Glimpses into Casey's Frame of Mind During Solitude *REVISITED*

[Curious Me]

I remember being taken aback by the number of images of skulls and hearts that she was drawn to. There was a running theme/pattern in that she was drawn to these images over and over. A sort of death and love enmeshment that I found quite disturbing.

BBM

Me too. It certainly seems to romantize death and put a magic spin on it. I wonder if Casey was soothing herself in some sick twisted way. Don't ask me how an apple carved like a death skull could be cool at a time like that, so what was Casey thinking.???????????????????????????????????? (Death is not really death, and so therefore I didn't snuff out Caylee's life) The Love pic has a foreboding message because the big love covers a scene that looks like where the remains were found. Alas, it was for Love.

The actual pics of skeltons though makes me wonder if she didn't visit the site and know Caylee was turning into bones.

Then, the poster "Why do people..." Casey's Guilt is Obvious to anyone really thinking about the timing of her posting this. If a jury tries to understand why a frantic mother of a missing daughter would take the time to post that poster on her myspace they will conclude the mother knew she'd be facing the DP.

Was Casey haunted by Caylee? I think she was sufficiently getting over it little by little in the 31 days. I don't see Casey as very deep. She feeds herself the same garbage lies she feeds others.

 

[Chiquita71]

Hello WS

Very interesting subject for a thread. Thank you. FWIW I find the "love" picture haunting. The idea that Casey has a twisted idea of love, hits me as right on. I could see that as being the "whole" issue with narcissistic people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissus_(mythology)

He was exceptionally proud, in that he disdained those who loved him. As divine punishment he fell in love with his own reflection in a pool, not realizing it was merely an image, and he wasted away to death, not being able to leave the beauty of his own reflection.

He came across a deep pool in a forest, from which he took a drink. As he did, he saw his reflection for the first time in his life and fell in love with the beautiful boy he was looking at, not realizing it was himself. Eventually, after pining away for a while, he realized that the image he saw in the pool was a reflection of himself.

I'm just using this myth as a archetype for what we are discussing. If you read the whole Wiki page, you can see there are tons of versions of this myth(and all others). Love, real love is a complicated thing to explain. It is something that I know what it is when I experience it and know when it is that I am not. But in that vein, I am drawn to the same opinion that what Casey thinks is love is not what I define as love: so I see her as having a twisted love.

What is interesting that you guys are bringing up, and I have no opinion on yet is does Casey think she has a twisted sense of love?

I think Casey might miss what she received from Caylee...the kudos for being a "good mom", the cuddles, snuggles, kisses and unconditional love. -Jolynna Sorry to quote you like that Jolynna ITA. Other examples of Casey's idea of love is that she left Jesse because he loved Caylee more than him.

I am married, but have no children and I would expect my husband to love any child we would have more than me. You bet. His eyes should go to her when he comes in the room and we are both there. In my idea of love, my husband would love me enough to love our child more.

Casey was given love by Jesse and Caylee and it meant nothing to her. I think the part of narcissus myth that also fits Casey is her contempt of those that love her. Really love her. Her love/hate of Cindy is, imho because Cindy gave back that(and may have taught her) conditional love and not unconditional love which is real. Casey also had disdain for Christina who I felt was the only one to show true concern or love for Caylee in a way I could recognize as love.

:twocents:

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Something about the "LOVE" picture has always bothered me but I cannot put my finger on why. Maybe I am reading too much into it but I think it has a lot of meaning to this case and Casey's frame of mind but I can't figure out exactly what it means or why it bothers me so much.

The word "love" is in a very unusual script, in that it doesn't convey the emotion of love. It almost looks like a skull to me. And the curved, smeared underline looks like an evil smile.

I think it was designed specifically to bother people with its subtle message.

 

[Pensfan]

I have been contemplating why and where KC came across The Apparition by Gustave Moreau. Clearly, KC wasn’t a painter and I can’t imagine her touring art galleries (unless they passed out lots of free wine). I have to believe that she was studied this during some art appreciation class in her high school. Read what the painter wanted his painting to depict. It is just creepy! KC must have believed her activities emulated this painting.

