Genetic Issues and the FLDS

[mysteriew]

They can't just "say" the kids have brittle bones (or some condition that makes bones vulnerable) and have it be true. This will have to be verified and PROVEN medically/scientifically - and not by some FLDS Dr. either. We have many good Medical Schools and Research Facilities here in Texas and you can bet they will ALL stand in line to research and testify - the Good PR they would get for "helping children" is priceless.

Right now it appears TO ME that the FLDS is scrambling - throwing everything and the kitchen sink at the wall of public opinion and hoping something resonates or sticks. I feel certain the FLDS is in CYA mode - but they are getting hit from every direction because Texas obviously has someone pretty sharp working for CPS in the PR Dept. The judges and CPS aren't just sitting back and defending themselves, but playing some offense too. And here in Texas, it's unlikely that the mainstream Mormon Church is going to pull much weight with the legislature or politicians - certainly it's NOT LIKE NV, AZ and UT in that regard. I feel the prevalence of Mormon faithful in some western states has hindered the prosecution of the FLDS and other similar groups because its embarrassing to them and they fear being tarred themselves with the same broad "Mormon" brush. They don't want to associate mainstream LDS with the FLDS in any way and they feel "regular people" can't discriminate between the two (or don't want to). They have FOR YEARS gone by the rule that if they ignore the FLDS maybe it will just go away. Texas has no such worries or constraints and they frankly don't care WHO looks bad as this all shakes out. Short Creek didn't happen here so Texas did what UTAH, ARIZONA AND NEVADA have spent 50 years trying to AVOID doing. Stopped the FLDS COLD!

Perhaps NOW the FLDS genetic issues (affecting innocent children) due to inbreeding will get NATIONAL ATTENTION instead of being shoved into a closet (literally and figuratively) behind a walled compound.

My Opinion

But in this case, they have chosen a double edged sword to lay out and fall on. OI is considered a rare condition. So if they don't have it, it proves lying and a knowlege of their doing wrong. If it is true, then the fact and the concentration of the disease proves that the is due to the fact and consequences of incest in the compound.

You know when I heard the only toy allowed in the compound was a trampoline, I thought that was odd and weird. No toys but a trampoline is allowed.... Yes, I am wondering if perhaps this wasn't a "test" by Jeffs. A test for brittle bone disease.

 

[Leila]

Two hundred years ago, it was quite common for cousins to marry and have children. As we became aware of the role of genetics in the furtherance of diseases and disabilities, states began to enact laws pertaining to who could marry. Today, every state has laws on the books regarding marriage between relatives. You cannot marry your brother, cousin, uncle, or anyone within a close genetic relationship.

Unfortunately, the FLDS children will be studied for their genetics as it pertains to incest and family intermarriage.

I agree that genetics will be the downfall of the FLDS civilization, but we can't wait for that to happen through the natural process. Imagine how difficult it would be if the FLDS were closely monitored by outside agencies and forced to adhere to strict policies.

 

[Vegas Bride]

I was reading on one website about the flds and it was listing the history and said that Warren Jeffs married many of his father's wives including his own mother! Has anyone else heard of this?
Every day this whole mess just gets sicker and sicker.

VB

 

[mysteriew]

I was reading on one website about the flds and it was listing the history and said that Warren Jeffs married many of his father's wives including his own mother! Has anyone else heard of this?
Every day this whole mess just gets sicker and sicker.

VB

We had discussed that he married all but two of his father's wives. But we weren't sure if he had married his mother or not.

 

[mykodiak]

Or if he actually had sex with her. He's sick enough to do it...question is...is SHE?

 

[mollymalone]

Or if he actually had sex with her. He's sick enough to do it...question is...is SHE?

If she was raised the same, which is likely, whatever her own personal feelings about it she probably would do it for her own safety. However, it's my feeling that since she's one of the older women that gets taken on as a wife that she would be among those wives that are relegated to supporting him and reflecting his glory and nothing more. it seemed he was much more interested in the younger wives but I wouldn't put anything past him, especially since he was intent upon showing everyone, including his mother that HE was the one in charge.

 

[southcitymom]

If she was raised the same, which is likely, whatever her own personal feelings about it she probably would do it for her own safety. However, it's my feeling that since she's one of the older women that gets taken on as a wife that she would be among those wives that are relegated to supporting him and reflecting his glory and nothing more. it seemed he was much more interested in the younger wives but I wouldn't put anything past him, especially since he was intent upon showing everyone, including his mother that HE was the one in charge.

