Has the top-level perpetrator been arrested?

[mikeysmommom]

http://www.weartv.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wear_vid_3175.shtml

I do believe the crap is gonna be hitting the fan soon!

 

[passionflower]

This is just the tip of the iceberg. IMO, the whole story is yet to come!
Real shocker.......IMO

 

[mikeysmommom]

It sure is a HUMDINGER of a case !!!!!!!

 

[mitzi]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/210663/page/1
read all the pages please!

Hmmm...this is interesting...from the above article:

" In fact, his financing company was cited and fined twice by the state for imposing excessive charges on buyers, says Crystal Spencer, a former lawyer for the Billings family."

When did Crystal Spencer cease to be the Billings attorney? :waitasec:

**Also, seems to be quite a few peeps interviewed in the article that are requesting anonymity, out of fear!

This should be an interesting case to follow, especially since it involves the "Sunshine State". ie. lots of discovery.

Geesh...as I continue reading the article, I keep finding interesting little tidbits to comment on, such as the fact that the Escambia County Sheriff's Office were already investigating Tice even before Billings was murdered, at the request of Billings...and had recently informed Billings that they were making progress in their investigation.

 

[Chemaster]

I am sorry to say it but there really hasn't been NO new news this week. All of these developments were discussed by a few select posters here several weeks ago. (not me)

Great job for those who uncovered most of these details weeks ago. Excellent detective work!

I believe that WS should consider having a few semi-private rooms (on special occasion) where cutting edge ideas can be discussed, developed and matured before either dismissing them, going public or notifying law enforcement. This would allow their detective work to continue with the sharing of ideas without the fear of lawsuits.

JMO

 

[Lossmitpro]

The thread starter asks:

Has the top-level perpetrator been arrested?

I believe with 95% certainly that the answer is now "Yes."

Note that everything in this post is my opinion only, based on the facts and information presented publicly, to date.

Some snips:

* Henry Cabell Tice, 61... wrote worthless checks totaling more than $10,000 to Worldco Financial Services Inc., a company owned by the Billings family.

* Sheriff David Morgan has made clear that his main interest in Tice relates to whether he was involved in the July 9 slayings of the Billingses

* Billings and Tice knew each other through their respective used car businesses in Northwest Florida.

* Tice was being questioned in connection with the murders along with being arrested on the grand theft charge. The Sheriff’s Office has questioned Tice before.

* Tice told investigators that he had “a father and son relationship’’ with Leonard Patrick Gonzalez Jr.

* Gonzalez, according to a co-defendant’s statement to investigators, fired the multiple shots that killed the couple.

* Tice said he spoke with Gonzalez “on a daily basis,’’ according to Morgan.

* Morgan also said Tice told investigators Thursday he had business dealings with “the Mexican mafia” in relation to selling used cars.

http://www.pnj.com/article/20090806...n-to-Billings-case&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

Tice and Gonzales were closer than I think was previously suspected by most.

Gonzales and Wiggins were 'thick as thieves' and both appear inclined to flashy criminality, almost for the thrill, ego and bragging potential, and fun of it as much as for financial gain.

I'm sure Tice was involved with many shady characters, but IMHO, his purposeful bringing up of the "Mexican mafia" is intended to lay a defense that they, not he, offed the Billings, when in fact only HE had compelling motivation to do so, having defrauded Billings, spent all the money, and written bad checks to him that Billings was making noise about. The "Mexican Mafia" could care less if the guy Tice owed money to got taken out or not, leaving Tice in the lurch -- hey, there are always other unscrupulous guys to buy cars from, and crooks generally do not go clean up other crooks unrelated messes in foreign countries, especially when it includes the shocking and very public murder of upright-appearing citizens in front of their children. The mob just does not work that way. Very bad for business. If Billings had done the mafia wrong, then maybe he gets hit as a message. But there is no indication of that at all. Tice was the retailer, Billings was the bankroller, who got stiffed by Tice.

