Howard Grand Jury to meet on 3/17/2011

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http://bigcountryhomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=352736

"federal case tried in Abilene ends in conviction..Harvey Pelland....big springs man convicted....7 counts of child *advertiser censored*....first federal case heard in Abilene in 20 years"

So does this kinda' answer the question if federal charges could be filed against SA and/or BJD?

Gave no background of the case (when charged, etc)...will try to research.

JMO
 
I believe it can be either Federal or State. This question has been posed in our Ask the Lawyer thread so let's wait and let a lawyer weigh in on this. Thanks.
 
grandmaj said:
I believe it can be either Federal or State. This question has been posed in our Ask the Lawyer thread so let's wait and let a lawyer weigh in on this. Thanks.
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Thanks, Grandmaj, for referring me to the proper thread.....am learning...

:truce:
 
So now we are back to square one with the memory stick. CP on it or is this story just an update of an old story?

I'll put my money on Toombs until I hear official word otherwise.
 
Quote:
The results from the search warrants on the electronics were obtained by the Reporter-News through public information requests to the 32nd District Court in Sweetwater, which covers Fisher, Mitchell and Nolan counties
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Yes thank you missy for reminding me that it was due infact to the freedom of information act that this was obtained by a reporter..yes I agree that if LE wanted this to stay under wraps for the time being they definitely could have easily done so..but they chose to let it go public.. Knowing all of that I would then say it is quite likely that the time it was made public was completely coincidental and not that of a planned strategy as I had hoped that it was..

Now being reminded of this wonderful freedom of info act I really would like to know why local media{or any media for that fact}is not filing to have anything/everything related to Hailey case and now CP case released? Is it just straight up plain laziness as is being speculated that it is?..I certainly am interested to know why?

Its almost as if LE is just waiting for someone to ask..to let the next piece of info be made public..I know for certain in a couple other cases that it became apparent that LE was benefiting and counting on the media getting certain info released and therefor out there for the public..
 
The Freedom of Information Act does not allow you to automatically get records. It is not as lenient as some state laws like the Sunshine Laws in FLA.

Under the Law you can request records. The holder of the record has a right to redact and deny records which would compromise an ongoing criminal investigation.

Now having said that I'm of the opinion that the reporters may not be asking properly, or asking for specific records which may be subject to release.

But asking for all records, files etc., isn't a proper request for Public Records, it will be denied based on the investigatory exclusion in the law. I believe the law is there to protect the people from undue secrecy and wrongdoing in government and Its agencies.

I do not believe it is in the public's good, that records regarding a very active and ongoing police investigation be released.
 
grandmaj said:
The Freedom of Information Act does not allow you to automatically get records. It is not as lenient as some state laws like the Sunshine Laws in FLA.

Under the Law you can request records. The holder of the record has a right to redact and deny records which would compromise an ongoing criminal investigation.

Now having said that I'm of the opinion that the reporters may not be asking properly, or asking for specific records which may be subject to release.

But asking for all records, files etc., isn't a proper request for Public Records, it will be denied based on the investigatory exclusion in the law. I believe the law is there to protect the people from undue secrecy and wrongdoing in government and Its agencies.

I do not believe it is in the public's good, that records regarding a very active and ongoing police investigation be released.
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I agree completely that anything that would in the very least compromise the ongoing investigation is in no one's best interest..and I would expect that's the very reason why in so many cases that we the public see very little..which I have no problem admitting at times frustrating and at times we would just die for a little tidbit or scrap thrown our way..but no matter how impatient I get..we the public may get.. that's just tough and I know realistically it is only because of our system attempting to seek justice on behalf of the many victims in the cases that we follow..and I wouldn't want it any other way..

That said I do think that many of us got accustomed to following a couple of cases in Florida{Caylee and Haleigh}where there freedom of info act is much much more lenient..along with their local media IMO some of them being top-notch and on their game especially where the releasing of info to the public is concerned.. I know personally that sorta spoiled me as to having such access to those cases..

But as for Hailey and the Child *advertiser censored* investigations I do personally believe that the media is not doing their part and that there is indeed more info that would/could be available to the media and public..Just as you mentioned above possibly because of their not having the knowledge of how to go about requesting such info{especially with it being small town..pretty much surrounded with just more small towns..I'd say they've never had this type of cases that is presenting occurring..Maybe soon we will see or hear some more info in the coming weeks..For now I'll work on my patience and be happy with what Tricia has found out and confirmed for us straight from the DA's mouth..Billie being a POI...
 
SmoothOperator said:
Yes thank you missy for reminding me that it was due infact to the freedom of information act that this was obtained by a reporter..yes I agree that if LE wanted this to stay under wraps for the time being they definitely could have easily done so..but they chose to let it go public.. Knowing all of that I would then say it is quite likely that the time it was made public was completely coincidental and not that of a planned strategy as I had hoped that it was..

