IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #5

[Thespyma]

GrainneDhu says-

"It was probably hours after the girls were abducted that it was realised they had disappeared."

With this fact, has anyone considered the possibility of the person(s) who may have taken the children being several hours away down a major highway (possible to even be on I-35) before the LE are even notified and able to do any investigating? It seems possible that if one took off with the girls and headed Gilbert to River Forest, onto 380s to 80w to 35s. It may be far-fetched but at this point ever possibility should be considered IMO. So far I believe those who think the children had some knowledge of whoever may have taken them. My daughter would certainly scream and fight if anyone tried to get her to go somewhere unless they were very close to the family.

 

[sweetpea33]

If one girl was trailing the other, it would have been easy to lure one girl and knock her out. The second would have stopped her bike at her friend's bike. She was then a sitting duck for the same treatment.

Trusting the dogs, I think evidence points to the fact that one or both girls were lured to the wood's edge - maybe with a puppy, etc. Something that would stop them in their tracks and make them get off their bikes. It would be easy to snatch them into the woods where there was plenty of cover to tie them up and cart them off.

Does anyone know whether the dogs lost the scent in the woods? Were the dogs even led into the woods to search?

When describing the FBI dogs, Aunt Tammy said one got one girl's scent and went up the trail a ways and right to the edge of the woods. then the second dog with the other girl's scent did the same. LE then had the family leave so we don't know what scent or where it went after that if any where.

 

[threecrazykids]

Make sure you tell her that her friends BEST chance is for her to run for help and get help quickly.

That is exactly what I told her! I explained how once in a car, chances go down of survival etc. I think it really scared her though because she sees the posters up in town, has watched all the local newscasts, and knows exactly where this place is they were taken from. When I turned the story into her and one of her best friends it upset her.

I told her that no matter HOW hard it is...she would have to leave her friend and run. That would be her best chance of helping her friend remain alive.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Thank you!
So what do we take from this bit of info? G'ma was mistakenly off on her time? Fudged the time bc she wasn't sure?
That certainly complicates the bikes on the trail sighting info- or does it?
Does the video sighting coincide with the grass waterer's eye witness account?
Gosh, where in the world are they?

It was Aunt Tammy that said 11:30 am.

I am absolutely, totally convinced that she means well but, as someone posted in the last thread, she has made several errors in stating what she believes are the facts.

Or, I've wondered if both times were correct. Grandma saw them as they left the house at 11:30 am and then she looked outside and saw them again at 12:15 pm. Depending on exactly how the question was asked and how the person being questioned interpreted the question, I think either answer could be elicited.

The video footage does prove the girls were alive at 12:15 pm. I think there were some people who wondered if they may have been disappeared earlier by someone within the family and Grandma was lying about them being alive at 12:15 pm.

The grass waterer did not narrow the time window any further than that he saw them at some time between noon and 3 pm; so, yes, this does coincide with his account.

If only I could answer your question about where they were, I wouldn't be tippy-tapping on my computer, I'd be on the phone to the tip line and waiting with bated breath to hear "they're HOME!"

 

[liltexans]

GrainneDhu says-

With this fact, has anyone considered the possibility of the person(s) who may have taken the children being several hours away down a major highway (possible to even be on I-35) before the LE are even notified and able to do any investigating? It seems possible that if one took off with the girls and headed Gilbert to River Forest, onto 380s to 80w to 35s. It may be far-fetched but at this point ever possibility should be considered IMO. So far I believe those who think the children had some knowledge of whoever may have taken them. My daughter would certainly scream and fight if anyone tried to get her to go somewhere unless they were very close to the family.

Welcome to WS!

:wagon:

 

[GrainneDhu]

For the life of me, I do not know why LE insisted the community was not in danger. Did they assume the girls were in the lake ? I'm sorry , but to insist that there is no reason for alarm when two girls have been abducted is just wrong.

If you take the question literally, as in are children in Evansdale in danger right this moment, then I'd say "nope."

Right now, that tiny town is crawling with more LE (including FBI and DCI) than at any point in history. I'm sure that today, the safest place in Iowa for children is Evansdale.

If I were asked if children in Evansdale are at higher risk over the course of the next year, assuming no perpetrator is arrested, I'd say "yes." This infusion of LE will not last forever.

 

[Mjskit]

The bikes were moved. The cyclist said the bikes were on the trail (12:20 - 12:27) yet when LE found them they were leaning against the fence ( abt 4). So, IMO, the perp/s could have had a 3 1/2 hours time frame not just 5 - 10 minutes.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Don't know if this has been posted but here is the video showing the girls on their bikes.

Actually, it is bad quality so I can't believe they can tell it is them.

http://www.kgan.com/shared/newsroom/top_stories/videos/kgan_vid_12072.shtml

I think they could show family members the video photos (they're still shots rather than moving photos) and the entire family ID'd them in order to get a more possible ID.

People can recognise people they know from remarkably little visual information.

But I can see why the family couldn't ID what clothes they were wearing from those video shots.

ETA: have each family member look at the photos and ID them separately, from a line up of other shots of bicyclists from the same camera.

 

[Confusion]

I wanted to clear something else up too. I don't think Tammy was lying. She said the girls left the house at 11:30, and their grandmother said she saw them at 12:15. Both could easily be true.

 

[Shelby2]

When describing the FBI dogs, Aunt Tammy said one got one girl's scent and went up the trail a ways and right to the edge of the woods. then the second dog with the other girl's scent did the same. LE then had the family leave so we don't know what scent or where it went after that if any where.

Then there's this:
Scent dogs used by searchers looking for signs of two missing young girls in Iowa ran around a lake and stopped at the water's edge, the mother of one of the girls said.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/17/us/iowa-missing-cousins/index.html

 

[Kamille]

I think she said they took her cell phone and their computer if I recall. They removed info off the phones and returned them and that the phones didn't work properly after they removed the info. I don't remember her saying they took her car, but she may have. As much as I try to keep up, I still seem to miss so much.

If you watch to the end of the video you can see her talking to the reporter with her mother and she clearly states that they took her phone and car the night they were awoken and interrogated for another 3 hours. Which was six days into the disappearance, on Wednesday. So they took her phone at the beginning, give it back and then took it again, along with her car.

And I'd imagine they had warrants this time?

MOO

 

[dovebar]

The bikes were moved. The cyclist said the bikes were on the trail (12:20 - 12:27) yet when LE found them they were leaning against the fence ( abt 4). So, IMO, the perp/s could have had a 3 1/2 hours time frame not just 5 - 10 minutes.

So this actually suggests that the perp or perps was still in the area, with the girls, when the cyclist nearly ran into the bikes. Perhaps because the perp realized how noticeable the bikes were, he moved them.

Just guessing but....this suggests to me that
- someone else found the bikes and moved them, but for some reason, has not come forward (or they have and LE isn't saying so)
- OR the perp was not in a vehicle like a truck, because if they did not want the bikes found, they could have tossed the bikes inside as well; they made them less noticeable but wanted it to look like the girls had parked their bikes and walked off to the lake
- the perp had immobilized the girls - either with something like chloroform or knocking them over the head or duct tape - but he felt he had time to move the bikes
- makes me think there was more than one perp. Two girls is a lot to move by yourself, unless you have a vehicle right there. Two victims are harder to control than one

JMO

 

[Kamille]

I wanted to clear something else up too. I don't think Tammy was lying. She said the girls left the house at 11:30, and their grandmother said she saw them at 12:15. Both could easily be true.

Can anyone local tell us exactly where and what street that video camera is on by looking at the building it is mounted to? :waitasec:

 

[nightowl]

Wow. If Elizabeth was in front and Lyric was trailing behind; then that would fit the theory that Elizabeth may have been the main target. There could be someone who had seen them bike riding unsupervised on the trail prior to this day. Also, if I remember correctly, Aunt Tammy said that the area of the woods that the dogs went to was close to the area where a car could have been parked for quick access out of the woods/park? The perp could have parked his vehicle there; and even been waiting on or by the trail.

Do we know how much Elizabeth weighs? Assuming her pictures are current, she looks very small and easy to carry. He could have literally grabbed Elizabeth and carried her up the trail. Lyric could have run after them and the perp could have forced Elizabeth into the vehicle and then forced Lyric in too.

What is really sad is, in this potential scenario, Ted the cyclist would have arrived on the scene just minutes after the girls were taken.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Well, that just made the hair on the back of my neck stand straight up. :what:

Thanks! I think.

 

[nightowl]

I wanted to clear something else up too. I don't think Tammy was lying. She said the girls left the house at 11:30, and their grandmother said she saw them at 12:15. Both could easily be true.

If the girls left the house on their bikes at 11:30; then they would have been riding their bikes around the area for nearly an hour before they disappeared. This would have given a perp time to spot them and come up with a solid plan to grab them. Perhaps they had already biked around the trail one time and he positioned himself to grab them on thier second time around the trail. So scary.

 

[GrainneDhu]

What if the time the bikes were found was pushed up to 12:20?

That was obviously not doable. I'm not convinced by the msm article you quoted since 12:27 pm was cited in so many of the articles I've read in other sources. Could be a typo.

Also, I suppose that the time on the video could be inaccurate, although I would tend to assume LE checked to make sure it was accurate.

If it was accurate, then either those were bikes belonging to two other kids or it was as ConfusingGuy suggested: the bikes were a pre-arranged trap by the perpetrator (I really like this idea).

 

[GrainneDhu]

I just thought of another thing LE may have been checking for at the roadblocks today.

Any vehicle, particularly one that was not particularly clean on the outside, that were very clean inside and smelled strongly of cleaning agents. Or any vehicle that was professionally detailed in the previous week.

I doubt that would be enough for probable cause but if I were running things, I'd note that license plate, run it and then wait to see if the same name pops up again in another part of the investigation.

 

[Kamille]

How is it possible that there are 9 registered sex offenders living at this address which appears to be a motel?

http://www.iowasexoffender.com/geo/...cluster=true&lat=42.55529785&lon=-92.33760071

:waitasec:

 

[GrainneDhu]

GrainneDhu says-

With this fact, has anyone considered the possibility of the person(s) who may have taken the children being several hours away down a major highway (possible to even be on I-35) before the LE are even notified and able to do any investigating? It seems possible that if one took off with the girls and headed Gilbert to River Forest, onto 380s to 80w to 35s. It may be far-fetched but at this point ever possibility should be considered IMO. So far I believe those who think the children had some knowledge of whoever may have taken them. My daughter would certainly scream and fight if anyone tried to get her to go somewhere unless they were very close to the family.

Ask her what she'd do if her sister (or best friend) was being held and threatened by a stranger displaying a weapon.

I'd cut directly west on Hwy 20 and pick up I-35 somewhere north of Ames. Since this is construction season in Iowa, there's no guarantee that any given stretch of an interstate is actually faster than a 2 lane highway.

I get what you mean, though.

I think the place where their bicycles were found really suggests someone with local knowledge but that doesn't preclude a predator who moved away three years ago from coming back to their old stomping ground to do a little hunting.

The statistics suggest that the girls are somewhere within a 25 mile radius, if I recall them correctly.

But the possibility that they may have been taken out of Iowa is why I'm glad the girls are drawing media attention from all over the world.