge to murder if they had a solid case.

 

[blue22]

I said this from day one. It's the only thing in my mind that would immediately prove to the cops that his story didn't ad up!

Agree. Since people act in any number of strange ways in these situations, I knew it couldn't have been based on behavior alone.

 

[Judicious1]

They probably down graded it because they know some moron on the jury will feel sorry for him!

Well no ... Now they don't have to prove intent nor motive. The act of leaving him on accident is a felony cruelty 2nd degree and it resulted in a death which translates into a murder.

Wonder why manner of death wasn't released?

 

[CrazytownUSA]

The issue is the intent. If the underlying felony charge is not for an intent crime, but is still a felony, than the felony murder charge would still stand. The point is that the downgrade is inconsistent with the intent to commit any crime, including murder. The current felony charge is not based on intent so, automatically, neither is the felony murder charge.

jmo

That is where my confusion lies... I don't understand why they didn't reduce the murder charge at the same time as the cruelty charge. If they believe the child cruelty was without malice, I don't understand why he isn't being charged with involuntary manslaughter.

 

[Judicious1]

It will be interesting to see how they intend to prove felony murder based on the felony being 2nd degree cruelty. These guys better be sure they have a good case. IMO, it would have been easier to charge him with manslaughter and THEN up the charge to murder if they had a solid case.

I think, from what I read in other posters posts, the way GA law is written, the way they have charged him is similar to a manslaughter charge but carries a higher sentence???

 

[CrazytownUSA]

I'm leaning towards he accidentally left the child in the morning ( somehow ) .... noticed at noon- panicked - googled information but put animals in the search to be "safe" and left the kid in the car for 3-4 more hours trying to figure out what to do and say to his wife and police. Had this been planned ahead of time I think he would have had a much better plan and less of a trail. What goes trough people's minds when they accidentally kill their children and know it could have been avoided had they paid more attention I don't know and hope I never do. He must not have wanted to be seen as responsible. I guess he thought saying Cooper choked and thats what made him pull over then changed it to he left him on accident but didn't notice the smell right away wouldn't change Cooper's
fate but might have taken away the fact he left him for hours before contacting police to report what he had done. This is my opinion based on everything revealed about him and this case. I do not feel he started out the day intent on getting rid of his child.

That is what I'm thinking too... which is the only explanation for the 2nd degree cruelty with the felony murder. If he realized his mistake at noon, and then waited until later in the day to report it? I do hope they explain these charges soon...

 

[blue22]

It will be interesting to see how they intend to prove felony murder based on the felony being 2nd degree cruelty. These guys better be sure they have a good case. IMO, it would have been easier to charge him with manslaughter and THEN up the charge to murder if they had a solid case.

It doesn't matter what degree the felony is. Felony murder is when someone dies, in the commission of another felony. The second degree charge only speaks to intent, not weakness in the murder charge. What it means is at this point, they don't have a motive and can't prove premeditation. They downgraded, because the information they have can't support the first degree felony. But, the second degree felony DOES support the felony murder charge. You better believe the are scouring his life to make sure there wasn't premeditation and motive.

 

[blue22]

That is where my confusion lies... I don't understand why they didn't reduce the murder charge at the same time as the cruelty charge. If they believe the child cruelty was without malice, I don't understand why he isn't being charged with involuntary manslaughter.

(a) A person commits the offense of murder when he unlawfully and with malice aforethought, either express or implied, causes the death of another human being.

(b) Express malice is that deliberate intention unlawfully to take the life of another human being which is manifested by external circumstances capable of proof. Malice shall be implied where no considerable provocation appears and where all the circumstances of the killing show an abandoned and malignant heart.

(c) A person also commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.

(d) A person convicted of the offense of murder shall be punished by death or by imprisonment for life.

ETA: sorry, I really can't get this to link right now Those are felony murder requirements in Georgia. I bolded what seems applicable here. Since Cooper died during the commission of a felony (the cruelty charge) it's felony murder.

 

[Karmady]

That is where my confusion lies... I don't understand why they didn't reduce the murder charge at the same time as the cruelty charge. If they believe the child cruelty was without malice, I don't understand why he isn't being charged with involuntary manslaughter.

All that felony murder requires is the intent to commit the underlying felony. So if the underlying felony does not require malice, neither does the related felony murdre charge. Think of it this way...if you happen to kill someone while committing a felony, you're automatically guilty of "murder" if you are proven to be guilty of the felony. The law looks at it like -- well, when you decided to commit this felony, you took the chance that someone would end up dead -- and they did, so now you're automatically guilty of that crime, too, and we don't have to prove it separately.

Here's a somewhat easy to read link

http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/the-crime-of-felony-murder-in-georgia

 

[CrazytownUSA]

I think, from what I read in other posters posts, the way GA law is written, the way they have charged him is similar to a manslaughter charge but carries a higher sentence???

Ah, that makes more sense. Still, if it truly WAS an accident, being charged with ANY type of "murder" is so damning. More so when it's your baby...