Now being reminded of this wonderful freedom of info act I really would like to know why local media{or any media for that fact}is not filing to have anything/everything related to Hailey case and now CP case released? Is it just straight up plain laziness as is being speculated that it is?..I certainly am interested to know why?
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I think because they have to know "what" to ask for, and since they don't know everything about the investigation, it's hard to know. For instance, the affidavits and search warrants were released to the newspapers early on because the media knew those existed.

I would bet if something else is released through the Freedom of Information Act it will be warrants and/or reports about what was sought or found at the dump sites (which were in different counties, I believe). These things could be pending in court right now for all we know.

SmoothOperator said:
Its almost as if LE is just waiting for someone to ask..to let the next piece of info be made public..I know for certain in a couple other cases that it became apparent that LE was benefiting and counting on the media getting certain info released and therefor out there for the public..
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I guess it is possible that the police could be working with local media to that extent, but I think they would be just as happy to keep it all under wraps while they work on the case. So the media trying to get bits and pieces is probably more of an irritation than a tool to use against SA or BD. JMO :twocents:

ETA: I see FOI as a tug-of-war between the media and the police. Sometimes it might benefit the investigation so we all cheer. Sometimes it might cause people to change their stories or lawyer up and then we all get downcast. I think it's questionable sometimes if this is helpful to the public, although I am pro-Sunshine laws in general.
 
In my opinoin LE seems to be making better use of the freedom of information act in this case.

The 911 call came after a statement from Billie about SA not threating Hailey.
The release of the Child *advertiser censored* infor came before the traffic 911 thing.
They in my opinon want Billie to shut her mouth.
Why would they want Billie to shut up?
 
ThoughtFox said:
I think because they have to know "what" to ask for, and since they don't know everything about the investigation, it's hard to know. For instance, the affidavits and search warrants were released to the newspapers early on because the media knew those existed.

I would bet if something else is released through the Freedom of Information Act it will be warrants and/or reports about what was sought or found at the dump sites (which were in different counties, I believe). These things could be pending in court right now for all we know.


I guess it is possible that the police could be working with local media to that extent, but I think they would be just as happy to keep it all under wraps while they work on the case. So the media trying to get bits and pieces is probably more of an irritation than a tool to use against SA or BD. JMO :twocents:

ETA: I see FOI as a tug-of-war between the media and the police. Sometimes it might benefit the investigation so we all cheer. Sometimes it might cause people to change their stories or lawyer up and then we all get downcast. I think it's questionable sometimes if this is helpful to the public, although I am pro-Sunshine laws in general.
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The DA has stated he has not rec'd the case yet, so I don't think all the records or findings have been released or filed with court yet? Right?
 
To take it before a grand jury they would need to have identified the person to be charged. Since there were multiple people who had access to the computer, they would have to determine who that was. That would not be simple, and probably isn't possible, in which case no one will be charged.
 
Tugela said:
To take it before a grand jury they would need to have identified the person to be charged. Since there were multiple people who had access to the computer, they would have to determine who that was. That would not be simple, and probably isn't possible, in which case no one will be charged.
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I really hope your wrong Tugela. Someone(s) got a big problem with storing that many images and we don't know if any local kids may be involved....kwim?

I hope they are able thru process of elimination. Father and mother working...cousin at school and I don't know the age of SA's brother....but school there also. Maybe the IP addy backed into from the stick goes to another computer they can't find? We're there other computers, laptops available to the "family". Surely cousin Cory took one with him to school...? And I still think as many do, there was a puter somehow, someway in the Chestnut St. residence....and DD would know that for sure.

I just have a hard time believing anyone could have that many pics for personal viewing only... and not sharing. The love of videoing by SA and other family members comes into question also, imo.

This *advertiser censored* case may certainly take awhile and HD's case can't really go anywhere until there something else to put the pressure on SA & BD.

Have to say I'm curious if the media is avoiding SA/BD or if they are telling the media no thanks at this point? Did BD quit her job or can she still go back?
 
Tugela said:
To take it before a grand jury they would need to have identified the person to be charged. Since there were multiple people who had access to the computer, they would have to determine who that was. That would not be simple, and probably isn't possible, in which case no one will be charged.
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Above BBM in black.. This just is not true.. Tho a tedious job yes..but not at all impossible to discern who wasn't viewing/downloading..purchasing/trading the child *advertiser censored* and are able to pinpoint exactly who was viewing/downloading..purchasing/trading the child *advertiser censored*..even down to the amount of times each image and/or video were viewed by a person..

Most people charged and convicted of child *advertiser censored* indeed live with others and not alone..the vast majority not only live with others but others have access to the computer where the child *advertiser censored* is found..So if it were as you state IMPOSSIBLE then we would not have all of the child pornographers as well as viewers of child *advertiser censored* charged..convicted ..and serving prison sentences.. There is a 95+% conviction rate for those charged with child *advertiser censored*.. That is a huge and vast majority of those tried for Child *advertiser censored* being successfully convicted and proven guilty..It is 100% possible that Federal forensic computer agents will narrow down and pinpoint exactly who is the guilty party who is responsible for the child *advertiser censored* being on a computer..

