How to get yourself & a child out of the school and into a vehicle?

[Morag]

There are five buses serving Skyline School. These are the latest pick up times for each bus:
145 8:26
147 8:33 http://www.pps.k12.or.us/depts-c/bus/index.php
148 8:19
146 8:26
481 8:30

The 8:19 pickup time is at 17528 NW St Helens Rd, which is about 7 minutes from Skyline School. So the (approximate) earliest time that bus- or any bus- would arrive is at about 8:26. Arriving buses would not be an issue before that time. The window of opportunity to leave the school without observation is about 10 minutes between 8:15 and 8:25. May I refer you to my post #189 in this thread? I worked on it for a long time and answered (I think) some of the questions that are still swirling around!

Well, I guess you can't park in the back anymore. So part of my theory goes out the (cafegymatorium) window!

 

[carbuff]

I'm now ruling out (for myself) the south and east as options to have the child exit. There's too much going on, too many people, too much risk. I'm not going to choose them. East was a contender until you brought up the buses lol. East is blocked. I can't get my vehicle there, and I can't have the child walk to my vehicle. It's too risky.

So I've got west and north. North presents too much risk of the child being seen as he walks down those steps, plus too much risk of my vehicle being seen both as I drive back to an unusual place, and as I drive out from an unusual place.

West presents significant risk both of the child being seen as he walks up the dirt road. I think it's a tolerable risk though - the most tolerable for me - because of the distraction and concentration of activity on other side of the building. The trees that would partially obscure part of the child's walk up the dirt road is also a plus.

West gives one other problem, the risk of my vehicle being seen pausing at the end of the dirt road. I can mitigate that risk by not leaving the parking lot until the child is near the end of the dirt road, and only then exiting the parking lot, driving to the dirt road, pausing for a sec while the child jumps in, and driving away.

If I'm luring out a live, conscious child, then West is my #1 choice as least risky, and the risk is tolerable.

If I were leaving prior to the buses arriving, and I have no idea when the buses started arriving, then I would choose East as least risky, and a more tolerable risk than West.

If the child were deceased or unconscious, then East is really the only option I can see, either before the buses arrive or after the buses left. If after the buses left, it would also have to be after 10am when all the children, teachers, and volunteers are back in their classrooms. Before the buses arrive is still too risky because there are parents and children too nearby, and the risk of being seen is too high.

I think Kyron left the school unconscious or deceased, or that he's still in there.

The complexity and risk of taking a child out of the school alive is just too great, and too senseless to me to even attempt, whether the adult is known to Kyron or not.

Whether the motive was molestation or murder or both, and particularly if this was a planned crime of murder, it just makes no sense to even attempt to take the child out of the school alive. There's no reason to, so why take such a ridiculous risk?

It's not real clear in Google street view (it looks like they collected a bug on their camera lens) but it appears to me that the road from the soccer field is gated and the whole side of the school property is fenced in -- not surprising, you don't want kids running out in the road. I don't see a gap.

 

[debs]

As gruesome as this is, I hope that LE checked the tank in that porto potty on the school grounds.

 

[Calliope]

<Snip>

West presents significant risk both of the child being seen as he walks up the dirt road. I think it's a tolerable risk though - the most tolerable for me - because of the distraction and concentration of activity on other side of the building. The trees that would partially obscure part of the child's walk up the dirt road is also a plus.

West gives one other problem, the risk of my vehicle being seen pausing at the end of the dirt road. I can mitigate that risk by not leaving the parking lot until the child is near the end of the dirt road, and only then exiting the parking lot, driving to the dirt road, pausing for a sec while the child jumps in, and driving away.

If I'm luring out a live, conscious child, then West is my #1 choice as least risky, and the risk is tolerable.

<snip>

I wonder if there were any cars parked on that dirt road. With limited space in the lot, maybe staff was instructed to park over there so that parents and visitors could get into the paved lot. The dirt road goes right up to that door on the west side, so no need for him to have been led too far.

I think he left (lured) or was taken out that west entrance leading to the field. The road conveniently leading up to the door plays into my theory. Now I just gotta flesh it out

 

[Calliope]

As far as the bus drop off area goes, it was at the side of the school, but because of an accident, (a bus pinned a woman to a parked car), in January of 2009 they began to plan for the buses to drop students off at the back of the school.
http://skylineelementary.org/files/1_12_09issue.pdf

Yikes. That would be quite the slalom for those drivers.

 

[STEADFAST]

Yikes. That would be quite the slalom for those drivers.

