IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #12

[laura slp]

Hi all -- song22 made me want to chime in as well as a long-time lurker (since Jonathan Foster's case) and I cant even remember when I registered. You regulars are amazing and brilliant, and I have never been able to add any substance to your hard work. I live in San Francisco, and I have two kids age 10 and 14.
Dovebar had asked earlier about transient workers. I recently visited western Iowa (for a family reunion) and where we were in a very rural area, workers consisted of longtime locals, some in their 70s and 80s. Not sure if that applies to Evansdale.
Thank you all for your hard work and diligence. I feel incredibly sad, but so comforted to know that there is a community out there working for Elizabeth and Lyric, and others.

 

[SK_Hunter]

I wonder if the "Accidental Pimp" had a delivery to a former hometown?

White Astrovan
An abduction method that could fit this case

http://thegazette.com/2012/08/02/cedar-rapids-police-fielding-several-white-van-tips/

Delete if discussed

Does "Meat Packer" imply Butcher?

Any locals on the board familiar with K & W Sausage and Specialty Meats on Wema? Big building? Small? Garage/Warehouse? Populated street? Dead end street? TIA

 

[Marilynilpa]

Uh oh! Now I fel guilty for being registered but just lurking, so I will introduce myself. I have been following these posts from the very beginning. I live in DES Moines and have never followed a case before, but since It's Iowa, It hit home. I have kids 8,10, and 14. I was pretty convinced at first that this was related to family and drugs. Now I fear more that it is a sex offender. It makes me very sad. I read every single post, but I like to take a long time to think things through and am shy about posting. I read here mostly to get a clearer sense of the story. I've learned how to sleuth fairly well from listening in, and listening to the scanner has been enlightening. One thing that's been an eye-opener to me is how distorted things get in the media, just by poor word choices alone. When I fist registered I was ready to post a lot of my opinions and ideas, but I couldn't get signed on properly! Then after the passage of time people pretty much have gone through every imaginable scenario, and I don't quite know what else to add. Anyway, I'm lurking but I'm not creepy!

Great first post! Thanks for joining us, and please don't be shy about posting.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Can someone who is familiar with the geography of the area where the girls live answer a question for me? Are there any old abandoned water wells in the area? Through the years, I have read news accounts of people falling into abandoned wells. I know in my area an old well is sometimes found near where a farm was located. When one is found, it is capped with concrete.

Not within city limits.

There are probably some uncapped wells in rural areas but most farmers are very aware of the risk and take the effort to cap off an unused well.

However, septic systems are a possibility. Some rural residents have the septic system cover buried down in the grass but most systems that have been installed in the last 30 years or so have a raised concrete stem with the cover on the top. It's very obvious if you know what you're looking for.

The raised stem is to keep groundwater out of the septic system if there is a little temporary water cover or flooding from the rain.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Hi all -- song22 made me want to chime in as well as a long-time lurker (since Jonathan Foster's case) and I cant even remember when I registered. You regulars are amazing and brilliant, and I have never been able to add any substance to your hard work. I live in San Francisco, and I have two kids age 10 and 14.
Dovebar had asked earlier about transient workers. I recently visited western Iowa (for a family reunion) and where we were in a very rural area, workers consisted of longtime locals, some in their 70s and 80s. Not sure if that applies to Evansdale.
Thank you all for your hard work and diligence. I feel incredibly sad, but so comforted to know that there is a community out there working for Elizabeth and Lyric, and others.

Welcome, and please continue lurking if you must - although we'd love to have you post your ideas on here, IMO

 

[GrainneDhu]

The stranger-danger talk does not work if children do not have the right response when confronted with abduction. I hadn't heard of drop to the ground before. Personally, I tell children to run. Is dropping to the ground better? Is it advantageous for adults to drop to the ground when confronted with a predator?

It is situational.

In an isolated area, dropping to the ground may be exactly what the perp wants the victim to do anyway.

Making a lot of noise is usually good but people need other options as well, in case they find themselves unable to make noise at the time (hard to predict how people will actually react).

Running is often a good option.

I think what is most useful is going over various options and helping your kids think through the options they come up with themselves, so that when the time comes, they aren't so likely to become mentally stuck if the situation doesn't fit one option.

 

[nikb]

Just throwing spaghetti at the wall here..

Totally OT but this statement cracked me up (much needed these days for lots of us I think). I love to cook and do so often but I had never heard this phrase until my brother was helping to teach my newly-single Dad how to cook. I still haven't tried slinging noodles at the wall but I might have to try it.

 

[cindersoot]

I have found that over and over again that the public is almost always your best and most effective partner in bringing the perp or perps to justice. Someone out there knows him. Someone out there has seen or heard something, someone out there has the missing piece to the puzzle. To LE and FBI..the more you share with the public, the more they are going to be able to help you.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I have found that over and over again that the public is almost always your best and most effective partner in bringing the perp or perps to justice. Someone out there knows him. Someone out there has seen or heard something, someone out there has the missing piece to the puzzle. To LE and FBI..the more you share with the public, the more they are going to be able to help you.

This is true...and you can be certain they are reading this forum.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I just realized that if this picture was taken two days after the lake draining began, then the drainage pipe was mostly submerged when the girls were abducted. I don't think that they were doing anything in connection with the drainage pipe. For some reason, they stopped their bikes at the gate and likely went through ... but there was most likely no visible "jetty". There seems to be very little ground to walk on without stepping in the water after going through the gate ... but the water is leech infested. Did the girls know that?