No, this was Tice alone, going to his little buddy, who had a desire to be a big man and 'make his bones' as a tough org crime type, and Tice essentially promised him money for the 'hit', while Gonzales used the robbery and potential money to induce the others, while Wiggins was in it for the thrill of an operation with her friend Jr., and potential booty from the safe.

I imagine that the little safe contained promissory notes, and/or other incriminating/damaging evidence against Tice, so Tice planned to:


1) Remove his financial problem and legal liability - killing Billlings,
2) Let Gonzalez profit from any 'extras',
3) Keep his own hands 'clean' by not being involved in the physical operation, and by having it be a 'gang' of people doing a home invasion 'robbery', not just a .45 to the head in a parking lot to remove his nemesis.


And that's it.

I suspect there is at least one major co-conspirator that has been virtually TOTALLY unnamed during the press coverage of the events, but other than that one non-violent confederate, I think all of the gang is in hand cuffs.

No CIA, no "Mexican Mafia" hit, no tons of drugs stuffed in used cars -- at least as part of the motivation and mechanics of this specific crime. I think that the freeman, tax stuff, and a dozen other tantalizing threads are bizarre, many may remain intriguing, but just like a lot of crimes once understood and detailed, the ESSENTIALS are mundane, obvious, and sometimes stupid and trivial, and leave a lot of paths that *seemed* fruitful and likely just hanging in the air, because they were just not involved in the events.

 

[Miss Muffet]

When did Crystal Spencer cease to be the Billings attorney? :waitasec:

I'm loving this! :blowkiss:

 

[UnderDog]

The thread starter asks:


I believe with 95% certainly that the answer is now "Yes."

Note that everything in this post is my opinion only, based on the facts and information presented publicly, to date.

Some snips:

http://www.pnj.com/article/20090806...n-to-Billings-case&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

Tice and Gonzales were closer than I think was previously suspected by most.

Gonzales and Wiggins were 'thick as thieves' and both appear inclined to flashy criminality, almost for the thrill, ego and bragging potential, and fun of it as much as for financial gain.

I'm sure Tice was involved with many shady characters, but IMHO, his purposeful bringing up of the "Mexican mafia" is intended to lay a defense that they, not he, offed the Billings, when in fact only HE had compelling motivation to do so, having defrauded Billings, spent all the money, and written bad checks to him that Billings was making noise about. The "Mexican Mafia" could care less if the guy Tice owed money to got taken out or not, leaving Tice in the lurch -- hey, there are always other unscrupulous guys to buy cars from, and crooks generally do not go clean up other crooks unrelated messes in foreign countries, especially when it includes the shocking and very public murder of upright-appearing citizens in front of their children. The mob just does not work that way. Very bad for business. If Billings had done the mafia wrong, then maybe he gets hit as a message. But there is no indication of that at all. Tice was the retailer, Billings was the bankroller, who got stiffed by Tice.

No, this was Tice alone, going to his little buddy, who had a desire to be a big man and 'make his bones' as a tough org crime type, and Tice essentially promised him money for the 'hit', while Gonzales used the robbery and potential money to induce the others, while Wiggins was in it for the thrill of an operation with her friend Jr., and potential booty from the safe.

I imagine that the little safe contained promissory notes, and/or other incriminating/damaging evidence against Tice, so Tice planned to:


1) Remove his financial problem and legal liability - killing Billlings,
2) Let Gonzalez profit from any 'extras',
3) Keep his own hands 'clean' by not being involved in the physical operation, and by having it be a 'gang' of people doing a home invasion 'robbery', not just a .45 to the head in a parking lot to remove his nemesis.


And that's it.

I suspect there is at least one major co-conspirator that has been virtually TOTALLY unnamed during the press coverage of the events, but other than that one non-violent confederate, I think all of the gang is in hand cuffs.