I think they were trying to keep the cars in the parking lot and the buses separated behind the building. I've never seen a school with a worse drop off set up -- the U-turns, the backing up, the tiny parking lot, etc. They need a separate entrance and exit like most schools have.
By the way, I don't think they have many buses -- maybe only two, because that structure behind the school is called the "bus barn."

 

[Morag]

...By the way, I don't think they have many buses -- maybe only two, because that structure behind the school is called the "bus barn."

There are 5 bus routes, 5 buses. Maybe only some- or none- of them are parked there overnight. Here's the bus schedule:
http://www.pps.k12.or.us/depts-c/bus/index.php

 

[STEADFAST]

Some pictures of the school from the Today Show segment. Thought they might help with theories. They show all the trees and shrubs surrounding the school better than the Bing bird's-eye view does, I think. They also show better the steep slope up to the school.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/37821161#37821161

 

[Donjeta]

If they took his glasses off it could backfire because everybody who frequents those hallways is used to seeing Kyron with his glasses on and if they saw him not wearing them people might stop and think, hey I know that kid but there was something weird about him. Like when you see your friend and she's changed her hairdo and you think she looks different but can't put your finger on the reason until she tells you she's been to the hairdresser.

It would be a good idea to take his glasses off on the highway or in the mall shopping for his new clothes so the strangers don't remember him if they think about all the spectacled little boys they've seen but in his familiar school people who otherwise wouldn't remember seeing just another kid in the hallway might recall thinking, why isn't Kyron wearing his glasses. He'd attract more attention from the people who know him if he looks unusual.

 

[carbuff]

I wonder if there were any cars parked on that dirt road. With limited space in the lot, maybe staff was instructed to park over there so that parents and visitors could get into the paved lot. The dirt road goes right up to that door on the west side, so no need for him to have been led too far.

I think he left (lured) or was taken out that west entrance leading to the field. The road conveniently leading up to the door plays into my theory. Now I just gotta flesh it out

If you look in Google street view -- the road to the west entrance appears to be gated.

 

[Calliope]

If you look in Google street view -- the road to the west entrance appears to be gated.

But I wonder about this day in particular, and how secure the gate if it is there.

I also wonder about who has reason (and permission) to drive there.

 

[ElizaAvalon]

I have looked at a lot of pictures of the school, from the road, from video and from media.

It looks to me like you cannot see the side door that is at the bottom of the stairs from Kyron's classroom from the road. I also do not believe you would be able to see a vehicle, if parked outside of that door, from the street.

However, I do think a car (or white truck) would be noticed leaving the dirt road because it would probably be out of the ordinary.

I can see, however, wanting to get as close to the venue as possible if one has a large project to bring into the classroom and may drive up there just for this reason.

And then sneaking out at 8:15 with Kyron before anyone else comes to the school.

BTW, Kyron is farsighted. The eyes of people who are farsighted look larger with glasses on and the eyes of people who are nearsighted look smaller with glasses on. Kyron probably would not have trouble walking out of the school without his glasses on. He has more trouble seeing things close up.

 

[akashana]

But what 7 year old wouldn't tell his friends, with great excitement, that his mom was going to take him to get a REAL LIVE tree frog at 9am?

I thought about that too, and agree he couldn't keep it to himself for long. But he wouldn't necessarily have to. She could suggest it and then they leave minutes or moments later. He would be thrilled at the prospect and willingly leave the grounds on such an errand.

 

[oxymoran]

Do we know if there really was an electricity exhibit at the school...or could this be the excuse someone used to lure him out?

 

[Mylou]

Do we know if there really was an electricity exhibit at the school...or could this be the excuse someone used to lure him out?

I don't know that there is an answer for that question yet. Ive been waiting and asking about it too.

 

[speedracer1263]

IMO, a body builder/weight lifter may not have too much trouble carrying out Kyron in a duffel bag. I think killing him in the school and
removing the body in a bag is a good (albeit horrendous) theory.

My first post. I feel ill even thinking about the scenario. But yours is quite plausible. Kyron is only 50 LBS. Fear/adrenaline can help you do things you would normally struggle with.

 

[CaringCitizen]

I have a question about the family believing that Kyron was taken at about 9am. Since the kids were supposed to be in their classroom at 8:45 to gather into groups of five before touring other classes, someone should have seen Kyron in those fifteen minutes. A teacher, principal, volunteer, cafeteria worker, someone should have seen him not being where he was supposed to be. Why wait til right at 8:45 to get a child to his classroom in the first place, and What happened to the 8:15 teacher sighting of Kyron and his SM? There's a big difference between 8:15 and 9:00.

