IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #5

[BlueIris]

I don't have a link, but IIRC, there was an article or video saying the bikes were headed west.

I'm a little surprised no one or the biker didn't stop to check things out. I would, especially if I knew the trail and where the gate was. It would be strange in such a desolute area of the trail, two children's bikes and them not around.....and a gate to the lakeside. Not to mention the high fences to confine the area even more, kwim? It not like it was open trail and kids threw the bikes down to explore an open area.

Upthread, someone posted the video from Big and Tall (presumably) outside camera and it shows the girls heading away from the area. I don't know where the camera is in relation to the road leading to the lake, but perhaps someone local could watch it and tell us if they were heading towards the lake or the opposite way? thanks.

 

[Wondergirl]

Have there been any recent vehicle fires?

Whose vehicle has been stolen or reported missing recently?

Whose vehicle has been taken off the road?

Brandon Lavergne was recently charged with the murder of Mickey Schunick, who was probably hit from behind while riding her bike at night.

He drove his truck to another state, reported it missing, set it on fire. One would presume to hide evidence, as his truck had been recorded and released on video as a VOI. He then proceeded to PURCHASE ANOTHER IDENTICAL TRUCK, since he is an RSO, and his truck information is monitored by LE.

Some parts of this scenario may be played out here in the girls case.

Where are you sweet Elizabeth and Lyric?



*

 

[BlueIris]

The girls had to be at the lake that day because the dogs picked up their scent.

Not sure why Aunt Tammy is not talking, yet Misty spoke with KWWL yesterday and she supposedly was advised by a lawyer not to speak to the media?

Was thinking about that -
Is it possible the bikes were covered in the girl's scent? Perhaps the abductor(s) went with the bikes to the dock or wherever the dogs alerted? Walked around with the bikes, to saturate the area and confuse investigators etc? I think the bikes would still be carrying a good amount of scent on a hot and sweaty day -- not sure if the scent would still be shedding off the bikes or not though. Also - were the dogs used in the lederman's parking lot to try to find more about where the kids exactly went?

 

[Thinkzerz]

I think that all flyers of missing kids should have "please anyone in the area check your cameras, home and businesses". JMO

To much time has been wasted JMO

 

[Mjskit]

Thanks for the timeline, OP.

One thing I cannot wrap my head around or find an explanation for, though I have been trying, is why the police were called right after a witness said he saw the girls? If I was out looking for my 8 and 10 yr old kids, and someone said they just saw them riding thataway, pretty sure I would feel a sense of relief that they had been seen and I knew where to look.

I suspect if I called my local pd and said my kids were late returning home but had just been seen riding their bikes at a family park with an awesome playground, I would be lucky if they sent one or two officers within the hour. There would be no swarming within 15 minutes.

I keep wondering if there was a reason for family and police to assume the girls were in some kind of danger? Maybe I just misunderstood the timeline or missed something, so I hope someone can clarify.
Apologies as I tried asking this before, though perhaps not as clearly ( hope it is clear now) but I think my post may have been lost in the shuffle during a flurry of posting activity.

And if I knew my kids were just seen 15 minutes prior I would yell for them and walk/run the trail looking for them. Then if I couldn't find them I would call LE. Seems strange to me.

I think, IMO, the family was threatened before the abduction that something bad would happen if DM gave information on his 'business' partners. That could be why the family stated from the beginning that it was an abduction. IMO

 

[elepher50]

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kera Mashek, reporter, KWWL, do you know if the bikes were screwed on the ground or if they were neatly placed? And what about the bags, 20 feet away?

KERA MASHEK, REPORTER, KWWL: We have been told that the bikes were laying very neatly, just like any child that might get off their bike and go for a walk. They were just sitting right there along the lake side like any other ordinary day, nothing really awry with that. And the purse was also just kind of sat down -- not like it was thrown around or that they would, you know, been involved in a struggle of any kind.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/ijvm.01.html

And one man stepped forward and said, "Yes, I seen them going east on the bike trail at about 2:30." Now, whether he`s telling the truth or not, they do have this man`s name. You know, I don`t know. Whether he`s a person of interest, I don`t know.

