IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #6

[SapphireSteel]

I honestly thought that was his name too. Gamerdinger is even worse! (better?) Poor guy. He just wanted to get the information to the authorities and now he's the star of a fictional novel. ;-) Ok ladies, I'm getting punchy, off to bed....

Oh it's Gamer Dinger???? LOL I must've autocorrected in my head...!

Edward Gamerdinger...or maybe Edwin Gamerdinger...Ted for short.

Either way, he may well be the key to solving this case. In a good way.

I hope.

:rocker:

 

[nightowl]

Wait a minute. When you combine the Gamerbinger / PBG theory (Gamerbinger said he saw Paddle Boat Guy) with the WEIRD line of questioning/denials about Gamerbinger at the press conference today -- hmmmm.... I am going somewhere I am not allowed to go. ARGH!!!

I mean, Abben said THREE times today, "huh? what guy? some guy saw bikes at 12:20? Weird. Hadn't heard that." And he said that once on Friday too. You'd think between Friday and today someone would have filled him in. He was obviously bluffing. I mean, I'm just a mom of a 9-year old girl sitting in my living room in California, and even I was yelling out, GAMERBINGER!!!!!!!! He HAS to know.

I now have a feeling that his evasiveness about GamerBinger DOES have something to do with seeking the mystery circular Paddle Boat Guy!

It makes sense that LE would want to look closely at this Gamerbing guy witness, since this witness puts himself at the scene of the evidence (bikes on the trail) within minutes of the time that the girls' whereabouts are no longer accounted for.

 

[iamnotagolem]

To add to my previous post....

I've called the tipline 3 times now, and 2 of those left me with the feeling I was being blown off. One of those was after they said in a press conference that no tip was too insignificant.

And regarding press conferences: yes, I understand they generate needed publicity, yes I understand they may be geared more towards the perp or the public than trying to be helpful. But, as a father of two children who know that area intimately, when I see repeated press conferences called to tell me, my neighbors, and my kids that they don't know any more than they did at the last press conference, or to see them deflect, dodge, act ignorant, etc, to things I have read in the MSM, or to get snarky when asked the same question repeatedly, then yes, my confidence gets shaken.


Prolly too much sun...I'm punchy now, too. Sorry if I sound abrasive, more like frustrated. Any/all help is appreciated in solving this mystery and getting these girls home.

It might be the tip line operator? I had the same experience when a local girl went missing, I called in to report that I had seen her and they acted like I was bothering them. I was just so happy to see that she was still alive, I couldn't believe they didn't want more info from me or have an officer call me.

 

[CHERIE.T]

It seems like these sweet girls have been missing for a long time.
I keep praying each day for a thread here announcing they are home safe and sound.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Respectfully, can you provide a link for MC's actual time in prison?

I seem to recall that she was sentenced to 4 years, served one year in prison and then 6 months in a halfway house.

So Lyric moved out of the Collins house sometime in 2006.

You might be right that she didn't serve the entire 4 years. It isn't clear from this:

Cook-Morrissey in 2003 was sentenced to four years in federal prison on drug charges that involved conspiracy to cook methamphetamine, court records show. After violating her supervised release, a federal version of parole, Cook-Morrissey was sentenced to five more months in federal custody. She was released in May.

But I do know that she just got released from Federal Custody on May 30, so Lyric was living with Aunt Heather as recently as 3 months ago.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...n-missing-Iowa-girls-families-law-enforcement

 

[iamnotagolem]

The man said "LITTLE girls?" I wouldn't call Lyric and Elizabeth little. To me, little means 4 or 5. Lyric is a tween and weighs as much as most adult women. Elizabeth is smaller, but I still wouldn't call an eight year old little. Maybe he saw different girls.

I think it is all relative. I have even called 16-18 year olds little girls, just depends on the context. I wouldn't hesitate to call 8-10 year olds little girls. I would think men would probably be more inclined to say little girls, because they are quite young and much smaller than men.

