How can people keep quiet for years?

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LillieBelle said:
In regards to Haleigh, I believe it was Ron's uncle who said something like, "I don't snitch on family"...
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Sorry to quote myself and the OT, but as I was reading the other comments, I started thinking about him saying he doesn't snitch on family...well, he certainly wasn't talking about the Croslin clan, and so who could he possibly be referring to, and what knowledge does he have that he is not "snitching" about???
 
kamky said:
Within a family, members may have a long history of lying for one another and it's become ingrained in them to do so. They may have a code of loyalty to support each other, regardless of the reason. They may be so embarassed by what another family member did that they can't admit it even within the family. They may feel that they "caused" what another family member did so they are partly responsible. They may be afraid of hurting other family members. They may be afraid of another family member. The other family member may have something on them that they don't want known. They may feel that the stigma will destroy all members of the family forever. They may be in denial.
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This is absolutely true...Folks become ...thru the years..(.I will describe it as "clannish")...meaning...ALL of what you just posted here...

They support one another, and also cover each other's back..They also punish one another if not going along. This practice/behavior has been around for centuries...

Even if a crime is committed, and those around the guilty one.. know it...they will do everything they can..to "protect" and mislead authority..change stories, throw out lies, mistruths, and confuse..

This "cover and protect" the guilty...helps EVERYONE in the "clan" and becomes a "NOW...YOU OWE ME, Since I protected you" ..sort of thing.........

IMO....IF...Haleigh died...of a "suspicious nature" that would involve an investigation and possible charges to Ron.....I believe that ....the Cummings family would quietly "dispose of her" and plan a cover up that NO ONE would be charged...Just a 911 call that she had been "taken"...and the rest would take care of itself...and the case gradually grow cold and hopefully forgotten about...There would be no one charged...There is NO BODY..and NO CONFESSION...NO EVIDENCE OF ANY CRIME......therefore ...NO ARREST..

On the other hand...IF...Haleigh died ..of a natural cause....Perhaps they/Ron panicked, did NOT want the coroner called, did NOT want any questions to answer...Perhaps Ron was afraid DCS would come out and find out the way he was living, with a teen-age live in lover/baby sitter, and take Junior away....and he freaked...

It could be just that simple...She died and they quietly buried her...And have gone on with their lives..NOT ONE OF THEM ARE LOOKING FOR HER..THEY SPEAK OF HER IN THE PAST TENSE..

IMO...my latest thoughts are....The LE have figured it out..or been informed by someone reliable and truthful..that Haleigh died ..no foul play involved..they panicked, quietly buried her..(no site revealed) and made this claim that she had been "stolen"...That was the only plan they could come up with at a moment's notice..They were all given stories to tell..to confuse. to mislead, lies, and more lies

IMO...to me, that is the ONLY reason I can come up with...after 19 months..of LE involvement....that there has been no arrests made....in this case

IF the LE believes that she died of natural causes..and no foul play involved..what could the charges be???...if any???...Obstruction of Justice? Making a false report? and where is the burial site?? If any??

As for Ron..his plea deal...I would be very very surprised..he would be of any help in this investigation...with ANY NEW information regarding his daughter and what happened to her....UNLESS..he was given IMMUNITY.....and I believe he's not going to do that, because his "spilling the truth" would implicate "others" without any immunity..Know WHAT I mean??? Know WHO I mean???. I'm telling you...These folks stick together..IT HAS WORKED SO FAR!!!!..No body, No crime scene, no evidence, no confession,

Forgive me for rambling but these are my thoughts tonight...
 
SoSueMe said:
Sadly, some people keep quiet so they will have a bargaining chip when they need it. Looking at the criminal element in this case, I can see that being a reason to keep quiet. Also, it might be out of misguided family/gang/friendship/peer loyalty.

On the flipside, what makes those who have kept quiet for years finally tell the truth? I'd say alienation of wives, girlfriends, religion, revenge, deathbed confessions and of course, plea bargains for their own crimes.
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& considering these minimum mandatory rules, I don't blame people for holding on to information. Face it...it's not your every day wife/mother who witnesses most crimes. It's the criminal's friends/associates...more than likely, criminals themselves.
 