{If you look closely at this painting it depicts an executioner with a blood-stained sword, an almost nude looking woman, and the head of a dead person (St. John the Baptist).}

This is an art critics description of the painting:
The beautiful, nude princess becomes Woman while watching the execution and seeing the severed head. She becomes more refined, savage and exquisite. She was awakened from the dulled senses of man. She was bewitched and subdueded with her charm that was cultivated in sacrilegious beds and impious hothouses.

If KC believed this painting was relevant to her “activities/murder” at this time, consider the following.
The beautiful, nude KC becomes Woman while watching the death of Caylee and seeing her dead body. KC becomes more refined, savage and exquisite. KC was awakened from the dulled senses of man. KC was bewitched and subdued with her charm that was cultivated in sacrilegious beds and impious hothouses.

Other art critics have stated this r/t this painting:
The woman's gaze (the woman staring at the dead head) has been described as a combination of success at what she has just accomplished, and fear of what she has just done.

Very disturbing, eh?

 

[logicalgirl]

I remember being taken aback by the number of images of skulls and hearts that she was drawn to. There was a running theme/pattern in that she was drawn to these images over and over. A sort of death and love enmeshment that I found quite disturbing.

The weird thing the skulls and hearts are a very big theme with the 20 - 40 crowd. Women have them on everything - their sneakers, their gloves, scarves and mini-babies t-shirts. And usually the colors are black, white and hot pink.

I don't understand the attraction but I see them everywhere.

 

[trying to make sense]

In the love picture the girl is standing the same way I have seen Casey stand in several pics, it looks like it could be her. Not showing the face ,could she be hinting that she put Caylee in the dark, in the woods? Just my take on it. She did it out of love? In her twisted thinking.

 

[seagull65]

Just posting from the front of the thread here, haven't caught up yet, wasn't there a thread on this before? Still interesting though and theory well put by Harmony!

I would only change the parts that say "Tony finds her crying" or "Tony observes her doing such and such" to Tony says that. Tony and Cameron also said the Pontiac was back at their apartment after it was left at Amscot and various other things. Tony also gave certain reasons /scenarios for why he was at her car on a couple of occasions, he also said he never smelled anything unusual when standing by her car trunk and so on, those are his explanations, none of the roommates mention ever smelling anything unusual when her car was parked at their place either, etc. Those are just his/their statements (or omissions) of course, maybe fact, maybe not.
Also, the "pings" only show that her phone pinged off the cell towers that serve her parents' and Lee's houses, IIRC, right? Nothing specific about her ever being at the remains site, so she could have just been driving by her house or Lee's, whether thinking about going in to get some of her stuff, considering going in to see members of her family, who knows. We don't know if she knew anything about the remains site or ever went to the remains site, IIRC, do we? Just theoretical.
I always found the skull icons and so on that she had in her computer interesting, I expect her peers had similar ones since the skull motif is everywhere with young people now, on clothes, on webpages, etc (even on little kids' stuff unfortunately), but it's still interesting to me. Do we have any way of knowing if anyone else at Sutton Pl or elsewhere could have downloaded those to her computer?) Thanks for the thread

 

[Curious Me]

Narcissists always mistakely think Love should be Unconditional Love. They test it by doing outrageous things to other people, and feeding them guilt trips about how they don't forgive enough or love unconditionally. Don't buy it please.

Now, Casey's love is pure, and heart-shaped, and timeless, and transcends even murder and death. Caylee's spirit would rise up like a red balloon. A heart-shaped sticker and a big loopy Love word to cover up her own childish, spiteful actions. Barbie dolls with their heads pulled off behavior! Rage and Anger at her own life. Killing Caylee was symbolically killing herself?

Help, it's a maze here in Casey's mind, it's like a maze or labyrinth.