 

[GrainneDhu]

So, Mr Gamerbinger takes a bike ride around noon on the bike path. He has to swerve to avoid the 2 bikes left on the path. He goes to the public restroom & calls his daughter at 12:27. During his entire bike ride on the bike path he doesn't see the girls. How could they have been missing at 12:15? Isn't the time off? His timed phone call is the only actual time recorded. Right? Is there another time, like CCTV captures of the girls?

Yes, they were caught on a security camera behind the Big And Tall shop that stands across the road from Elizabeth's house. While LE hasn't said that they've checked to make sure the clock on the camera is accurate, I tend to think that LE did that sort of fundamental checking and corrected for time if necessary.

If the camer was accurate or if LE compensated for a known inaccuracy, the time they were caught on tape was 12:15 pm.

If TG, the witness on the bicycle, is correct in his estimate of time, then it's impossible for the girls to have been there at that time.

However... do we know that TG's cell phone has the correct time? Someone posted here that her cell phone and her husband's cell phone differed by about 10 minutes.

Do we know that the bikes TG saw lying in the path actually belonged to Elizabeth and Lyric? If that is known, LE hasn't let on.

Are we absolutely sure of TG's estimate of the time it took for him to ride to the convenience store (about 1 minute, according to Ollipop, a verified local) and phone his daughter? According to the one source I consulted, men average 30 seconds in using a public restroom:

http://www.publicrestrooms.com/

That leaves 5 minutes unexplained (and I'm not sure I really want an explanation, considering the topic).

As a totally unscientific benchmark, I asked my husband how fast he could run 1.5 miles when he was in track in high school. This may be more relevant if I mention that he is 5'0". He said that his personal best at that distance was 7 minutes 02 seconds but he could reliably do it in 7 minutes 30 seconds.

I figure that 8 and 10 year olds could probably beat a short high school boy on foot if they were on bicycles and properly motivated, either by racing or the excitement of sneakily putting one over on Grandma.

In short, there may or may not be enough wiggle room in the conditions specified to make it possible that TG saw Elizabeth's and Lyric's bicycles.

Without more information, it's difficult to say one way or the other.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Yes, they were caught on a security camera behind the Big And Tall shop that stands across the road from Elizabeth's house. While LE hasn't said that they've checked to make sure the clock on the camera is accurate, I tend to think that LE did that sort of fundamental checking and corrected for time if necessary.

If the camer was accurate or if LE compensated for a known inaccuracy, the time they were caught on tape was 12:15 pm.

If TG, the witness on the bicycle, is correct in his estimate of time, then it's impossible for the girls to have been there at that time.

However... do we know that TG's cell phone has the correct time? Someone posted here that her cell phone and her husband's cell phone differed by about 10 minutes.

Do we know that the bikes TG saw lying in the path actually belonged to Elizabeth and Lyric? If that is known, LE hasn't let on.

Are we absolutely sure of TG's estimate of the time it took for him to ride to the convenience store (about 1 minute, according to Ollipop, a verified local) and phone his daughter? According to the one source I consulted, men average 30 seconds in using a public restroom:

http://www.publicrestrooms.com/

That leaves 5 minutes unexplained (and I'm not sure I really want an explanation, considering the topic).

As a totally unscientific benchmark, I asked my husband how fast he could run 1.5 miles when he was in track in high school. This may be more relevant if I mention that he is 5'0". He said that his personal best at that distance was 7 minutes 02 seconds but he could reliably do it in 7 minutes 30 seconds.

I figure that 8 and 10 year olds could probably beat a short high school boy on foot if they were on bicycles and properly motivated, either by racing or the excitement of sneakily putting one over on Grandma.

In short, there may or may not be enough wiggle room in the conditions specified to make it possible that TG saw Elizabeth's and Lyric's bicycles.

Without more information, it's difficult to say one way or the other.

Just jumping off of your post, I agree with what you've posted. Say the girls did bike directly there after being seen on video. Then TG saw their dumped bikes, where were the girls? How did he not cross paths with them if he came across their bikes.