She might also do it because incest was a common way of life for their religious beliefs and was handed down from generation to generation with the Bible used to back it up. Like any other behavior, if you see it enough and it is practiced enough by those around you, you will come to perceive it as normal - in this case, perhaps, even as righteous.

Incest is repugnant to most of us because its "taboo" has been drilled into our consciousness over the years. The FLDS may have had a completely different viewpoint drilled into theirs.

 

[mysteriew]

If she was raised the same, which is likely, whatever her own personal feelings about it she probably would do it for her own safety. However, it's my feeling that since she's one of the older women that gets taken on as a wife that she would be among those wives that are relegated to supporting him and reflecting his glory and nothing more. it seemed he was much more interested in the younger wives but I wouldn't put anything past him, especially since he was intent upon showing everyone, including his mother that HE was the one in charge.

Actually it has crossed my mind to wonder if perhaps his mother might have been part of the reason Jeffs is as warped as he is. A young woman whose 'husband' moved onto a newer woman or women, being neglected, craving attention- maybe even craving power. Could she, would she have turned to her son to fill the space?

 

[Floh]

Actually it has crossed my mind to wonder if perhaps his mother might have been part of the reason Jeffs is as warped as he is. A young woman whose 'husband' moved onto a newer woman or women, being neglected, craving attention- maybe even craving power. Could she, would she have turned to her son to fill the space?

Whoa! OMG!

 

[mollymalone]

She might also do it because incest was a common way of life for their religious beliefs and was handed down from generation to generation with the Bible used to back it up. Like any other behavior, if you see it enough and it is practiced enough by those around you, you will come to perceive it as normal - in this case, perhaps, even as righteous.

Incest is repugnant to most of us because its "taboo" has been drilled into our consciousness over the years. The FLDS may have had a completely different viewpoint drilled into theirs.

Absolutely. She would perceive it as normal. Rulon Jeffs fostered the idea that he would live forever and reportedly his wives were shocked that he didn't. Imagine being taught that for most of your life that he's a god on earth, that he'll live forever and you beside him, and then he dies and all of a sudden your son says you're MY wife now. Even if she perceives this as normal there has to be some angst over this, although they're taught never to express it.

 

[mollymalone]

Actually it has crossed my mind to wonder if perhaps his mother might have been part of the reason Jeffs is as warped as he is. A young woman whose 'husband' moved onto a newer woman or women, being neglected, craving attention- maybe even craving power. Could she, would she have turned to her son to fill the space?

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchentable/msg040039125187.html?7Rulon Jeffs was an FLDS prophet (their words, not mine) for his entire life and a more abusive man you'll never know. He is Warren Jeff's father. (On the side, and the woman on Dr Phil confirmed this, Warren Jeff's sisters were known to be vicious and abusive mothers, disciplining their children with beatings and emotional abuse as well.)

Her mother (Jeff's sister, bred, born and raised in polygamy) took her children and ran many years ago.
--------------
http://www.amw.com/fugitives/video_photos.cfm?id=33750
Warren Jeffs' own half brother Ward Jeffs says Jeffs would take advantage of his position as father's favorite to engage in sexual indulgences and activitys with boys, with girls, young girls, it didn't seem to matter. "If you tell on me and you know what Daddy will do to you." Warren stuck to daddy.
He got put through college which was rare, rare out there. He was fascinated with Hitler books, obsessed with the power and control."

I'm trying to find the link/article that stated that Warren Jeffs almost died as a baby and as a result he became his father's favorite, grooming him for the "priesthood" etc. Since their way of doing things requires the biological mothers not to show favoritism or love towards their own children, and the children are to be rasied by multiple mothers, I'm doubtful that his mother would turn to him to fill the space. As we've heard the men rule and it's possibly unlikely that Warren would have turned to her as she as a mere woman would have no power in that group. He stuck close to Rulon from all accounts.


Edited to add: If the neice and Jeffs sister and brother are to believed other family members are violent and abusive. Now, was that because of nature or nuture?

 

[mysteriew]

Not saying it is fact, I'm just saying I wondered. The other siblings may be vicious, but that doesn't mean they have sexual perversions. But it seems that Jeffs does. Raped by his father? Probably. But we have heard from other households that sometimes favoritism of their own children does exist, esp. among senior wives... it is just something that they don't want to come to the alleged father's attention.

Love is a basic human need. If a woman doesn't get it from her husband, she will look for it among others around her, including her children. With the sister wives there is unexpressed jealousy and rivalry. So that leaves the kids. How does a woman forbidden to show favoritism and raised in a sexually charged atmosphere show her child love?