Little Somer Thompson's case can easily be googled or look through her threads here at WS..This exact thing was done in her case and that is how they found and arrested and charged the guy who raped and murdered her.. His computer turned over and was found to have child *advertiser censored* on it..Investigators were aware that Jared did not live alone and several had access to his computer..It took time but they pinpointed that it was he and no one else that had downloaded and viewed the child *advertiser censored*...

That is just the first case that quickly came to mind but there are hundreds..thousands of cases that this narrowing down and excluding and finally able to pinpoint and conclude who is responsible for the child *advertiser censored* and that person is charged with it..and again the conviction rate is 95+%..thats a huge success..

The guilty party responsible for the child *advertiser censored* on SA's mom's computer better bet his bottom dollar he's gonna be proven to be "the one"..no doubt about it..will take time but it is 100% possible and will be done..
 
SmoothOperator said:
IMO there has got to be a reason for all this madness..meaning there has got to be goood reason that out of the blue LE makes a HUGE/BOMBSHELL announcement of what was found on the computer and memory stick confiscated as a result of the search warrants.. There has to be a strategy to why??why? why? after many weeks with no peep from LE..not even any confirmations of the many many things that had broken or been leaked out in and around Hailey's entire case..NOTHING AT ALL since way back when LE named Shawn a POI and then a suspect..NOTHING AT ALL..

and then BAM! They lay out something as huge as Child *advertiser censored* being found and possibly involved with whats happened to this little girl...followed up by one single statement made by Toombs stating that child *advertiser censored* was found on both the computer and the memory stick..and then lips are sealed shut once again..

IMO its obvious that either computer forensics are not yet completed{i.e. narrowing down to who the actual user was that viewed/downloaded the CP on the dell home computer}..which if indeed thats the case..that they haVe not yet completed the forensics in narrowing it down to who and when the CP was bought/viewed/traded..then all the more the question of why at the very moment they did feel it necessary to drop the BOMBSHELL OF THE CP INVOLVEMENT??WHY NOT WAIT UNTIL THEY HAVE ALL FORENSICS AND SPECIFICS?..or they infact do have all the illicit details of the CP including who and just how much CP was viewed/downloaded/purchased and even possibly traded and that extremely important evidence has yielded something "else" that is making LE wait it out..wait for someone to "crack"..roll on another..etc..

I just feel there has got to be a very deliberate strategy to why they are waiting but most importantly there was a deliberate strategy to the move they made in suddenly deciding to publicly release the huge and outrageous Child *advertiser censored* involvement...

I am currently still pondering a couple different reasons..but would love to hear others opinions or views on the why? and why the very deliberate and specific timing of the bombshell being released?

**I know many have speculated that the bombshell was to keep BJD from attending and speaking at the Trafficking rally in Dallas..and I seriously have extreme doubts that this could be their reason..The rally is such an irrelevant event I just do not believe that the extreme weight and nature of this CP evidence was released to prohibit BJD from going or participating in a trafficking rally..no way..i just don't see it..jmo tho
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I thought it was because MSM had requested it through the Freedom of Information Act, and it was coming out because the one of the news stations began reporting it, not because LE had a strategy.
God I *wish* it was because they had a strategy.
I don't think it was the case this particular time though.
 
Tugela said:
To take it before a grand jury they would need to have identified the person to be charged. Since there were multiple people who had access to the computer, they would have to determine who that was. That would not be simple, and probably isn't possible, in which case no one will be charged.
Click to expand...


That was according to SA and I don't believe anything he says.
 
Soulmagent said:
In my opinoin LE seems to be making better use of the freedom of information act in this case.

The 911 call came after a statement from Billie about SA not threating Hailey.
The release of the Child *advertiser censored* infor came before the traffic 911 thing.
They in my opinon want Billie to shut her mouth.
Why would they want Billie to shut up?
Click to expand...

Maybe they want BJD to shut up but by everyone ignoring her and not requesting interviews (removing her from the limelight). What is she doing all day? Whom does she have contact with? Does she leave her house regularly? Who comes to visit her? Is she still able to get her illegal drugs (that she and SA admitted to purchasing for personal use)? I wonder how ofter she used her work computer for personal reasons - I know if I can't be on the computer everyday, I feel disconnected from the world...is that stressful for her?

Is she pacing the house like a caged animal? Is she getting ready to break her silence and make a deal? Hopefully, her world is falling totally apart because she sure didn't do a good job of keeping HD world safe.

I think she likes to be in control and right now, hopefully, all she is controlling is the remote....:crazy:

JMO

And where is the video camera that they used for their personal encounters...SA liked the camera to much to not own one???
 
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