Elizabeth's purse was found 20 feet east of where the bikes were leaning against a fence. Did she normally leave her things lying on the ground to collect later, or is she the type of child to keep her things close?

If you look carefully at the rock jetty, you can see the usual water level mark on it a good foot higher than the water level pictured. So there would have been rock jetty visible.

I don't see any reason to think they went through the gates at all. Going through the gates to place her purse by hand would have meant edging along a narrow strip of land while clinging to the fence.

A much more likely possibility in my opinion is that either Elizabeth was coerced into throwing her own purse over the fence or someone grabbed the purse from her and threw it over the fence.

Possible but difficult to assess the likelihood is that Lyric threw the purse over the fence during a spat with Elizabeth, which kept them in place until the predator came along. To assess the likelihood, I'd need to know a lot more about how the two girls usually related, whether Lyric had a known history of playing pranks like that, etc.

 

[Copper]

Does "Meat Packer" imply Butcher?

Any locals on the board familiar with K & W Sausage and Specialty Meats on Wema? Big building? Small? Garage/Warehouse? Populated street? Dead end street? TIA

Can't speak to that meat shop. But meat packer isn't a butcher. When I think of a butcher, it is a person who butchers an animal and then sells the meat all at the same site. Meat packing is much more like a factory where animals are slaughtered and then packed for transport elsewhere.

 

[nikb]

I would agree, but is this forum (Websleuth) a popular forum that people would know of? I just happened to come across it myself.

I don't know but I found it on a random internet search, so I have to think it's not that hard to find. I've even seen it mentioned in comments in MSM articles online.

 

[cindersoot]

If you look carefully at the rock jetty, you can see the usual water level mark on it a good foot higher than the water level pictured. So there would have been rock jetty visible.

I don't see any reason to think they went through the gates at all. Going through the gates to place her purse by hand would have meant edging along a narrow strip of land while clinging to the fence.

A much more likely possibility in my opinion is that either Elizabeth was coerced into throwing her own purse over the fence or someone grabbed the purse from her and threw it over the fence.

Possible but difficult to assess the likelihood is that Lyric threw the purse over the fence during a spat with Elizabeth, which kept them in place until the predator came along. To assess the likelihood, I'd need to know a lot more about how the two girls usually related, whether Lyric had a known history of playing pranks like that, etc.

Im beginning to think the purse was thrown to shore from a boat.

 

[roseofsharon]

If you look carefully at the rock jetty, you can see the usual water level mark on it a good foot higher than the water level pictured. So there would have been rock jetty visible.

I don't see any reason to think they went through the gates at all. Going through the gates to place her purse by hand would have meant edging along a narrow strip of land while clinging to the fence.

A much more likely possibility in my opinion is that either Elizabeth was coerced into throwing her own purse over the fence or someone grabbed the purse from her and threw it over the fence.

Possible but difficult to assess the likelihood is that Lyric threw the purse over the fence during a spat with Elizabeth, which kept them in place until the predator came along. To assess the likelihood, I'd need to know a lot more about how the two girls usually related, whether Lyric had a known history of playing pranks like that, etc.

I could see the perp asking E ... what's in your purse and her responding just my cell phone (I don't think a child, in her circumstances, would further explain that she couldn't make a call, but only play a couple of games on the phone). The perp was in a hurry and probably told her to toss it. That's how I see it being where it was. Just IMO

 

[cindersoot]

My profile of this guy is he is local, lives near the lake, is in his 30's and married with kids. Has watched the girls ride their bikes on numerous times. Has fantasized about abducting them and planned it.

 

[SapphireSteel]

My profile of this guy is he is local, lives near the lake, is in his 30's and married with kids. Has watched the girls ride their bikes on numerous times. Has fantasized about abducting them and planned it.

How do you think he did it?

Physically, I mean, with no one seeing or hearing a thing?

 

[cindersoot]

How do you think he did it?

Physically, I mean, with no one seeing or hearing a thing?

As I said before he probally knew the house across the lake was empty and probally knows his neighbors habits. It was very hot that day and homes have windows shut and air on. It was during the time people are normally working.

 

[cluciano63]

Right now, if you google Lyric's full name for the last hour, WS postings are the first two sites listed.

I think that happens more to WS users...when I do a google like on my husband's computer, WS does not come up at first.

 

[roseofsharon]

As I said before he probally knew the house across the lake was empty and probally knows his neighbors habits. It was very hot that day and homes have windows shut and air on. It was during the time people are normally working.

Cinder, do you think this perp works a night shift or is unemployed or other. TIA

 

[SapphireSteel]

As I said before he probally knew the house across the lake was empty and probally knows his neighbors habits. It was very hot that day and homes have windows shut and air on. It was during the time people are normally working.

There were plenty of people about, exercising at the lake, I live in a very hot environment and the streets are deserted on hot days...this was not the case here.

Indeed, the girls wouldn't have gone on a ride at all, if it was extremely hot IMO.

It was also school holidays so there were quite a few people about who normally would not be about.

We have reports of people cycling, people jogging, paddling and fishing. Lots of folk at the lake that day.

So...exactly how would a single perp get two girls (one of whom was adult sized) to drop their bikes, surrender their purse, and walk without sound to a house that has already been searched and cleared, past fishermen, cyclists, joggers and paddleboaters, all unseen?

Not dismissing your opinion, just trying to see in my minds eye, how you think it could be done?

:moo: