IA IA - Elizabeth Collins & Lyric Cook - Found Deceased - Evansdale - 13 Jul 2012 #39

[imstilla.grandma]

“Evansdale, you know, the community, they’re their girls. They’re not just ours. They’re their girls also, and they want to see justice just as much as we do,” Heather Collins, Elizabeth’s mother, said.

“There’s a lot of people that are praying for justice and praying for our family,” Kelly Davis, Elizabeth’s aunt, said.

The ride benefits the Elizabeth Collins Foundation, which helps the families of missing individuals and educates the community on how to prevent abduction, sexual abuse, and trafficking. Family members of the girls said the Ride and Drive has grown each year.

11th annual Ride and Drive keeps awareness on Evansdale cousins cold case

Hundreds of motorcycles took to the streets of Evansdale for the 11th annual memorial ride in honor of two cousins from Evansdale who went missing in 2012.

www.kcrg.com

 

[watcher9]

Just posted. Some of the details discussed were new to me. Especially in regard to Michael Klunder... wow!

Lyric R. Cook-Morrisey 10 and Elizabeth Collins 8 Double Homicide - Drew Collins Guest

Lyric Cook-Morrisey 10 and Elizabeth Collins 8 Double Homicide - Drew Collins Guest#truecrime #truecrimeyoutubers #truecrimepodcasts #lyricandelizabeth #eva...

www.youtube.com

For those interested, here is our Michael Klunder's thread.

IA - IA - KLUNDER, Michael J: Violent Sexual Offender, Murderer, and Suspected SK

Tunnel vision? :waitasec: I would say LE have investigated where the evidence took them. The family are free and uncharged, so I don't know how you can say that the Evansdale Police Department, the BHCSO, the DCI and the FBI have all got tunnel vision. They know things we don't, after all...

www.websleuths.com

 

[watcher9]

With the arrest of Richard Allen for the Delphi murders of Libby & Abby, many are still wondering if there is a connection to the murders of Elizabeth & Lyric - as well as other unsolved murders/crimes in the area over several decades.

RA’s daughter graduated High School in 2013 so it is quite possible that the family was looking at colleges over the Summer of 2012. Does anyone know if he may have been in the Evansdale area for this purpose at the time of the murders?

Another case that raises my suspicion is Jorden Sopher. Jorden (18 y/o) disappeared from Wabash, IN in May 2006 and her remains were found in a wooded area in Peru, IN in may 2009. At the time of Jorden’s disappearance, RA was living in Mexico, IN which is 17 mi from Wabash. Peru lies between the two towns, slightly south, and is only 5.6 mi from Mexico.

I wasn't able to find a WS thread on Jorden Sopher's case. Do you have a link?

 

[watcher9]

Answering my own post.
I did another search for Jorden Sopher and found a new WS thead was just set up because of an investigation for a possible connection to Delphi case. Ii has a link to an article about her case with her photo. Uncanny resemblance to both Delphi and Evansdale cases.

IN - Jorden Aryne Sopher, 18, Wabash, 23 May 2006

The case came in the discussion in the Delphi Murders thread with an article from The US Sun. https://www.the-sun.com/news/7415823/delphi-murders-richard-allen-cold-case-missing-jorden-sopher/ Her remains were found almost 3 years later in 2009 per The Charley Project: Jorden Aryne Sopher –...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Kell1]

Klunder would've been a great suspect in Evansdale, but he was cleared when an alibi checked out on the day in question, not much information was ever released as to why, but LE feels it was solid.

Transportation of victims a great distance from where initial contact is made is more stereotypical in terms of Child murders where abduction takes place.

These events are largely unplanned and the victim(s) are usually victims of opportunity.

With what little info we know we have to base it on the evidence vs statistics, which tends to lean more toward this individual being a local to Evansdale, he may have even known the victims in some capacity, this individual however was most likely very familiar with the area where the girls were recovered , which is also most likely where the murders took place.

He would seem odd to those around him, few friends , what we term a "Social Marginal" most likely lives with parents or another relative acting in a parental role.