LiveLaughLuv said:
Saw that episode as well. How convenient when someone doesn't have an explaination, she was psychic, she led them to the body yet they arrested her for murder....it took three days for the detective who knew this woman and her ability to set her free...No apologies but a wrongful arrest or malcious arrest lawsuit got her the apology LE didn't verbally give her. She was awarded $27,000 for being wrongully detained...JMHO

I too got the no good deed goes unpunished treatment when my husband and I witnessed a hit and run car accident. We followed the vehicle that fled, I wrote down the license plate number, made an illegal turn to get the attention of this police officer sitting in his car, got pulled over while the driver in the hit and run vehicle got away. I implored the police officer to go after the car, I described the car, gave the plate number, the dent that was made when he rear ended the other vehicle, yet I was given a slew of tickets and told by the officer, "we don't chase cars"! Then he had the nerve to give my name to the insurance company as an eyewitness to the accident...needless to say, this officer put a bad taste in my mouth and I now fear coming foward to aid another human but probably would step up anyway...I was just furious at that time...JMHO

Justice must be served!
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my bro in law had an almost identical experience, except the hit & runner caused a lot of damage. The cop asked him why he was tattling & trying to get somebody in trouble, & also told him that it had nothing to do with him. So, in other words...mind ya business. My daughter's current bf suffered from a hit & run, right in front of our house, & the last thing I wanted to do was call the cops, but for insurance purposes, he did. We all saw who did it, (my daughter's ex), so he was understandably mad, but the cop actually pulled out his cuffs & was gonna arrest him. for what? a bad attitude? I really never figured that out, because I was standing right there, & he just wanted the cops to go get the guy. & then right in front of the bf, the cop told my daughter that he was no better than her ex, who beat the crud out of her, & she needed to get the trash out of her life. This guy didn't deserve to be talked to like that. But he has agreed, that it's best to leave the cop calling for emergency situations only. like murder.
 
When I was a teen, my sis's friend invited me to hang out with her & her older sis. Well, she got pulled over by a highway patrolman, & when he turned his lights on, this girl, grabbed her stash of weed & stuffed it in my purse. In shock, & realizing the cop would never believe that it wasn't mine, I shoved it under my seat.(innadvertantly, pushing it up on a rack). Well, I guess he picked up my fear, because he took that car apart, looking for drugs, & here's the weird part. I became a total sarcastic (w)itch to that cop. Everything he said, I had a smartazz come back. Now this other girl knew how to play him, & he liked her, yes sir, no sir...but me? not so much. He threatened to take us all in, because of my bad attitude, & actually told me I needed to be like my 'friend'. Well, I finally calmed down, assessed the situation, & started crying & appologized, & told him I was just scared. He let us go. When we left, that girl got my purse, looking for her weed. No way. I opened that bag & let it blow with the wind. She was so mad, that she grabbed my hair...& the fight was on. I had never fought before, & haven't fought since, but I stood on that TG&Y parking lot, & beat the carp out of that (w)itch. My point? some people know how to work cops, & they fall for it, & things aren't always as they seem, & their really isn't much honor to a druggie. & sometimes, a person doesn't snitch, because she knows she won't be believed.
 
dodie20 said:
When I was a teen, my sis's friend invited me to hang out with her & her older sis. Well, she got pulled over by a highway patrolman, & when he turned his lights on, this girl, grabbed her stash of weed & stuffed it in my purse. In shock, & realizing the cop would never believe that it wasn't mine, I shoved it under my seat.(innadvertantly, pushing it up on a rack). Well, I guess he picked up my fear, because he took that car apart, looking for drugs, & here's the weird part. I became a total sarcastic (w)itch to that cop. Everything he said, I had a smartazz come back. Now this other girl knew how to play him, & he liked her, yes sir, no sir...but me? not so much. He threatened to take us all in, because of my bad attitude, & actually told me I needed to be like my 'friend'. Well, I finally calmed down, assessed the situation, & started crying & appologized, & told him I was just scared. He let us go. When we left, that girl got my purse, looking for her weed. No way. I opened that bag & let it blow with the wind. She was so mad, that she grabbed my hair...& the fight was on. I had never fought before, & haven't fought since, but I stood on that TG&Y parking lot, & beat the carp out of that (w)itch. My point? some people know how to work cops, & they fall for it, & things aren't always as they seem, & their really isn't much honor to a druggie. & sometimes, a person doesn't snitch, because she knows she won't be believed.
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I wanted to add something to this story, that I remembered. 1st of all, I was a pretty decent kid-good grades, all state band, never gave my teachers trouble, etc...but, when I was in this situation, it changed me. While talking to that cop, I remembered that I didn't have any ID in my purse, so if he found it, I planned to tell him that it wasn't mine. I wasn't a liar, but feeling trapped like I did, I planned to lie. & considering the jam that girl put me in, I didn't feel bad about it. So, after thinking about it, I can see why a person with not much to hide, might lie. especially if she didn't think she'd be believed. It just spirals out of control. If that cop had found my purse, & I denied that it was mine, but then he found out that it was? NOTHING I said, would've been believed. & I might not have stopped at that lie, just kept on & on. & all because I knew the truth wouldn't be believed. I'm lucky I don't have a drug record!!! & thinking about Misty...this may be how all of her lies started.
 