No CIA, no "Mexican Mafia" hit, no tons of drugs stuffed in used cars -- at least as part of the motivation and mechanics of this specific crime. I think that the freeman, tax stuff, and a dozen other tantalizing threads are bizarre, many may remain intriguing, but just like a lot of crimes once understood and detailed, the ESSENTIALS are mundane, obvious, and sometimes stupid and trivial, and leave a lot of paths that *seemed* fruitful and likely just hanging in the air, because they were just not involved in the events.

I respectfully disagree. The case has expanded into an international car theft ring with multiple state agencies and Federal agencies investigating more than "Cab" Tice. Human trafficking has been hinted at as well. Drug trafficking is almost a certainty. If Tice hadn't been "vacationing" in another country, I might agree that it was confined to the local power-brokers and Cab lost his "cool". But this is much bigger than this schmuck named Tice that somehow has lost any trace of his wealth. I asked in another post what could have tempted Sumner to destroy his life? He had a growing business with a good rep in the "pimp my ride" industry. Stallworth is another example of someone that was offered much more, or threatened with death. Tice wasn't going to kill these guys. Do you think Gonzales could get away with threatening them without someone going to LE? All 6 of them? The possible scenarios are numerous, but it sure looks like these guys owed their LIVES to someone or some organization and Bud Billings was an obstacle to get out of the way. The safe most certainly held the stolen vehicles titles. But it was mentioned early on there might be a video or possibly surveillance tape? Just a rumor, but what if Billings had stumbled onto something bigger than just stolen cars? Wiggins bought a "pleasure craft". Those boats have been used for a number of things besides boat parties. While I agree that Tice is pivotal, I disagree that he's the ultimate perpetrator. In fact, I think his "debt" to the "Mexican Mafia" (or other criminal organization) was forgiven when the Billingses were murdered. It might also be helpful to think back to the divorce case LPG, Jr spoke about, with the "client" that paid him to travel abroad and get "dirt" on a "subject". Who might that have been?

 

[RiverPirate]

I'm not buying the CIA. The CIA wouldn’t' do a headline murder.

Of those choices, I'll go with the following scenario:

During a federal law enforcement investigation into organized crime, perhaps they caught Billings red handed and he flipped to be an undercover snitch. Someone caught wind of it and had these low lifes play scapegoat. But the organized crime wouldn't be mafia. The mafia would send your friend to have dinner with you first. It would have to be a different organized crime group.

I could go along with that but there is one thing that just keeps jumping in my head every time I open up to the possibility of this being a hit of any kind. You would have to be absolutely brain dead to think you were going to get away with murder carrying at least 7 accomplices with you in your back pocket.

IMO, If this were a hit, JR. could have parked his car down the road, put on his ninja outfit, went in there and killed Bud Billings and we would all still be sitting here wondering what the hell was going on.

Let’s suppose Tice gave Jr. the order for this hit in order to appease the Mexican Mafia or whoever it may be that wants this done. If this is the case, why is Tice still alive? They’re cutting peoples heads off and throwing em on the side of the road down in Mexico for about a dime a dozen. I’m guessing they could have that done in Columbia just as easy. Now, Tice is back in Pensacola and the first thing that comes out of his mouth is that he’s in debt to the Mexican Mafia. We’re right back to square one as far as the organized crime unit is concerned. Why would they go to the trouble of eliminating a threat to their businesses and allow another one to walk right out of their backyard into the Sheriffs office?

IMO, Tice was probably involved with JR. in the plan to rob the Billingses. They knew there were cash and valuable documents in those safes. Something went wrong when Jr. confronted the Billingses. Maybe Jr. got rough with them and Bud resisted. Maybe Bud got Jrs’ninja mask off in a scuffle and Jr. freaked out because they knew him and he opened fire. Again, I just can’t buy the idea that Jr., as psychotic as he is, would be stupid enough to bring all these people into a planned murder and think he’s going to get away with it.

 

[who knew?]