Job types are usually unskilled or semi skilled labor types usually within the construction industry.

They generally have a history of frequently relocating, often as a result of other sexual crimes they commit , and usually have moved to the area in question within 12 months prior to the murder. And wouldn't be beyond suddenly leaving the area post offense with little to no explanation.

There would most likely be a good amount of post offensive behavioral queues that would be noticeable as well.

Between the time they went missing and the time they were found, i would implore ANYONE who saw someone in the area of where they were recovered, as immaterial as it may seem to come forward, as an overwhelming majority of these types return to the victims bodies multiple times up until they are recovered.

With what little we know its hard to put a fine point on it but these are the general characteristics of these type of cases, but I will state i believe its very solvable still

 

[SharonNeedles]

Klunder would've been a great suspect in Evansdale, but he was cleared when an alibi checked out on the day in question, not much information was ever released as to why, but LE feels it was solid.

I gotta admit, I'm not convinced. There's too much coincidence, my gut tells me he's got to be involved.

 

[Emerald1328]

Klunder would've been a great suspect in Evansdale, but he was cleared when an alibi checked out on the day in question, not much information was ever released as to why, but LE feels it was solid.

Transportation of victims a great distance from where initial contact is made is more stereotypical in terms of Child murders where abduction takes place.

These events are largely unplanned and the victim(s) are usually victims of opportunity.

With what little info we know we have to base it on the evidence vs statistics, which tends to lean more toward this individual being a local to Evansdale, he may have even known the victims in some capacity, this individual however was most likely very familiar with the area where the girls were recovered , which is also most likely where the murders took place.

He would seem odd to those around him, few friends , what we term a "Social Marginal" most likely lives with parents or another relative acting in a parental role.

Job types are usually unskilled or semi skilled labor types usually within the construction industry.

They generally have a history of frequently relocating, often as a result of other sexual crimes they commit , and usually have moved to the area in question within 12 months prior to the murder. And wouldn't be beyond suddenly leaving the area post offense with little to no explanation.

There would most likely be a good amount of post offensive behavioral queues that would be noticeable as well.

Between the time they went missing and the time they were found, i would implore ANYONE who saw someone in the area of where they were recovered, as immaterial as it may seem to come forward, as an overwhelming majority of these types return to the victims bodies multiple times up until they are recovered.

With what little we know its hard to put a fine point on it but these are the general characteristics of these type of cases, but I will state i believe its very solvable still

I still have my eye on Jeff Altmayer.

A stranger with $100 bills: How an Iowa man tried to kidnap at least 19 kids across the state

In the span of five months, one man tried to entice at least 19 Iowa kids and sexually abused two of them, according to state investigators.

www.desmoinesregister.com

Edit: just in case anyone wanted to look back, we discussed him for a few pages, a couple of threads ago, starting with this post.

Post in thread 'IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37'
Found Deceased - IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37

 

[Kell1]

I gotta admit, I'm not convinced. There's too much coincidence, my gut tells me he's got to be involved.

I dont blame you, he was a serial offender, kidnapped multiple victims on 2 different occasions , and had a sexual penchant for young girls. But again LE said he was "ruled out" as a suspect , that usually means they can physically put him somewhere , such as at work under the watch of someone , at the time of the crime.

 

[Kell1]

I still have my eye on Jeff Altmayer.

A stranger with $100 bills: How an Iowa man tried to kidnap at least 19 kids across the state

In the span of five months, one man tried to entice at least 19 Iowa kids and sexually abused two of them, according to state investigators.

www.desmoinesregister.com

Edit: just in case anyone wanted to look back, we discussed him for a few pages, a couple of threads ago, starting with this post.