The fact that the family engages in criminal activity, the fear of being a "snitch", and the players themselves being in a fog of pain killers(before, during and after the crime); we'll be lucky if anyone ever finds out what happened to that sweet little girl.
 
I think many times it comes to down to your parents and how you were raised. If you were raised to help others or raised to only worry about yourself and your family.

I was getting to know this guy and asked a question that I thought had an obvious answer. "If you saw a man beating a woman would you step in to help the woman?" The guy said "No because he could have a gun or something and kill me and leave my kids without a Dad." I thought okay that kind of sounds reasonable although I was still having a problem with it.

So I changed the scenario. I asked "What if you were walking down the street, a house on fire, two children in a window screaming for help, what would you do?" He sad "call 911 and wait for the fire trucks to arrive." I was shocked. I asked him how he could live with himself if he did not try to save two kids. He again said "I have to think of my kids. I cannot risk my life and leave my kids without a father to save two strange kids."

All I could think of was my Dad could not live with himself if he had a chance to save the life of two kids and didn't because he was worried he might die and leave us without a father. I was raised that kids lives are more important than adults. I also knew I would have a hard time looking at my Father if I knew he did not at least try to rescue burning kids.

I thought the answers were obvious. I thought the guy was a fluke. So I started asking others inlcuding husbands of family members those questions. I found the guy beating the girl scenario the ones who would not even call 911 or would do it anonymously were ones who grew up in gang areas. They were afraid of retalliation. All the others would call 911 with most even trying to break it up because no guy should hit a woman.

With the children in the fire scenario, the same guys who did not want to get involved because of retaliation, asked the same question "if something happened to me, who would take care of my children." I realized then that I was never going to find a scenario where they would get involved. Just a "new" excuse for why they couldn't. Because their family and their lives were worth so much more to them than anyone else's and they had no problem with that. They were raised that way. They said their Dad would make the same choice.

All the others were the same as me, it wasn't that their lives were not worth more. It was that they could not face themselves in the mirror if they did not get involved. They also would have a hard time facing their parents. "My Dad or my Mom would lose respect for me if I did not get involved." They were raised to help those who needed help. Even my loser brother and his loser sons who had no problem lying and stealing said they would help. Despite their lives going against everything else my parents taught my brother, that part to help others in an emergency was still ingrained.

So I think ultimately it comes down to how you were raised. If you were raised to help and you don't, your conscience will kill you.


BTW, anyone with daughters, after that I asked teenage girls I knew what their answers would be. Then I told them to ask the guys they were dating. They were all sure that their guys would answer the same as they did. Some were wrong. I was proud that the girls who were wrong, all broke up with those guys. One girl dumped a guy she had been dating for over two years, "loved" and planned to marry because she could never marry a guy who would put his life above a childs and let the child die. So those type questions are a great way for girls to weed out guys for dating.
 
blazeofglory said:
tc and mc have stated in there video tapes that when rc is mentioned they dont want to hear it just want to hear what the croslins have to say..i say let them talk.http://youtu.be/s16ZI-XQKCs
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IMO...the LE may HAVE listened to what Misty and Tommy had to say.about Ron/TN.and perhaps some of their stories..were...actually ..confirmed..to be the truth..along with all their lies...to the LE...

IMO...In order to keep the confidentiality that Misty and Tommy HAVE cooperated with the LE, and to stay on the "down low"...... Tommy and Misty are both putting these comments out there...(that the LE won't listen)..so Ron/TN...WILL NOT...know where the LE got their information...

IMO...Misty and Tommy are NOT going on record saying that THEY BOTH gave the LE lots of incriminating information about Ron/TN..

IMO...And because Tommy and Misty are both found/accused/judged to be lying all the time...It would be believeable for Ron/TN to hear that the LE won't listen to them regarding Ron...

IMO..Misty and Tommy say a LOT OF STUFF....We don't know what they have said....about ...everything...only what is being put out there..

IMO..There is so much more..."behind the scenes"..