 

[GrainneDhu]

You might be right that she didn't serve the entire 4 years. It isn't clear from this:

Cook-Morrissey in 2003 was sentenced to four years in federal prison on drug charges that involved conspiracy to cook methamphetamine, court records show. After violating her supervised release, a federal version of parole, Cook-Morrissey was sentenced to five more months in federal custody. She was released in May.

But I do know that she just got released from Federal Custody on May 30, so Lyric was living with Aunt Heather as recently as 3 months ago.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...n-missing-Iowa-girls-families-law-enforcement

You may well be right.

I can't check the Register any more since I've hit the monthly limit for free articles.

I seem to recall that in either the first or second thread of this case, someone checked court documents that seemed to indicate that grandmother Wylma Cook was given legal custody of Lyric in 2007 and there has been no further legal action.

That doesn't mean, of course, that the two families may not have allowed Lyric to live with the Collins family informally.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Yes, they were caught on a security camera behind the Big And Tall shop that stands across the road from Elizabeth's house. While LE hasn't said that they've checked to make sure the clock on the camera is accurate, I tend to think that LE did that sort of fundamental checking and corrected for time if necessary.

If the camer was accurate or if LE compensated for a known inaccuracy, the time they were caught on tape was 12:15 pm.

If TG, the witness on the bicycle, is correct in his estimate of time, then it's impossible for the girls to have been there at that time.

However... do we know that TG's cell phone has the correct time? Someone posted here that her cell phone and her husband's cell phone differed by about 10 minutes.

Do we know that the bikes TG saw lying in the path actually belonged to Elizabeth and Lyric? If that is known, LE hasn't let on.

Are we absolutely sure of TG's estimate of the time it took for him to ride to the convenience store (about 1 minute, according to Ollipop, a verified local) and phone his daughter? According to the one source I consulted, men average 30 seconds in using a public restroom:

http://www.publicrestrooms.com/

That leaves 5 minutes unexplained (and I'm not sure I really want an explanation, considering the topic).

As a totally unscientific benchmark, I asked my husband how fast he could run 1.5 miles when he was in track in high school. This may be more relevant if I mention that he is 5'0". He said that his personal best at that distance was 7 minutes 02 seconds but he could reliably do it in 7 minutes 30 seconds.

I figure that 8 and 10 year olds could probably beat a short high school boy on foot if they were on bicycles and properly motivated, either by racing or the excitement of sneakily putting one over on Grandma.

In short, there may or may not be enough wiggle room in the conditions specified to make it possible that TG saw Elizabeth's and Lyric's bicycles.

Without more information, it's difficult to say one way or the other.

Excellent post.

I tell ya, with each passing day, I'm questioning things more.
I'm not sure the girls were seen on the bikes in the park.
On the surv. Vid yes, but seen actually in the park? I don't know.
The bikes obviously were found , along with the purse but the girls?
Could they have been approached near the entrance , threatened and coerced to get in a car? Is the eye witness telling the truth?
Imoo

 

[GrainneDhu]

Just jumping off of your post, I agree with what you've posted. Say the girls did bike directly there after being seen on video. Then TG saw their dumped bikes, where were the girls? How did he not cross paths with them if he came across their bikes.

Somewhere in the wooded area just beyond the area where the bikes were found. There's a lot of underbrush there, so it would tend to hide people fairly quickly.

Ollipop discovered that there is a sort of trail hidden back there that is not visible from the bike trail. He said there was a bend of about 70 degrees in it, so a vehicle pulled (or backed) beyond the bend would not be visible from Arbutus Avenue. He said that even though he's very familiar with the lake area, he didn't find that trail until he went hunting for it.

See Bing maps for the area marked "Maiden Lane."

I am haunted by the thought that the girls may have only been 50 or 60 feet from TG when he bicycled past.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Somewhere in the wooded area just beyond the area where the bikes were found. There's a lot of underbrush there, so it would tend to hide people fairly quickly.