Post in thread 'IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37'
Found Deceased - IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37

Certainly possible, if LE would release, a little more about the crime scene it could be narrowed down a little more

 

[Emerald1328]

Certainly possible, if LE would release, a little more about the crime scene it could be narrowed down a little more

Agree. As law enforcement, I’d love your opinion on something that has always nagged at me but I may be reading too much into it. Every article about him of course mentions Elizabeth and Lyric, and every article says he has been looked into for their case. However, I have never seen an article that says he has been cleared or not after making that statement. It’s always “He has been looked into” and then nothing else. They’ve specifically cleared Klunder but have never (at least as far as I’ve seen) said they have cleared Altmayer. Am I reading too much into that, or do they not have enough evidence to clear him yet?

 

[Emerald1328]

Agree. As law enforcement, I’d love your opinion on something that has always nagged at me but I may be reading too much into it. Every article about him of course mentions Elizabeth and Lyric, and every article says he has been looked into for their case. However, I have never seen an article that says he has been cleared or not after making that statement. It’s always “He has been looked into” and then nothing else. They’ve specifically cleared Klunder but have never (at least as far as I’ve seen) said they have cleared Altmayer. Am I reading too much into that, or do they not have enough evidence to clear him yet?

@Kell1 I also found this from an article in 2017 but everything since then hasn’t said if he was cleared or if he is even still being looked into.

“When asked about Jeff Lee Altmayer, an Ankeny man who is in jail on suspicion of enticing children with the intent to commit sex abuse, Roehrkasse said, “Most I’ll say about him is he’s a lead. ... He’s somebody we’re definitely keeping an eye on.””

The pain of 2 Iowa girls' killings remains, but resolve in Evansdale only grows

Lyric and Elizabeth were abducted and slain five years ago. For relatives, police and the rest of the community, the trauma is still fresh.

www.desmoinesregister.com

 

[Kell1]

Agree. As law enforcement, I’d love your opinion on something that has always nagged at me but I may be reading too much into it. Every article about him of course mentions Elizabeth and Lyric, and every article says he has been looked into for their case. However, I have never seen an article that says he has been cleared or not after making that statement. It’s always “He has been looked into” and then nothing else. They’ve specifically cleared Klunder but have never (at least as far as I’ve seen) said they have cleared Altmayer. Am I reading too much into that, or do they not have enough evidence to clear him yet?

No youre not reading into it too far, honestly its not like we have a lot to go on to begin with , and that little tidbit you noticed,... theres probably a reason for it , but sometimes, its not what we think, sometimes, theres just no evidence to link it to the crime in question.

What you can read is what info has been released in the Evansdale case itself, but look at it from different angles.

First thing to remember is to never try to link cases without actual case info , linkage analysis are usually done afterwards , even profilers when they render a profile do not use a suspect list , because invariably you start to make the crimes, fit the individuals .

That works opposite the retro-classification procedure they use.

So from what little we know and what the FBI has released, we can get an idea of the type of offender

The FBI worked with local LE in the case, and they tend to feel along the same lines as I do .... they feel the individual responsible is a local, this was crime of opportunity as most of these are, offender familiarity with body recovery area, most likely a history of sex offenses, may have even known the girls or their families even as an acquaintance .

They are usually between the ages of 26-36 which makes Altmayer a little old for this particular crime, but that can change on several factors especially time incarcerated.

Given what the FBI has released, on this case, i feel that the individual they are dealing with is not a serial killer (yet), though he is at a very high risk of re-offending , if he hasnt already.

 

[Kell1]

Oh and one more thing

Just because LE rules someone out .... Doesnt mean they aren't involved , sometimes we get it wrong too

Keep digging !

 

[Emerald1328]

No youre not reading into it too far, honestly its not like we have a lot to go on to begin with , and that little tidbit you noticed,... theres probably a reason for it , but sometimes, its not what we think, sometimes, theres just no evidence to link it to the crime in question.

What you can read is what info has been released in the Evansdale case itself, but look at it from different angles.

First thing to remember is to never try to link cases without actual case info , linkage analysis are usually done afterwards , even profilers when they render a profile do not use a suspect list , because invariably you start to make the crimes, fit the individuals .

That works opposite the retro-classification procedure they use.

