IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #6

[SapphireSteel]

Ok well first of all, if I have spelt Mr Gamerbinger's name wrong please correct me because it's unintentional.

I have just been reading more and cannot find who gave LE the info about our one legged paddle boat guy, it has just "appeared" as far as I can see, so it may even be from the tip line. I don't wish to credit Mr Gamerbinger for the evidence if he's not the one who reported it.

Either way, if you have been in one of those things as I have, it is not something a grown adult is likely to do for fun on a Friday afternoon, without company. IMO. Also, where is it now? They don't just launch themselves. If it exists, it's either still in/near the lake, or someone had to tow it away...they may not be heavy but they're awkward and not easy to carry around single handedly.

Another point is that Misty NEVER claimed that LE told her she passed the LDT. What she ACTUALLY said was “It went well,” she said. “They can rule me out of their book and move on to something else.” So SHE'S saying she passed, not LE.

Read More: http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/mi...517-11e1-9c8f-0019bb2963f4.html#ixzz21WDMsq4V

It absolutely stuns me how the publicity hasn't got around over there. If there were 2 little girls missing here it would be all you'd hear, day in, day out. Mind you, we don't have people shooting up movie theatres here either, hogging all the limelight.

Just sad.

 

[GrainneDhu]

On a side note, we mentioned to a restaurant hostess here (mature, not a kid) that we lived near the missing girls from Evansdale, and she looked at me like I was from Mars...no clue what about what I was speaking. That was so disheartening. We're still in Iowa. LE dropped the ball early and often on this case, IMO. We're hoping its all a clever way of tricking the perps into goofing, but given how far the girls could have been transported, if so, before local LE even decided to call for help, is frightening.

SBM

Oh dear.

Are you comfortable giving the town or even just the county you're in? I'll print up some fliers and mail them there if you just give me a hint of where to send'em.

 

[ShyViolet]

Hope I do this right. Transcript also contains info on the time frame of the family search, according to Aunt Tammy.

snipped

We pulled into Meyers Lake, right about where Jim and I are standing. And I got up and just jumped out and started asking random people, Have you seen two little girls, one on a mountain bike, you know, gave the complete descriptions of them. And a man -- they have his name. I don`t know who he is. He said to me, Yes, I seen two little girls going west on the bike trail.

And as you can see, it`s a small lake. It`s not a huge lake. So the bike trail wraps around and then comes back east, and that`s where the bikes were, in fact, found.

snipped


http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/19/ng.01.html

 

[SapphireSteel]

I did specify doing the training at a different location. There are bike trails all over Iowa; the state is in the process of converting abandoned railroad lines into trails. Heck, if he just went up to Cedar Falls and hung out by one of the many bike routes there, he'd get his puppy trained in very little time.

I assume he'd station himself hidden in the woods near where the bikes were found. He'd decide whether or not to loose the puppy by looking down the trail to assess who was coming.

This is assuming he's a predator. If he is, it's important to keep in mind that predators prowl. They're looking for the right opportunity more than any specific victim.

An easy way to get one girl (probably Lyric) to come within arm's length would be to hold onto the handle end of the leash and hand her the leash snap to put on the puppy's collar. Many kids are taught never to allow a stranger to come within arm's length... but putting a leash on a puppy would be a natural, easy way to circumvent that.

Then he has the puppy on lead and Lyric firmly by the arm and all of a sudden, he's not Mr Wonderful Puppy Owner but someone altogether different.

He would just be using a puppy the same way Ted used a fake arm cast in combo with a tire iron or pry bar stashed on the ground under the edge of his car.

I think what is misleading about the highway is that at least one of the map sites (I think it's Bing) has a picture of that section from a few years ago and they happened to get a shot when there was only one car in sight. It made the highway look deceptively low traffic.

There's just too much effort, too many ifs.

If I was going to abduct a kid, I'd just do it. No puppy required.

Just sayn.

Anyway I doubt that's happened here. Aunt Tammy had given both girls some street training, not long before, and taught them stuff if someone ever tried to abduct them.

It's looking more and more like they went willingly.

:moo:

 

[Ollipop]

thanx for the updat ollipop... im sensing that your not convinced that there was a paddle boat involved?

I dunno...given the timeframe, the timeline, and the fact that there apparently were a few ppl out by the lake noticing things, that if a paddleboater were mentioned, and suspicious, that we wouldn't be hearing LE asking 10 days later if anyone knows about one being on the lake. They were ready to drain the lake, ffs, why couldn't they hit every house with lake access? That would literally take all of half a day.

 

[iamnotagolem]

There's just too much effort, too many ifs.

If I was going to abduct a kid, I'd just do it. No puppy required.

Just sayn.

I have a hard time even imagining how (or why) to abduct an 8 & 10 y/o, I am picturing sassy little things that talk nonstop. Or maybe that is just how I imagine my daughter will be at that age.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I have a hard time even imagining how (or why) to abduct an 8 & 10 y/o, I am picturing sassy little things that talk nonstop. Or maybe that is just how I imagine my daughter will be at that age.

