General Gun Violence/Gun Control #2

[Cota332]

I would just like to point out that, concerning the individuals who suggested 'Where are the good guys with guns'; the recent shooting out of Lakewood, Texas could have been exponentially worse than what had transpired.

An off-duty Houston Police Officer, who was at the church for an extra job, exchanged gunfire with Moreno, incapacitating the gunman, and preventing a mass casualty event.

 

[housewife]

Firearm Shannon Gooden used in Burnsville shooting that killed 3 responders was straw purchase

WCCO Senior Investigative Reporter Jennifer Mayerle has confirmed that the firearm, an AR-15 lower receiver, was a transfer purchase from The Modern Sportsman in Burnsville.

www.cbsnews.com

Why are straw purchases only a misdemeanor???

Rest in peace, officers. We thank you for your sacrifice.

 

[housewife]

I would just like to point out that, concerning the individuals who suggested 'Where are the good guys with guns'; the recent shooting out of Lakewood, Texas could have been exponentially worse than what had transpired.

An off-duty Houston Police Officer, who was at the church for an extra job, exchanged gunfire with Moreno, incapacitating the gunman, and preventing a mass casualty event.

Yup, the church hired security.
Probably because they know many people have guns, but shouldn't?

 

[PrairieWind]

Firearm Shannon Gooden used in Burnsville shooting that killed 3 responders was straw purchase

WCCO Senior Investigative Reporter Jennifer Mayerle has confirmed that the firearm, an AR-15 lower receiver, was a transfer purchase from The Modern Sportsman in Burnsville.

www.cbsnews.com

Why are straw purchases only a misdemeanor???

Rest in peace, officers. We thank you for your sacrifice.
View attachment 486850

I agree that there should be stiffer penalties. I think knowingly participating in a straw purchase should be a felony

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I would just like to point out that, concerning the individuals who suggested 'Where are the good guys with guns'; the recent shooting out of Lakewood, Texas could have been exponentially worse than what had transpired.

An off-duty Houston Police Officer, who was at the church for an extra job, exchanged gunfire with Moreno, incapacitating the gunman, and preventing a mass casualty event.

Statistically you’re going to occasionally have a good guy take out the bad guy. But the overall flood of firearms in the US means that you’re being slaughtered at an alarming rate that far outweighs the rare example like that.

The biggest price you’re paying is in the schools. Arms race tactics on your own soil don’t work.

 

[PrairieWind]

Statistically you’re going to occasionally have a good guy take out the bad guy. But the overall flood of firearms in the US means that you’re being slaughtered at an alarming rate that far outweighs the rare example like that.

The biggest price you’re paying is in the schools. Arms race tactics on your own soil don’t work.

Those statistics are a bit misleading. Of course examples of a good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy will be rare. It is always the bad guy that instigates the shooting and picks the time and place. And 99.9% of citizens are not walking around with a gun to stop them.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Those statistics are a bit misleading. Of course examples of a good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy will be rare. It is always the bad guy that instigates the shooting and picks the time and place. And 99.9% of citizens are not walking around with a gun to stop them.

I don’t even need statistics to see the issue. And I’ve seen them, they back up my position.

Handguns are overall no match for the issue you have with have with shooters armed with military-grade firearms.

It’s a crying shame. I tend to not follow your mass shootings anymore because they’re now as predictable as the sun coming up. Almost as frequent.

-mass shooting with an AK-something, dozens injured/killed
-oh, the guy was troubled, but he easily got the firearms. It was his right. I don’t like him, but defend his right to bear arms because I don’t want my gun collection bothered with.
-candlelight vigil. Thoughts and prayers. Blah blah blah from politicians.
-new anti-firearms activists are created out of the tragedy.
-the pro-gun people try to tear them down at any cost. Talk about the Constitution.
-people move on
-within days or a few weeks the cycle starts again, but the victims/survivors are growing at an exponential rate.

 

[Cota332]

Statistically you’re going to occasionally have a good guy take out the bad guy. But the overall flood of firearms in the US means that you’re being slaughtered at an alarming rate that far outweighs the rare example like that.

The biggest price you’re paying is in the schools. Arms race tactics on your own soil don’t work.

Where are the statistics here that show that schools are more-so disproportionately affected than other venues of mass-casualty events?

 

[Cota332]

Firearm Shannon Gooden used in Burnsville shooting that killed 3 responders was straw purchase

WCCO Senior Investigative Reporter Jennifer Mayerle has confirmed that the firearm, an AR-15 lower receiver, was a transfer purchase from The Modern Sportsman in Burnsville.

www.cbsnews.com

Why are straw purchases only a misdemeanor???

Rest in peace, officers. We thank you for your sacrifice.

While a straw purchase is technically a misdemeanor in MN, it's automatically a felony on the federal level. In fact, in purchasing any firearm today, requires the purchaser to fill out the ATF Form 4473, which makes the purchaser specifically state multiple times that they are purchasing the firearm for themselves.

Here's a quote to further demystify some misconceptions about straw purchases :

"Lying on a federal firearms transaction form is a crime, according to the U.S. Department of Justice. Straw purchases are often conducted when someone cannot pass a background check for a weapon, or if a person doesn't want to be associated with the gun they are trying to acquire.

It is a felony, punishable by up to 15 years in prison and a $250,000 fine, according to the Department of Justice."

 

[DFWNF]

While a straw purchase is technically a misdemeanor in MN, it's automatically a felony on the federal level. In fact, in purchasing any firearm today, requires the purchaser to fill out the ATF Form 4473, which makes the purchaser specifically state multiple times that they are purchasing the firearm for themselves.

Here's a quote to further demystify some misconceptions about straw purchases :

Lying on the ATF form is a crime? Well no doubt people getting set to do mass murders will worry about that.

 

[Cota332]

Lying on the ATF form is a crime? Well no doubt people getting set to do mass murders will worry about that.

Murder is also illegal, perhaps that's the whole idea behind this debate. Whether or not governments would be able to legislate evil out of this world.

 

[DFWNF]

Murder is also illegal, perhaps that's the whole idea behind this debate. Whether or not governments would be able to legislate evil out of this world.

Um ya. Getting rid of evil by banning guns would be a great start imo.

 

[DFWNF]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
Do you have stats for how many were killed in school mass shootings vs how many were killed in non school mass shootings in 2023? Unfortunately I don't.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

“Surviving a school shooting: Impacts on the mental health, education, and earnings of American youth​

Key Takeaways​

• More than 100,000 American children attended a school at which a shooting took place in 2018 and 2019.
• Research indicates a higher rate of antidepressant use among those exposed to a school shooting in the years following the gun violence.
• School shootings lead to drops in student enrollment and a decline in average test scores.
• School shootings also lead to an increase in student absenteeism and the likelihood of needing to repeat a grade in the two following years.
• Students exposed to shootings at their schools are less likely to graduate high school, go to college, and graduate college, and they are less likely to be employed and have lower earnings in their mid-20s.”

Surviving a school shooting: Impacts on the mental health, education, and earnings of American youth

Other

siepr.stanford.edu

---

That’s just the students. The people impacted is growing at an exponential rate.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Where are the statistics here that show that schools are more-so disproportionately affected than other venues of mass-casualty events?

You have misquoted me.

 

[Cota332]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
Do you have stats for how many were killed in school mass shootings vs how many were killed in non school mass shootings in 2023? Unfortunately I don't.

The stats have been posted here previously, and looks like they continually update with each new event.

Here are the stats that show schools are not even in the top 5 in terms of places where mass-shootings occur.

 

[DFWNF]

“Surviving a school shooting: Impacts on the mental health, education, and earnings of American youth​

Key Takeaways​

• More than 100,000 American children attended a school at which a shooting took place in 2018 and 2019.
• Research indicates a higher rate of antidepressant use among those exposed to a school shooting in the years following the gun violence.
• School shootings lead to drops in student enrollment and a decline in average test scores.
• School shootings also lead to an increase in student absenteeism and the likelihood of needing to repeat a grade in the two following years.
• Students exposed to shootings at their schools are less likely to graduate high school, go to college, and graduate college, and they are less likely to be employed and have lower earnings in their mid-20s.”

Surviving a school shooting: Impacts on the mental health, education, and earnings of American youth

Other

siepr.stanford.edu

---

That’s just the students. The people impacted is growing at an exponential rate.

Public, families, communities, first responders, survivors, the whole country. The entire world.

 

[Cota332]

“Surviving a school shooting: Impacts on the mental health, education, and earnings of American youth​

Key Takeaways​

• More than 100,000 American children attended a school at which a shooting took place in 2018 and 2019.
• Research indicates a higher rate of antidepressant use among those exposed to a school shooting in the years following the gun violence.
• School shootings lead to drops in student enrollment and a decline in average test scores.
• School shootings also lead to an increase in student absenteeism and the likelihood of needing to repeat a grade in the two following years.
• Students exposed to shootings at their schools are less likely to graduate high school, go to college, and graduate college, and they are less likely to be employed and have lower earnings in their mid-20s.”

Surviving a school shooting: Impacts on the mental health, education, and earnings of American youth

Other

siepr.stanford.edu

---

That’s just the students. The people impacted is growing at an exponential rate.

Within the same article :

"Although mass school shootings such as the one in Uvalde tend to receive significant media attention, the majority of shootings are thankfully much less deadly and also less widely publicized. In fact, about three-quarters of shootings in 2018 and 2019 led to no fatalities at all, and the vast majority had fewer than two deaths."

Personally, I'm not sure how Stanford specifically defines a 'School Shooting', though it seems fairly clear that they define them as any type of gun violence that occurs in relation to a school. This even includes after-hours disputes between two parties not associated with the schools.

 

[al66pine]

Mass Killings in US.

....
Here are the stats

snipped for focus @Cota332 Thanks for your post.

Interesting to see the data on mass killings, not limited to guns.

From link intro:
"Over the past decade, USA TODAY, along with Northeastern University and The Associated Press, has been tracking all mass killings in the United States. When it comes to gun violence, our database is narrower than some tracking sites, such as the Gun Violence Archive, that include shootings that injure large numbers of people but kill no one. However, our database is broader in other ways. It includes every mass killing since 2006 from all weapons in which four or more people, excluding the offender, were killed within a 24-hour time frame. The database also includes dozens of variables on each incident, offender, victim, and weapon."

The link, again:
https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/graphics/2022/08/18/mass-killings-database-us-events-since-2006/9705311002/

ETA: IDK why post is blue; can't edit that.

 

[Cota332]

Mass Killings in US.
snipped for focus @Cota332 Thanks for your post.
Interesting to see the data on mass killings, not limited to guns.
From link intro:
"Over the past decade, USA TODAY, along with Northeastern University and The Associated Press, has been tracking all mass killings in the United States. When it comes to gun violence, our database is narrower than some tracking sites, such as the Gun Violence Archive, that include shootings that injure large numbers of people but kill no one. However, our database is broader in other ways. It includes every mass killing since 2006 from all weapons in which four or more people, excluding the offender, were killed within a 24-hour time frame. The database also includes dozens of variables on each incident, offender, victim, and weapon."
The link, again:
Mass killing database: Revealing trends, details and anguish of every US event since 2006

ETA: IDK why post is blue; can't edit that.

The very same article also shows clearly that Handguns are by and wide far more prevalent in mass shooting incidents than rifles; dismissing the idea that rifles ought to be more heavily regulated due to these incidents.