I could go along with that but there is one thing that just keeps jumping in my head every time I open up to the possibility of this being a hit of any kind. You would have to be absolutely brain dead to think you were going to get away with murder carrying at least 7 accomplices with you in your back pocket.

IMO, If this were a hit, JR. could have parked his car down the road, put on his ninja outfit, went in there and killed Bud Billings and we would all still be sitting here wondering what the hell was going on.

Let’s suppose Tice gave Jr. the order for this hit in order to appease the Mexican Mafia or whoever it may be that wants this done. If this is the case, why is Tice still alive? They’re cutting peoples heads off and throwing em on the side of the road down in Mexico for about a dime a dozen. I’m guessing they could have that done in Columbia just as easy. Now, Tice is back in Pensacola and the first thing that comes out of his mouth is that he’s in debt to the Mexican Mafia. We’re right back to square one as far as the organized crime unit is concerned. Why would they go to the trouble of eliminating a threat to their businesses and allow another one to walk right out of their backyard into the Sheriffs office?

IMO, Tice was probably involved with JR. in the plan to rob the Billingses. They knew there were cash and valuable documents in those safes. Something went wrong when Jr. confronted the Billingses. Maybe Jr. got rough with them and Bud resisted. Maybe Bud got Jrs’ninja mask off in a scuffle and Jr. freaked out because they knew him and he opened fire. Again, I just can’t buy the idea that Jr., as psychotic as he is, would be stupid enough to bring all these people into a planned murder and think he’s going to get away with it.

Let's just think about this for a minute....
why would Tice murder the Billings? He would be one of the first people that would be looked at. He is the perfect person to set up to take the fall. Tice is not an angel - dirty as can be - but also stupid (MO) with his money. Personally, I think he has a lot of money out of the country - he is a very poor money manager -
having said that, I will say I almost feel sorry for him - as dirty as he is, I don't think he ordered the hit on Billings. But, since the hit happened, people focus on who had motives - and he did........so he's under suspicion.

This goes much higher than Tice.

As for 7 people being involved in the murder --- 1 person did the murder -LPG, Jr. The others were brought along on LPG's instigation - for what they thought was a robbery. Maybe they had their own personal motives - who knows? But take a look at what was taken - basically personal papers. If they wanted the 100,000 in the safe, they had 7 people who would have been able to control 9 disabled kids - especially after the parents were dead - so they would have been able to take the time to get the money. After all - they assumed the insider at the Billings house had disabled the alarm.

JMHO

 

[RiverPirate]

Let's just think about this for a minute....
why would Tice murder the Billings? He would be one of the first people that would be looked at. He is the perfect person to set up to take the fall. Tice is not an angel - dirty as can be - but also stupid (MO) with his money. Personally, I think he has a lot of money out of the country - he is a very poor money manager -
having said that, I will say I almost feel sorry for him - as dirty as he is, I don't think he ordered the hit on Billings. But, since the hit happened, people focus on who had motives - and he did........so he's under suspicion.

This goes much higher than Tice.

As for 7 people being involved in the murder --- 1 person did the murder -LPG, Jr. The others were brought along on LPG's instigation - for what they thought was a robbery. Maybe they had their own personal motives - who knows? But take a look at what was taken - basically personal papers. If they wanted the 100,000 in the safe, they had 7 people who would have been able to control 9 disabled kids - especially after the parents were dead - so they would have been able to take the time to get the money. After all - they assumed the insider at the Billings house had disabled the alarm.

JMHO

OK...I'm following ya. However, I still come back to this. If Jr. is getting paid $20,000-$50,000 for the hit, why does he bring this crew that anybody with walking around sense knows will roll the minute they are faced with murder charges? Which BTW, is exactly what they did and are doing. His own Father stuck it in him as soon as the Sheriffs showed up. Now,the rest of em are gonna say it's all JR also.