Ugh I know.

But we're not pedophiles.

 

[Ollipop]

SBM

Oh dear.

Are you comfortable giving the town or even just the county you're in? I'll print up some fliers and mail them there if you just give me a hint of where to send'em.

Nah, I don't mind. We're in Appanoose County, the restaurant was nowhere near a town. Others in the restaurant knew instantly, I'm sure they've filled her in.

I was just making a point that, due to how this was handled early on, it seems like there are many who just assumed, from the headlines, that two girls drowned in Evansdale at a lake. I forget that other people have daily lives, loved ones, jobs, etc, that keep them from getting completely absorbed in this.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Well, I keep wondering that.

The location where the bikes were found really seems to point to someone with detailed local knowledge.

And the Collins family sounds like they are very social, active in their church, trying to help others whenever they can. Shades of the Smart family? Really good, fine people who accidentally met up with exactly the wrong person.

All this brouhaha about Lyric's parents would probably make such a perp smile and relax.

I suppose a stalker could have followed Lyric from where she lives in Waterloo but it seems like there would be easier opportunities to grab Lyric alone when she was in her own neighbourhood. She's old enough for many perfectly good parents to think it would be okay to let her play outside close to home alone.

Plus, Lyric hadn't been going to Elizabeth's house all summer; she'd only started doing that 5 days before she disappeared. Not enough time, I would think, for a stalker to have sussed out that one spot that would make an easy place to grab someone (child or adult).

Lyric had lived there too for a long time. She lived with Aunt Heather while her mom was in prison for 4+ years.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I dunno...given the timeframe, the timeline, and the fact that there apparently were a few ppl out by the lake noticing things, that if a paddleboater were mentioned, and suspicious, that we wouldn't be hearing LE asking 10 days later if anyone knows about one being on the lake. They were ready to drain the lake, ffs, why couldn't they hit every house with lake access? That would literally take all of half a day.

They probably did.

I'm not all that happy with the carp LE are getting here. Can you imagine the enormous task they are faced with? It would be common sense to assume they were in the lake first off, then work your way outwards...the sheer scope is mind boggling.

Add in a couple of dodgy/inaccurate tips, like Mr Gamerbinger's 12.20, and straight away you've got a muddle to untangle, at the same time.

LE were also going through the town trash, no one seems to know that, as well as checking all the RSO's. Don't forget things like budgets and overtime also come into this...mundane accountants whingeing that they are spending too much town money.

They called in the FBI themselves quite quickly when they realised they were out of their depth. I don't think they were prepared to let the FBI take over the entire thing the way they seem to have done, however.

 

[Paulette]

So, Mr Gamerbinger takes a bike ride around noon on the bike path. He has to swerve to avoid the 2 bikes left on the path. He goes to the public restroom & calls his daughter at 12:27. During his entire bike ride on the bike path he doesn't see the girls. How could they have been missing at 12:15? Isn't the time off? His timed phone call is the only actual time recorded. Right? Is there another time, like CCTV captures of the girls?

 

[JaimeInLA]

Ok well first of all, if I have spelt Mr Gamerbinger's name wrong please correct me because it's unintentional.

I honestly thought that was his name too. Gamerdinger is even worse! (better?) Poor guy. He just wanted to get the information to the authorities and now he's the star of a fictional novel. ;-) Ok ladies, I'm getting punchy, off to bed....

 

[JaimeInLA]

Hope I do this right. Transcript also contains info on the time frame of the family search, according to Aunt Tammy.

snipped

We pulled into Meyers Lake, right about where Jim and I are standing. And I got up and just jumped out and started asking random people, Have you seen two little girls, one on a mountain bike, you know, gave the complete descriptions of them. And a man -- they have his name. I don`t know who he is. He said to me, Yes, I seen two little girls going west on the bike trail.

And as you can see, it`s a small lake. It`s not a huge lake. So the bike trail wraps around and then comes back east, and that`s where the bikes were, in fact, found.

snipped


http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/19/ng.01.html

The man said "LITTLE girls?" I wouldn't call Lyric and Elizabeth little. To me, little means 4 or 5. Lyric is a tween and weighs as much as most adult women. Elizabeth is smaller, but I still wouldn't call an eight year old little. Maybe he saw different girls.

 

[Ollipop]

They probably did.

I'm not all that happy with the carp LE are getting here. Can you imagine the enormous task they are faced with? It would be common sense to assume they were in the lake first off, then work your way outwards...the sheer scope is mind boggling.

Add in a couple of dodgy/inaccurate tips, like Mr Gamerbinger's 12.20, and straight away you've got a muddle to untangle, at the same time.

LE were also going through the town trash, no one seems to know that, as well as checking all the RSO's. Don't forget things like budgets and overtime also come into this...mundane accountants whingeing that they are spending too much town money.