That's exactly why I don't think they left at 9am. And I think its why the police changed from early on saying that Terri said bye to him at 8:45 (150ft away from the room) and then Kryon was seen again at 9am. They dropped the and Kyron was seen again at 9am part because the classmate understandably got the time wrong the first go round.

The classmate told a reporter he saw Kyron at 9am, chatted about the electric project, but then Kyron didn't make it class. From the teacher's account, we know for sure he didn't make it to class and was counted absent.

From the day the classmate's statement came out, I believed the content of it, but I did not believe the time was correct. I not only wasn't surprised when things changed regarding timing of this interaction, I expected it. We can deduce it did because LE later and more recently said Terri was the last person known to have seen Kryon before he disappeared. That means LE knows the classmate did not see him after the time Terri gave of 8:45am.

Remember, roll call would have been taken at 8:45am in the class, at which point the teachers then gathered kids into groups of 5-6 to tour the fair (in various spots in the school) up until 10am. So while the classmate did see Kyron that morning before class officially started, and they did chat about the electric project, it was not 9am. It had to have been prior to roll call, because even the classmate said Kyron didn't make it into the class.

My guess is that at 8:35am when the first bell rang, and as buses were still arriving, it was around then that Kyron and classmate spoke. Very soon after that, as kids were getting to their rooms for roll call, Kyron was already on his way out - for whatever reason he was told. Also, keep in mind, that LE also knows (just as we web sleuths do) that Terri was a volunteer at that school which meant a) she knew its processes, procedures, bell and roll call timing, absent notifications processes, the lack of security cameras, etc and b) she did not volunteer on this day, of the Science Fair and Talent Show. It doesn't wrap up the case, but it accompanies other clues known to LE.

I think after learning more about the classmate's timing, it explains why LE have since revised statements and say that Terri Horman was the last known person to have seen Kyron before he disappeared.

She also may have been the last person (known or not) to have seen him ever. And I think that is what LE thinks too. Just my opinion - it's what I think they think.

Low alarm people, there is no one out there waiting to snatch your kid from Skyline. Trust us. We have more information than we can tell you. We don't want to make any mistakes. We have to be slow and cautious if you want us to have a case later that actually puts someone away for this crime. We understand many of you want to charge out of the gate and run full force to seize the perp and take away freedoms they should no longer enjoy. Be patient. Help us get more clues from the questionnaire, more clues from the street, more clues from piecing together a wide array of 'things', more tips. And please know that we are steadily collecting evidence and we are looking for Kyron as we build our case.

Just my opinion.

 

[GrainneDhu]

The complexity and risk of taking a child out of the school alive is just too great, and too senseless to me to even attempt, whether the adult is known to Kyron or not.

Whether the motive was molestation or murder or both, and particularly if this was a planned crime of murder, it just makes no sense to even attempt to take the child out of the school alive. There's no reason to, so why take such a ridiculous risk?

Would you describe yourself as a risk taker?

I'm thinking that whoever the perpetrator is, they must have at least a good dollop of risk taker in their character, so it is difficult to rule out an option based solely on the degree of risk it would impose.

 

[BeanE]

Would you describe yourself as a risk taker?

I'm thinking that whoever the perpetrator is, they must have at least a good dollop of risk taker in their character, so it is difficult to rule out an option based solely on the degree of risk it would impose.

If it is a predator, then it's my understanding that their compulsion makes them take extreme risks. That is true.

If it was sudden rage, then yes, the person, no matter who it was would likely have been willing to take more risk.

If it was planned, then the more planning, and the more complex the plan, I think the less risk they'd have been willing to tolerate. The purpose of planning in a murder, I think, is to minimize risk of getting caught.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Remember, roll call would have been taken at 8:45am in the class, at which point the teachers then gathered kids into groups of 5-6 to tour the fair (in various spots in the school) up until 10am.

Your theory overall seems possible to me.

However, I do have one question. Do we know for sure that roll was called at 8:45 am?

I ask because I once volunteered to be a chaperone for an event with my nephew (his mother, my sister, had to work and so did his father).

The procedure that day was for everyone to go to the classroom by a certain time. As the kids straggled in, the teacher had them put their stuff away and then sent them off in groups of four with a chaperone. The tours left over a ten or fifteen minute period. Roll wasn't called until after the tour was over.

Yes, I can see the obvious security problems with the above; this was ten years ago and in a likewise very rural area. The procedures at that school may well have changed, I don't know.

So, do we know for sure what procedure was followed at Kyron's school that morning?