 

[Simp]

I must say this. Everyone compare your clocks. As I sit here now typing this, my cell phone says the time is 9:16 and my iPad says it's 9:20. My husbands cell phone says it is 9:22. If we are comparing times, its impossible to get down to the minute with different devices. I have worked emergency medicine for years and when working a code you always use ONE time piece when documenting. My point is, comparing time from the video where the girls were seen to the time the bike rider says he saw the bikes could be off as much as 10 extra minutes or so. So instead of 12:15 siting to 12:20 siting of bikes you could be looking at 6-10 extra minutes there. Lord I hope that makes since and I haven't just made a fool of myself.

 

[Unscripted]

The times must be wrong, They were seen downtown at 12:15 and it was posted earlier that it takes 7-8 minutes to travel to the lake by bike. Yet the bikes were seen on the path at 12:20. Not possible.

I agree, even if they were riding quickly to the lake and bike path they still had to put their bikes down and get down to the lake. Perhaps the time stamp on the security camera was off slightly or (I’m sure this has been verified by LE though) not adjusted for Daylight Saving Time?

 

[hollyblue]

I drove by Mr. C's house and he is a good 2 blocks away. The girls most likey took Evans road and then turned right to go to the parking lot of Meyers Lake. Took the trail around the lake. Aunt T said that a person at the lake saw them ride around the trail at 2:30. JMO


What do you think Olli?

Mods, if this inappropriate, please delete.

There is a close male relative with the initials of JC that lives...or did.. only blocks from the lake. (East) Maybe this is how the girls knew of the area..and/or the lake and the reason they were riding the bikes there?

 

[Wondergirl]

Who did Elizabeth and Lyric ride to meet in the bike dump location?

It had to be pre-arranged.

If the last known confirmed sighting is 12:15 pm at the Big and Tall Store, and it really was 12:27 pm when the biker went past the dumped bikes on the trail, that window of time is so narrow, there must have been a pre-arranged meeting to take place there. The only exception might be, if the perp scooped them sometime after 12:15, and immediately got the bikes to that dump location.

Who were the girls meeting?

 

[hollyblue]

Upthread, someone posted the video from Big and Tall (presumably) outside camera and it shows the girls heading away from the area. I don't know where the camera is in relation to the road leading to the lake, but perhaps someone local could watch it and tell us if they were heading towards the lake or the opposite way? thanks.

Thanks BlueIris, but I responding to the way the bikes were found at the lake.

 

[Wondergirl]

Thanks for the timeline, OP.

One thing I cannot wrap my head around or find an explanation for, though I have been trying, is why the police were called right after a witness said he saw the girls? If I was out looking for my 8 and 10 yr old kids, and someone said they just saw them riding thataway, pretty sure I would feel a sense of relief that they had been seen and I knew where to look.

I suspect if I called my local pd and said my kids were late returning home but had just been seen riding their bikes at a family park with an awesome playground, I would be lucky if they sent one or two officers within the hour. There would be no swarming within 15 minutes.

I keep wondering if there was a reason for family and police to assume the girls were in some kind of danger? Maybe I just misunderstood the timeline or missed something, so I hope someone can clarify.
Apologies as I tried asking this before, though perhaps not as clearly ( hope it is clear now) but I think my post may have been lost in the shuffle during a flurry of posting activity.

This is a GREAT question.

I can't recall, did the man tell the family he had just seen them? If so, your question is extremely relevant, IMO.

 

[Wondergirl]

I must say this. Everyone compare your clocks. As I sit here now typing this, my cell phone says the time is 9:16 and my iPad says it's 9:20. My husbands cell phone says it is 9:22. If we are comparing times, its impossible to get down to the minute with different devices. I have worked emergency medicine for years and when working a code you always use ONE time piece when documenting. My point is, comparing time from the video where the girls were seen to the time the bike rider says he saw the bikes could be off as much as 10 extra minutes or so. So instead of 12:15 siting to 12:20 siting of bikes you could be looking at 6-10 extra minutes there. Lord I hope that makes since and I haven't just made a fool of myself.

Makes perfect sense, and is a great point, Simp, ITA.

Either way, it is still an extremely tight timeline, but, of course, you have to be discounting the 2:30 pm sighting, because, otherwise you end up with bikes on trail at 12:27, girls doing "whatever" until 2:30 sighting, and bikes dumped back again for the police to discover.