They called in the FBI themselves quite quickly when they realised they were out of their depth. I don't think they were prepared to let the FBI take over the entire thing the way they seem to have done, however.

Respectfully, I live within sight of the lake (the houses directly across the street from me have lake access), I walk the lake 2-3 times/week, often with my kids. I was there Fri night, Sat, and several times since snapping pics, observing LE, etc. I have never been approached by LE. My home has not been visited. I am the only one who's looked in my garage. Very early on, like Friday, the family and friends were saying they thought it was an abduction. These were the people who knew the girls best, knew that swimming in that lake was incredibly unlikely for these girls, knew that if they'd "run away" that they would have been found in hours, etc.

I'm not saying LE is incompetent, I'm not saying they're doing the best they can. What I AM saying is that, early on - as in days 1, 2, and 3, they seemed content to let ppl believe these girls were in the lake. Sometimes I wonder if them saying that they believe the girls are still in the area is just to justify that early response. But then, ultimately, I trust and have faith in my local LE, the FBI, etc, so I let those ideas slip away from my mind. Their level of dedication is not lost on me, I just think they had the blinders too tight too early.

 

[GrainneDhu]

There's just too much effort, too many ifs.

If I was going to abduct a kid, I'd just do it. No puppy required.

Just sayn.

Anyway I doubt that's happened here. Aunt Tammy had given both girls some street training, not long before, and taught them stuff if someone ever tried to abduct them.

It's looking more and more like they went willingly.

:moo:

I agree that it's not the most likely scenario but it would work better than some of the abduction attempts I've been reading about.

As for Aunt TB's "stranger danger" instruction... maybe.

There's plenty of evidence that kids who have received extensive "stranger danger" training are incredibly easy to fool. There's also evidence that many victims (not just children) freeze up and become compliant as soon as they are accosted.

I don't know of any way to predict in advance who will react by taking action and who will freeze up. If there were some way to figure it out, I am absolutely certain the military would love to find out about it. Estimates are that only about 10% of soldiers on the field of battle shoot to kill. The vast majority do not want to kill another human being even though their own lives are in danger.

And that's after a lot more training than Aunt TB could possibly have given the girls.

For a real life example, here's the cctv tape of Carly Brucia, 11 years old, being abducted:

Carlie Brucia Abduction - YouTube

Carly's family was certain that their child knew to fight, knew not to go anywhere with a stranger, etc. But as you can see on the tape, she definitely didn't look happy but she went right along with Joseph P Smith when he grabbed her arm and led her away.

That is by far not the only example I've read of but it's the one with the clearest videotape of the encounter.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I have a hard time even imagining how (or why) to abduct an 8 & 10 y/o, I am picturing sassy little things that talk nonstop. Or maybe that is just how I imagine my daughter will be at that age.

Get a firm grip on the arm of one, prick her neck with an ice pick or box cutter and the other one will most likely fall right into line. Even adults can have problems with the sight of unexpected blood, let alone a child.

If they struggle, let them go and beat feet outta there. Which is exactly what the other attempted abductors this summer did when they failed.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Lyric had lived there too for a long time. She lived with Aunt Heather while her mom was in prison for 4+ years.

Respectfully, can you provide a link for MC's actual time in prison?

I seem to recall that she was sentenced to 4 years, served one year in prison and then 6 months in a halfway house.

So Lyric moved out of the Collins house sometime in 2006.

 

[Ollipop]

To add to my previous post....

I've called the tipline 3 times now, and 2 of those left me with the feeling I was being blown off. One of those was after they said in a press conference that no tip was too insignificant.

And regarding press conferences: yes, I understand they generate needed publicity, yes I understand they may be geared more towards the perp or the public than trying to be helpful. But, as a father of two children who know that area intimately, when I see repeated press conferences called to tell me, my neighbors, and my kids that they don't know any more than they did at the last press conference, or to see them deflect, dodge, act ignorant, etc, to things I have read in the MSM, or to get snarky when asked the same question repeatedly, then yes, my confidence gets shaken.


Prolly too much sun...I'm punchy now, too. Sorry if I sound abrasive, more like frustrated. Any/all help is appreciated in solving this mystery and getting these girls home.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Ahhh, this seems all too scripted & staged...and one who may or may not be on drugs is leading the way...jmo

Strange or not, FBI & LE have that number...I would bet on it.

Now for that Swan peddle boat...I saw one with a tent on it!! It's mine...

 

[FrayedKnot]

Seems to me that the prime reason for a 10 year old to have a cell phone would be for safety/emergency when out alone. It makes no sense that she would have left it behind.

My 10-year-old has a cell phone and usually leaves in lying around in her room. I have to remind her to keep it charged and to pack it when she goes to her dad's.

The whole reason she has the phone is for "goodnight" calls from one parent when she is at the other parent's home, though. Since most of her friends don't have phones, it's not an item she uses a great deal.