Dictionary defines labyrinth as
1 a : a place constructed of or full of intricate passageways and blind alleys b : a maze (as in a garden) formed by paths separated by high hedges

2 : something extremely complex or tortuous in structure, arrangement, or character : intricacy, perplexity <a labyrinth of swamps and channels>

3 : a tortuous anatomical structure; especially : the internal ear or its bony or membranous part

 

[seagull65]

I have exactly the same feeling about the skull motif that's everywhere, logical girl. It's sad to me that that is actually all over young people's and even small children's clothing and notebooks and everything else. But it is. And extreme horror images like that are all over TV even during prime kid hours all the time. It's shocking and very sad to me that that is what's out there for our kids in this day and age, disgusting really that nothing is done about it because images like that do actually frighten young children (at least ones that aren't totally desensitized to it already). In my time we had the happy face everywhere, compare that to this skull symbol decor kids have today, that's like today's "happy face". Very sad if you ask me! I think it really speaks volumes about the sort of culture that's out there today, which is all about destruction/negativity but that's just me. OK, now tell us how you really feel, Seagull LOL

p.s. Decomposition and putrefaction are common themes in cartoons, movies, etc now. Look at what has happened to Halloween, too. It's been turned into the "horror" holiday. It didn't use to be like that at all, trust me, I've been around since the 60's. Last Halloween, I went to a Halloween store looking for some cheerful Halloween decor. There wasn't a single item. Even at Party City there was only one smiling ghost, the rest was bloody/gory stuff. One store I went in, I couldn't get over it, I called friends after seeing it and we were all just as outraged. The store only had things representing corpses and dismembered body parts. I am not kidding. I was SO glad I didn't have my child with me. The store should have been rated R or worse, no kids allowed inside. But there were children and babies in there being exposed to this stuff. I rolled my cart through this store looking in vain for the "cheerful stuff" aisle (it didn't exist), there were literally piles of gory "body parts", and lifesize "corpses", even rubber "baby corpses". I have NEVER seen it this bad before. I was literally sickened. I thought this is hell, this is crazy. I left in a hurry.

I say this as a person who is not particularly bothered by Dia de los Muertos type imagery either, by the way. For me there is still something cheerful in those traditional images, they are not sinister to me like this new type of skull decor that we've got everywhere all the time. Wonder what horror and skull icons Casey's friends had on their computers?

 

[Jolynna]

Hello WS

Very interesting subject for a thread. Thank you. FWIW I find the "love" picture haunting. The idea that Casey has a twisted idea of love, hits me as right on. I could see that as being the "whole" issue with narcissistic people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissus_%28mythology%29

He was exceptionally proud, in that he disdained those who loved him. As divine punishment he fell in love with his own reflection in a pool, not realizing it was merely an image, and he wasted away to death, not being able to leave the beauty of his own reflection.

He came across a deep pool in a forest, from which he took a drink. As he did, he saw his reflection for the first time in his life and fell in love with the beautiful boy he was looking at, not realizing it was himself. Eventually, after pining away for a while, he realized that the image he saw in the pool was a reflection of himself.

I'm just using this myth as a archetype for what we are discussing. If you read the whole Wiki page, you can see there are tons of versions of this myth(and all others). Love, real love is a complicated thing to explain. It is something that I know what it is when I experience it and know when it is that I am not. But in that vein, I am drawn to the same opinion that what Casey thinks is love is not what I define as love: so I see her as having a twisted love.

What is interesting that you guys are bringing up, and I have no opinion on yet is does Casey think she has a twisted sense of love?

I think Casey might miss what she received from Caylee...the kudos for being a "good mom", the cuddles, snuggles, kisses and unconditional love. -Jolynna Sorry to quote you like that Jolynna ITA. Other examples of Casey's idea of love is that she left Jesse because he loved Caylee more than him.

I am married, but have no children and I would expect my husband to love any child we would have more than me. You bet. His eyes should go to her when he comes in the room and we are both there. In my idea of love, my husband would love me enough to love our child more.

Casey was given love by Jesse and Caylee and it meant nothing to her. I think the part of narcissus myth that also fits Casey is her contempt of those that love her. Really love her. Her love/hate of Cindy is, imho because Cindy gave back that(and may have taught her) conditional love and not unconditional love which is real. Casey also had disdain for Christina who I felt was the only one to show true concern or love for Caylee in a way I could recognize as love.

:twocents:

I totally agree.

Besides moving on VERY quickly after Caylee's death-- she wasn't mourning at Blockbusters--look how Casey treated Amy. She took Amy's money and sacrificed the friendship so she could buy her "new" BFFs beer and groceries. She trashed her family to JG, JG's family, Tony, Tony's friends, Annie and her new jail friends. (There are probably more people Casey trashed her family to but those were the first to come to mind.) Despite JG's being the guy Casey ran to when she needed something, a shower, gas or shoulder to cry on, Casey was quick to toss him under the bus.

Casey is able to instantly establish intimacy--every female she meets is her "sister" and every man she knows is one of "her boys". But, when a "sister" or one of "her boys" stops being useful, that "sister" or "boy" better watch his or her back. I see a pattern of behavior that includes what happened to Caylee.

When Casey was uploading skeleton pictures to her facebook, she could have been romanticizing Caylee's condition and what she had done. Ohhh in this picture the skeletons are kissing. How idyllic...together forever. Ohhh...they are in love...just like me..it is so beautiful...just like me...ahhhh love...it is worth any price...

 

[Harmony 2]

I am aware that the skulls are a trend and in fashion these days. I just find it wierd that they were being collected during the time period her baby was missing/dead.

 

[Curious Me]

The weird thing the skulls and hearts are a very big theme with the 20 - 40 crowd. Women have them on everything - their sneakers, their gloves, scarves and mini-babies t-shirts. And usually the colors are black, white and hot pink.

I don't understand the attraction but I see them everywhere.

It's true, logicalgirl. A few years ago when I saw skulls were getting popular on really good, pricey clothing. I thought it would never take off. It did! I think you have to be younger to think it's that cool, I said. But by younger, I didn't think even babies would be wearing skull fashion!

Casey embracing the skull fashion would not seem so odd if it wasn't for her daughter ending up being reduced to bones in the woods. Just saying.

 

[Jolynna]

It's true, logicalgirl. A few years ago when I saw skulls were getting popular on really good, pricey clothing. I thought it would never take off. It did! I think you have to be younger to think it's that cool, I said. But by younger, I didn't think even babies would be wearing skull fashion!

Casey embracing the skull fashion would not seem so odd if it wasn't for her daughter ending up being reduced to bones in the woods. Just saying.

I agree. Most wear skull logos don't have their children's remains lying in a trash pile next to where they "used" to live. And that is "used to live" right up to the last time anyone ever saw the child alive.

 

[seagull65]

I still can't get over how much the one picture looks like Casey standing in that one photo in the backyard of her parents' house (she was filming Caylee on Easter looked like, one of her parents was photographing both of them). But supposedly it is just another photo by some photographer or artist out there IIRC, right? What a coincidence Casey happened to find that particular photo if that is the case.

 

[seagull65]

I totally agree.

Besides moving on VERY quickly after Caylee's death-- she wasn't mourning at Blockbusters--..

sorry, snipped by me. Just wanted to point out that we don't know for sure if Casey had any knowledge at that time that Caylee was dead or in danger. She could have known that, or suspected that, of course but we don't know that for sure. She might have thought at that time that whoever (she thought) Caylee was with was not someone who would harm her.

 

[Curious Me]

I totally agree.

Besides moving on VERY quickly after Caylee's death-- she wasn't mourning at Blockbusters--look how Casey treated Amy. She took Amy's money and sacrificed the friendship so she could buy her "new" BFFs beer and groceries. She trashed her family to JG, JG's family, Tony, Tony's friends, Annie and her new jail friends. (There are probably more people Casey trashed her family to but those were the first to come to mind.) Despite JG's being the guy Casey ran to when she needed something, a shower, gas or shoulder to cry on, Casey was quick to toss him under the bus.