If they wanted the 100,000 in the safe, they had 7 people who would have been able to control 9 disabled kids - especially after the parents were dead - so they would have been able to take the time to get the money. After all - they assumed the insider at the Billings house had disabled the alarm.

Which brings me to this. Sure they could have controlled the kids, and got the other safe. Which is absolutely what I think they planned on doing. However, when they heard the gun go BOOM,BOOM,BOOM....They probably crapped their pants running out the door.

 

[who knew?]

OK...I'm following ya. However, I still come back to this. If Jr. is getting paid $20,000-$50,000 for the hit, why does he bring this crew that anybody with walking around sense knows will roll the minute they are faced with murder charges? Which BTW, is exactly what they did and are doing. His own Father stuck it in him as soon as the Sheriffs showed up. Now,the rest of em are gonna say it's all JR also.



Which brings me to this. Sure they could have controlled the kids, and got the other safe. Which is absolutely what I think they planned on doing. However, when they heard the gun go BOOM,BOOM,BOOM....They probably crapped their pants running out the door.

I see your point River. As to the first, I think Jr was wanting more out of it for himself - as in GLORY. I think he's a nutcase. I don't know this to be a fact, but I have to wonder if Sr knew Jr was going to kill these people. He was after all, sitting in the van, waiting. Don't know that the relationship between them was all that strong - just considering their past - the patrick poff thing - but that is speculation on my part. (I hope I'm not crazy enough to understand Jr! )

As to the second - once the boomboom happened, I'm thinking the perps who were there to rob the Billings had the life scared out of them - I think they were there for the robbery, thinking cash - Jr was there to do a job, thinking papers having to do with business dealings, etc., and any cash he could get after killing BB and MB. I think we're saying the same thing here - they were there to do the robbery - Jr was there to kill BB - once the boomboom happened, the perps got the hell out of Dodge. Is that what you are saying also?

 

[RiverPirate]

I see your point River. As to the first, I think Jr was wanting more out of it for himself - as in GLORY. I think he's a nutcase. I don't know this to be a fact, but I have to wonder if Sr knew Jr was going to kill these people. He was after all, sitting in the van, waiting. Don't know that the relationship between them was all that strong - just considering their past - the patrick poff thing - but that is speculation on my part. (I hope I'm not crazy enough to understand Jr! )

The first time I read his myspace, I figured he was nuts.

As to the second - once the boomboom happened, I'm thinking the perps who were there to rob the Billings had the life scared out of them - I think they were there for the robbery, thinking cash - Jr was there to do a job, thinking papers having to do with business dealings, etc., and any cash he could get after killing BB and MB. I think we're saying the same thing here - they were there to do the robbery - Jr was there to kill BB - once the boomboom happened, the perps got the hell out of Dodge. Is that what you are saying also?

Yes, I think it is possible it happened like that. However, I see another possibility. I think it's possible Jr. didn't go there to kill anybody. He had the crew to control the house and get the safes and anything else they wanted.
Something went wrong. Bud resisted? Struggle? Bud gets Jrs' mask off?
Could of been anything that turned robbery into murder.

That said, I'm certainly open to the whole contract, set-up theory also. I just think it's quite possible this wasn't part of it.

Jr. could have taken his 20-50 grand all by himself easier. He didn't need any help. What's gonna happen? The disabled children gonna gang up and whip him after the hit?

By the time you divide what they were after up amongst all that bunch, he would have made more money with just the 20 grand and his chances for success were much higher. IMO

 

[UnderDog]

It was reported that some of the children actually slept through the murder (just an FYI). On the one hand, Tice is "broke", but he's reportedly engaged to or married to a woman in Colombia. He may be depositing any profits outside of the US. Caldiron at one point wanted "out", according to his story. But Gonzales allegedly told him he was "in too deep". Caldiron determined he couldn't go to the authorities. WHY? If it was just Gonzales, Wiggins and Tice, why wouldn't he go to the authorities and act as informant? Ask for protection? Or did Caldiron know it went way beyond just the local heirarchy?