The LE are really being tight with this case...

all in my own opinion
 
Emeralgem said:
I'm not quite understanding what it is you are saying...Let who talk?
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em let tc and mc tell what they no not what they think le wants to no...i think nay said that letter was all made up and told a detective she was forced to do it by le dont no if its true or not but thats what was said..tc and mc said they didnt want to hear anything about rc and that they maybe should listen..remember tc said to begain wth he would not lie for misty this time no way was he going to say jo did it ,,no way...shes lying for her old man...then he turns around and blames jo..i think they where all locked up because of skb theory and i believe they all ran wth his theory...which i dont think he solved at all and its just his theory..i dont trust that le...http://youtu.be/s16ZI-XQKCs
 
I can't see how any of the main players are holding back out of fear since most of 'em are locked up and will be for a lot of years, hopefully.
But fear for one's own safety or that of one's family is one of the biggest reasons not to tell the truth when it is a crime of this proportion. And it's gone on so long now, they may just feel real comfy and think they're safe.... if the truth hasn't come out by now, it never will. Ya know?
 
Kimster said:
This came up in my Interceder on the Kyron Horman case, but I felt it more revelent for discussion in Haleigh's case.

People who know what happened in a murder keep quiet for YEARS! Check this out:

As it turned out, Tim had been murdered by his employer, former Starry Night nightclub owner Larry Hurwitz. Although several other people knew what happened, they kept quiet for years. But when Hurwitz was convicted of income tax evasion in 1998, the press coverage – which included mention of Moreau’s disappearance – prompted people with inside knowledge to contact the police, eventually leading to Hurwitz’s arrest and conviction for murdering Tim.

&#8220;There were people who told us they came forward with inside information because of the press coverage,&#8221; Mike Moreau says.<snipped>

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=128337191106651000

Let's use this thread to discuss old cases where witnesses kept quiet for years and what changes in the case caused them to speak out.

What will cause someone in this case to SPEAK UP and tell what they know???
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In 2000, Hurwitz pleaded no contest to the 1990 murder of his employee Tim Moreau. He spent eight years in prison. Now, at 64, he’s in trouble with the law again.

No one has covered all things Hurwitz more relentlessly than reporter Jim Redden. He kept the Moreau case in front of the public during the long years between Moreau’s disappearance and Hurwitz’s arrest, even helping advance the case. And he broke the news of Hurwitz’s latest legal troubles this summer. The Portland Tribune has compiled much of Redden’s 30 years of reporting on Hurwitz into a book-length online package.

The Oregonian/OregonLive talked to Redden about Larry Hurwitz’s twisting, pitted road to justice. The email interview has been lightly edited for clarity and length.
Larry Hurwitz, the ‘Starry Night Murder,’ and a life of crime: Reporter Jim Redden on his years tracking a killer
 
dodie20 said:
I think a lot of times, it's because of their own involvement. Even if it was minimal, they're leery of having their names dragged into it...also, because they have their own crimes to hide... & it's not cool to snitch... Maybe some people are scared if they hand over information, they will be accused of being involved? because how could they know certain things, without involvement? & it would be hard to prove otherwise, so they figure it's best, to just stay out of it...sometimes people don't talk out of love or loyalty, but years later, their feelings toward the perp change...sometimes, it takes the perp being locked up & safely away, to remove fear of retaliation...I remember a case back in the 80s, where a teen boy killed a classmate, & all of his friends kept quiet. I never really figured out why, except snitching wouldn't bring back the dead girl, so they all just rallied round their friend. weird. I kind of think that's what happened with the Ramseys. Their family & friends, could've shed some light on that family, but for the most part, they all just rallied round John & Patsy. Who knows...maybe their son will speak up one day.
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I remember the case from the '80s you are talking about, the murder of Marcy Conrad. They made a movie inspired by it, River's Edge, with Keanu Reeves, Ione Skye, Crispin Glover, and Dennis Hopper.
 
Do you think anyone will start talking or any new information will come out when they start getting out of prison next year? Except for Misty - she still has 10 years.
Lindsy has remarried and had another daughter. Timmy and Chelsea divorced several year ago. I can't believe it has been this long - and HaLeigh would now be as old as Misty was when this all happened? I will never stop looking for answers in this case.
 
I don't think they'll talk. Some of them are accessories after the fact. I've never been convinced that Tommy really knew anything, if he had, I think he would have parlayed that knowledge into a shorter prison term. He had so many stories! Timmy and Chelsea? They know, but will probably never talk.
 
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