Casey is able to instantly establish intimacy--every female she meets is her "sister" and every man she knows is one of "her boys". But, when a "sister" or one of "her boys" stops being useful, that "sister" or "boy" better watch his or her back. I see a pattern of behavior that includes what happened to Caylee.

When Casey was uploading skeleton pictures to her facebook, she could have been romanticizing Caylee's condition and what she had done. Ohhh in this picture the skeletons are kissing. How idyllic...together forever. Ohhh...they are in love...just like me..it is so beautiful...just like me...ahhhh love...it is worth any price...

BBM

Yes, oh yes. First the instant intimacy, then later the discard of a useless "loved one". That is the typical behavior of a narcissist.

Jolynna, it is your last paragraph that really captured the magical spin Casey must put on Caylee's death to avoid the burden of the truth

It seems that Casey buried Caylee under a bunch of cool imagery as a way to deal with what she had done.

 

[Jolynna]

sorry, snipped by me. Just wanted to point out that we don't know for sure if Casey had any knowledge at that time that Caylee was dead or in danger. She could have known that, or suspected that, of course but we don't know that for sure. She might have thought at that time that whoever (she thought) Caylee was with was not someone who would harm her.

I think that 31+ days later when Casey being interviewed by LE and told them how Caylee was just fine...she'd talked to Caylee that very day, Casey wasn't showing a whole lot of concern for Caylee's welfare. Shoot...even after December 11, after 6 months of supposedly thinking Caylee could come home, Casey seemed to move on VERY quickly and was soon writing to her new BFF how Caylee was "better off".

You've got to see how Casey's poem and her collection of "art" during the very time her child was skeletonizing might be eyebrow raising? Maybe the anti-DP cartoon with the teddy bear was a premonition of things to come?

 

[Jolynna]

BBM

Yes, oh yes. First the instant intimacy, then later the discard of a useless "loved one". That is the typical behavior of a narcissist.

Jolynna, it is your last paragraph that really captured the magical spin Casey must put on Caylee's death to avoid the burden of the truth

It seems that Casey buried Caylee under a bunch of cool imagery as a way to deal with what she had done.

Wow to the sentence you bolded. I can feel prickles going up the back of my neck, I think your whole post just said it so well. That is exactly what I think Casey's poem and "art" were about.

 

[seagull65]

I agree. Most wear skull logos don't have their children's remains lying in a trash pile next to where they "used" to live. And that is "used to live" right up to the last time anyone ever saw the child alive.

But we don't know if she was the killer (or even for sure if she was involved as an accessory). She could be either. Or the killer could be someone else, maybe they have skull and horror icons in their computer, or maybe not. We don't know.

To me, the popular theories (i.e. the narcissist theory and the Casey as murderer theory) could be true, but I find it's used as a circular argument a lot, each one supposed to prove the other (I don't necessarily mean by anyone here.) The whole narcissist theory seemed to arise to explain why she was supposedly showing no remorse, based on the premise that she was the murderer. But then she must be the murderer because her narcissism motivated the murder, etc. In other words: (a) She is the murderer but she's showing no remorse, so she's a narcissist. (b) She's a narcissist so that must be why she murdered. Could be true, or might not be what happened IMO.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

But we don't know if she was the killer (or even for sure if she was involved as an accessory). She could be either. Or the killer could be someone else, maybe they have skull and horror icons in their computer, or maybe not. We don't know.

To me, the popular theories (i.e. the narcissist theory and the Casey as murderer theory) could be true, but I find it's used as a circular argument a lot, each one supposed to prove the other (I don't necessarily mean by anyone here.) The whole narcissist theory seemed to arise to explain why she was supposedly showing no remorse, based on the premise that she was the murderer. But then she must be the murderer because her narcissism motivated the murder, etc. In other words: (a) She is the murderer but she's showing no remorse, so she's a narcissist. (b) She's a narcissist so that must be why she murdered. Could be true, or might not be what happened IMO.

Those theories are in conjunction with the 31 days and lying to police though. They make more sense when you look at how she behaved.