Ollipop discovered that there is a sort of trail hidden back there that is not visible from the bike trail. He said there was a bend of about 70 degrees in it, so a vehicle pulled (or backed) beyond the bend would not be visible from Arbutus Avenue. He said that even though he's very familiar with the lake area, he didn't find that trail until he went hunting for it.

See Bing maps for the area marked "Maiden Lane."

I am haunted by the thought that the girls may have only been 50 or 60 feet from TG when he bicycled past.

That makes sense. I even wondered if the girls hid, especially if they weren't supposed to be there.

 

[cluciano63]

It does seem that the girls must have lured in some way, or knew the person(s). Lyric, even if her weight was printed inaccurately, might appear at a distance to be an adult or at least a much older teen. She is larger than I am, anyway, so it doesn't seem as likely that a pervert would see the girls from a distance and assume they are two little young children, rather than, say, a mother and daughter or a child and a babysitter. Also, would be at least a little more difficult to simply "grab" them and make a run for it, not just due to size but now there are two of them.

I am just thinking that this was someone they knew, or at least were familiar with, someone who knew they their true ages.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Maybe even someone who knew they often rode that route nearly daily.

 

[pearl]

The discussion about whether or not the man who saw the 2 bikes on the trail at 12:20 is correct on his time brought a question to my mind. Do they know if other kids were on that trail during the time frame of 12:15 and say 1:00? He could have seen 2 bikes that belonged to children other than Lyric and Elizabeth. Also a thought on a paddle boat. There are some on a big pond at a state park near my house. Some are regular paddle boats and some are shaped like swans. I don't think 3 people could fit in a paddle boat.

 

[iamnotagolem]

The discussion about whether or not the man who saw the 2 bikes on the trail at 12:20 is correct on his time brought a question to my mind. Do they know if other kids were on that trail during the time frame of 12:15 and say 1:00? He could have seen 2 bikes that belonged to children other than Lyric and Elizabeth. Also a thought on a paddle boat. There are some on a big pond at a state park near my house. Some are regular paddle boats and some are shaped like swans. I don't think 3 people could fit in a paddle boat.

It must depend on the type of paddle boat. Ours had 4 seats and you could get a 5th person if they sat in the middle.

Not that I'm confident in Mr Paddle Boat's existence.

 

[AndiLA]

Now I've got an image of some random guy sitting alone in a bird-shaped paddle boat, peddling a mile a minute, but just going around in circles.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Now I've got an image of some random guy sitting alone in a bird-shaped paddle boat, peddling a mile a minute, but just going around in circles.

Lololol that's funny AndiLA.

 

[ozazure]

*snipped for space*
Carly's family was certain that their child knew to fight, knew not to go anywhere with a stranger, etc. But as you can see on the tape, she definitely didn't look happy but she went right along with Joseph P Smith when he grabbed her arm and led her away.

That is by far not the only example I've read of but it's the one with the clearest videotape of the encounter.

Thank you for posting that. I know we can't teach our kids to act to protect themselves but I showed it to my daughter anyway so she can see how easily it can happen and how quickly you have to act to have a chance. And try to balance that message with it not being the victims fault if they are overpowered or taken to by surprise ... I would hate if something horrific ever happened that my kids would think for a second they had failed.

I hope the FBI are right and the girls are back home safe asap.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Somewhere in the wooded area just beyond the area where the bikes were found. There's a lot of underbrush there, so it would tend to hide people fairly quickly.

Ollipop discovered that there is a sort of trail hidden back there that is not visible from the bike trail. He said there was a bend of about 70 degrees in it, so a vehicle pulled (or backed) beyond the bend would not be visible from Arbutus Avenue. He said that even though he's very familiar with the lake area, he didn't find that trail until he went hunting for it.

See Bing maps for the area marked "Maiden Lane."

I am haunted by the thought that the girls may have only been 50 or 60 feet from TG when he bicycled past.

I saw it on the maps searching too but have been sick...pneumonia sick better some now. I think that's what Tammy was calling the "400 acre" area too in her interview the other day.