Doesn't seem possible to me.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

Since I am assuming the police checked the accuracy of the security camera and concluded it was accurate, I would think that the cell phone time would have been checked as well. My cell phone is always the most accurate of all my clocks. And they could've easily checked the daughter's phone to see what time the call was received on her end. If there is a discrepancy in the 12:20 or so time, it would maybe only be a minute or two. That still leaves a very small window of opportunity, especially when the bikes seemed to be lying neatly and the purse did not appear to be thrown. Very strange. This whole thing just makes me heartsick

 

[Wondergirl]

If a vehicle had been used to transport the girls there could be an article of clothing, an earring or a shoe, blood evidence or hair. If it was used to transport a dead body it would stink by now, even if just a small amount of body fluid was left. ( Remember Casey Anthony's trunk?)

I think that stopping vehicles to check trunks could also be a good excuse to observe the demeanor of the people in the vehicle. Someone who is overly anxious could be hiding guilty knowledge. Perps are known for finding ways to be close to the investigation, so it's a good idea to know who is hanging around, watching LE.

THANK-YOU, TGIR!!!

It stuck out to me when it was released that LE climbed RIGHT IN the trunk of the vehicles at the checkpoint.

DECOMP.

That's why they climbed right in.

You solved the puzzle for me. LE is ON it.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

The times must be wrong, They were seen downtown at 12:15 and it was posted earlier that it takes 7-8 minutes to travel to the lake by bike. Yet the bikes were seen on the path at 12:20. Not possible.

I have just now looked at the distance and timings and I agree.

I really don't think whatever happened to these girls, happened at the lake.

But even if they were taken off the street just out of the cameras view, it is still quite difficult to believe the perp was able to subdue both girls, get bikes in vehicle, not be seen and get to where the bikes were found dumped in ~5 minutes.

I don't know if I'm missing something or if something is very off here:waitasec:

 

[hollyblue]

Thanks for the timeline, OP.

One thing I cannot wrap my head around or find an explanation for, though I have been trying, is why the police were called right after a witness said he saw the girls? If I was out looking for my 8 and 10 yr old kids, and someone said they just saw them riding thataway, pretty sure I would feel a sense of relief that they had been seen and I knew where to look.

I suspect if I called my local pd and said my kids were late returning home but had just been seen riding their bikes at a family park with an awesome playground, I would be lucky if they sent one or two officers within the hour. There would be no swarming within 15 minutes.

I keep wondering if there was a reason for family and police to assume the girls were in some kind of danger? Maybe I just misunderstood the timeline or missed something, so I hope someone can clarify.
Apologies as I tried asking this before, though perhaps not as clearly ( hope it is clear now) but I think my post may have been lost in the shuffle during a flurry of posting activity.

Separate autos. Heather had gone directly to the police station to report them missing and Gma, MCM? and the son were at the lake. Not sure if someone at the lake called Heather...and she relayed the info or if they called LE directly. What I missed is how Tammy fit into the search?

I can't figure out why the boy wasn't sent to run and check out the trail?

 

[TxLady2]

I have read this as well- I don't make my kids converse with people we don't know well. If they get a bad feeling, I want them to be able to follow their instincts! I have found my kids to be pretty good at reading people so far, and I am not going to step in and force them. I expect them to be nice and polite to people we know of course.

Good! Being polite and well-mannered is one thing but a child should never feel uncomfortable around someone they don't know well. I see many babies and toddlers when I am out and about and I often talk to them or comment on how cute they are, but I NEVER get close enough to touch them, I stay several feet back. And I always try to avoid making the child or their parents feel uncomfortable in any way. Most are okay with it, but if I see that the child or the parent is especially wary, I smile and move on. Even sweet old grandma-type ladies can scare a child if they're not careful, I had a few scary moments when I was a child!!

 

[palaminodee]

Since I am assuming the police checked the accuracy of the security camera and concluded it was accurate, I would think that the cell phone time would have been checked as well. My cell phone is always the most accurate of all my clocks. And they could've easily checked the daughter's phone to see what time the call was received on her end. If there is a discrepancy in the 12:20 or so time, it would maybe only be a minute or two. That still leaves a very small window of opportunity, especially when the bikes seemed to be lying neatly and the purse did not appear to be thrown. Very strange. This whole thing just makes me heartsick

I would think cell phone times are accurate, they come from the tower/satellite.

 

[Unscripted]

Unless the girls were carrying snacks (or someone gave them candy) I think they would have gotten hungry and gone home to have a bit of lunch by 1:00. Gma said they were always in and out of the house for a V-8 juice etc.

(I guess the days of dye-infused, “just add water and 10 cups of sugar” Kool-Aid is passe.)