 

[mollymalone]

Not saying it is fact, I'm just saying I wondered. The other siblings may be vicious, but that doesn't mean they have sexual perversions. But it seems that Jeffs does. Raped by his father? Probably. But we have heard from other households that sometimes favoritism of their own children does exist, esp. among senior wives... it is just something that they don't want to come to the alleged father's attention.

Love is a basic human need. If a woman doesn't get it from her husband, she will look for it among others around her, including her children. With the sister wives there is unexpressed jealousy and rivalry. So that leaves the kids. How does a woman forbidden to show favoritism and raised in a sexually charged atmosphere show her child love?

If she doesn't want to be beaten, she doesn't. I'm sure there's some sort of favoritism going on when possible.
If it's true that Jeffs almost died as a baby and Rulon was attached to him, he might have allowed the mother to have a little more to do with him than would otherwise be allowed, but from what I've read of Rulon...I doubt he was any kinder to her than anyone else, but perhaps she managed to find time to be with him.

 

[mollymalone]

"Jeff's mother and other Flds members see him weekly and attend his hearings." I suspect she's among the "trusted" women in the sect and her visits might indicate that they share some affection.

 

[FlowerChild]

Start with Rulon Jeffs, add a mother who was 1 of 40, mix in the brainwashing and isolation of the FLDS and add a dash of complete unquestioned power and what comes out of the oven? A man who was sickly as a child, not physically strong, and grew up unattractive and wimpy but with a growing power of his own and with no need to be anything more "human" because Daddy was hand-picking his child brides from the whole FLDS - his young wives were handed to Warren, along with the mantle of power of FLDS "Prophet-hood". It was a recipe for a twisted, cruel, egomaniac sociopathic man who cares for nothing or no-one outside himself and his own schemes, perversions and power.


Rulon Jeffs "created" Warren in his own image - but as warped as Rulon was, Warren is worse...Warren knows right from wrong (he is very smart and intuitive and manipulative) but he doesn't believe the rules (any rules) apply to HIM - basically he is spoiled AND sociopathic.

And just think - there is ANOTHER future leader working his way thru the FLDS ranks right now - Heaven Help the members of the FLDS....

My Opinion

 

[mollymalone]

Well, the below may be in many of the cases, but Jeffs is unpredictable and a control freak.

http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatch/the_experts_corner/index.html
Brooke Adams: There are a few men who have many, many wives” I call them mega-families” but it is far more common for a plural family to consist of a man and two or three women, with about 20 to 30 children. I've been told that some of these men with really big families organize outings with their children by age range. All the 10-year-olds get together and go do something with dad, for instance.

Warren Jeffs is said to have a huge number of wives, too, as did his father. But in the Jeffs' case, many of those are wives only in the caretaker sense, not in real, procreative marriages.

 

[mysteriew]

Well, the below may be in many of the cases, but Jeffs is unpredictable and a control freak.

http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatch/the_experts_corner/index.html
Brooke Adams: There are a few men who have many, many wives” I call them mega-families” but it is far more common for a plural family to consist of a man and two or three women, with about 20 to 30 children. I've been told that some of these men with really big families organize outings with their children by age range. All the 10-year-olds get together and go do something with dad, for instance.

Warren Jeffs is said to have a huge number of wives, too, as did his father. But in the Jeffs' case, many of those are wives only in the caretaker sense, not in real, procreative marriages.

I have to confess, this seems supportive of my theory that Jeffs is a closet pedo that is attracted to boys. How better to hide the fact that he is a pedo than by many wives- most of whom are caretaker wives. Sort of like the old days when a closet gay guy might marry to hide his sexual inclinations.

Was it Jeffs who declared that the "holy underwear" was to be worn during sex?

 

[mollymalone]

I have to confess, this seems supportive of my theory that Jeffs is a closet pedo that is attracted to boys. How better to hide the fact that he is a pedo than by many wives- most of whom are caretaker wives. Sort of like the old days when a closet gay guy might marry to hide his sexual inclinations.

Was it Jeffs who declared that the "holy underwear" was to be worn during sex?

No, that has been something that was dictated over time by various leaders.

That's true, in fact his brother Ward Jeffs stated on a video clip at AMW, that Warren used his power to indulge in his sexual activities with boys, girls, young girls, it didn't seem to matter.

 

[mollymalone]

Back to the genetic issues, it's crazy that the doc at the ranch, Barlow, would come out and make statements about the bone disease when there are already statistics out there that show his comments to be lies.

 

[mysteriew]

Back to the genetic issues, it's crazy that the doc at the ranch, Barlow, would come out and make statements about the bone disease when there are already statistics out there that show his comments to be lies.

What statistics is that?