 

[Pcola Hog]

It was reported that some of the children actually slept through the murder (just an FYI). On the one hand, Tice is "broke", but he's reportedly engaged to or married to a woman in Colombia. He may be depositing any profits outside of the US. Caldiron at one point wanted "out", according to his story. But Gonzales allegedly told him he was "in too deep". Caldiron determined he couldn't go to the authorities. WHY? If it was just Gonzales, Wiggins and Tice, why wouldn't he go to the authorities and act as informant? Ask for protection? Or did Caldiron know it went way beyond just the local heirarchy?

I would think Caldiron telling LE he wanted out an hour before the hit/robbery took place is nothing more than a lame attempt at saving his butt.

 

[Gene]

I would think Caldiron telling LE he wanted out an hour before the hit/robbery took place is nothing more than a lame attempt at saving his butt.

.

I think that when developing theories, it is always best to look at past behavior. Coldiron (NOT Caldiron) is violent. Coldiron is a criminal. But when Coldiron gets caught, he fesses up. Read this article which describes two of his past crimes that we know about. I edited down to the bones so there are no copyright issues, but read about his two violent attacks:

http://www.pnj.com/article/20090729/NEWS01/907290356

Attack 1. Officers found Coldiron nearby. He made no effort to hide what he did, throwing up his hands and saying, "I did it," the report said.

Attack 2. In 1992, an argument between Coldiron and an acquaintance....Coldiron called 911,

Both times, after doing something stupid, he did not lie about it. He did not run. He turned himself in, told the truth and took his punishment. Why don't you think he is doing the same thing now?

From the pack of thugs currently in jail, he is the one I would tend to believe most.

 

[UnderDog]

Thanks Gene, I got hung up on that incorrect spelling. COLDIRON.

 

[Pcola Hog]

.

I think that when developing theories, it is always best to look at past behavior. Coldiron (NOT Caldiron) is violent. Coldiron is a criminal. But when Coldiron gets caught, he fesses up. Read this article which describes two of his past crimes that we know about. I edited down to the bones so there are no copyright issues, but read about his two violent attacks:

http://www.pnj.com/article/20090729/NEWS01/907290356

Attack 1. Officers found Coldiron nearby. He made no effort to hide what he did, throwing up his hands and saying, "I did it," the report said.

Attack 2. In 1992, an argument between Coldiron and an acquaintance....Coldiron called 911,

Both times, after doing something stupid, he did not lie about it. He did not run. He turned himself in, told the truth and took his punishment. Why don't you think he is doing the same thing now?

From the pack of thugs currently in jail, he is the one I would tend to believe most.

Gene, I wasn't trying to discredit your theories why Coldiron ( ) told LE he tried backing out. I was just throwing out another possibility.

Sorry, I didn't notice that I'd mis-spelled Coldiron...please don't read anything into it...no clue, no anything, other than a mistake.

 

[mikeysmommom]

No top level perp is still not even mentioned as of yet!

 

[Dannybye]

No top level perp has been arrested yet for sure!

More questions than answers

It is pretty apparent that the dogs were not in the house, right after the murders. The childcare helper in the trailer said where are the dogs?
So ...1. Who had the dogs and why?
2. Did Justin have the dogs the night before?
3. Lonnie and another staff sgt lady testifies that a safe had tons of money in it? So how much money/drugs was stolen? I'm betting it was hundreds of thousands that no one will admit too? Does anyone believe anymore that there was nothing in the safe as were told in the news reports?
4. Lonnie knows an awful lot ... he is scared s....less Who is this Mr. Manthis Could it be Mathis by the way? And it's obvious, very obvious that LPGjr did not do anything unless he got the job from this Manthis/Mathis
5. Has anyone found the last 20 pages of his deposition beyond the 97 pages I already read?
6. We know for sure who committed the murders and robbery ...what we don't know is why? THE REAL WHY? WHO WANTED BB GONE?