So from what little we know and what the FBI has released, we can get an idea of the type of offender

The FBI worked with local LE in the case, and they tend to feel along the same lines as I do .... they feel the individual responsible is a local, this was crime of opportunity as most of these are, offender familiarity with body recovery area, most likely a history of sex offenses, may have even known the girls or their families even as an acquaintance .

They are usually between the ages of 26-36 which makes Altmayer a little old for this particular crime, but that can change on several factors especially time incarcerated.

Given what the FBI has released, on this case, i feel that the individual they are dealing with is not a serial killer (yet), though he is at a very high risk of re-offending , if he hasnt already.

Fabulous info, thank you! I agree with a lot of your assessment on who the offender could be, especially someone local-ish, or who was once a local. I am in no way disparaging LE but it’s just so crazy to me that the case hasn’t been solved in 11 years, especially if it is local since the population of current and former residents would be lower than a big city.

I know it took a long time to arrest Richard Allen for Delphi and he was right under their noses (if guilty) but it was still only 5 years, compared to 11 here.

My honest opinion is that this will not be solved. I hope I’m wrong!

 

[watcher9]

For the longest time, it seemed that the main focus seemed to be placed on the parents and their shortcomings rather than looking at outsiders and tips that came in (the parked truck, the boxed white vehicle).

 

[Kell1]

Fabulous info, thank you! I agree with a lot of your assessment on who the offender could be, especially someone local-ish, or who was once a local. I am in no way disparaging LE but it’s just so crazy to me that the case hasn’t been solved in 11 years, especially if it is local since the population of current and former residents would be lower than a big city.

I know it took a long time to arrest Richard Allen for Delphi and he was right under their noses (if guilty) but it was still only 5 years, compared to 11 here.

My honest opinion is that this will not be solved. I hope I’m wrong!

Well , first you have to understand that cases like this are rare , and even moreso in smaller communities , which makes it very difficult on smaller police departments that are maybe not used to dealing with these types of cases on a regular basis , especially when the crime catches national attention, the pressure to solve cases, like this can be immense .

I applaud Evansdale PD for bringng in the State police and the FBI o this case, the FBI deals with these cases, regularly,

Cold cases, from 30-40 years, are now being solved with advances, in technology and science, so I will always hold out hope . This case, is very solvable, and ill go one further and ill say that someone in that community knows something , they just arent saying for one reason or another.

I wont comment on the Delphi case, thats a different situation altogether.

But we all hope these cases, get solved, I feel that it will , but it will take some doing

 

[Kell1]

For the longest time, it seemed that the main focus seemed to be placed on the parents and their shortcomings rather than looking at outsiders and tips that came in (the parked truck, the boxed white vehicle).

And that's not wrong, you always start close and work out , you look at the victims first, its referred to as "victimology"

Given the type of abduction theres about a slightly less than 50% chance the killer knew at least one of the victims, even if in passing .

That's why you start close and work out .

When a non familial abduction of a child results in murder, its theres only about 3% difference in the chance that it was a stranger (completely unknown) as opposed to someone known to the victim or their family in some manner.

Victimology assessments in missing persons cases are vital.

 

[Emerald1328]

For the longest time, it seemed that the main focus seemed to be placed on the parents and their shortcomings rather than looking at outsiders and tips that came in (the parked truck, the boxed white vehicle).

I still can’t get over the fact that it took them over a year to ask for information on a vehicle that was seen parked in the area that day. There is no way someone would remember it a year later. I understand they have to keep some things under wraps to protect the investigation, but this one came too late to be effective imo.

Evansdale Cousins Investigation Update: Authorities Seek Information on SUV

Investigators have received witness information that white older-model full-sized SUV-type vehicle, such as a Chevy Suburban, Ford Bronco or similar vehicle, was parked near the lake along Arbutus Street on July 13.

patch.com

 

[Yemelyan]

I still can’t get over the fact that it took them over a year to ask for information on a vehicle that was seen parked in the area that day. There is no way someone would remember it a year later. I understand they have to keep some things under wraps to protect the investigation, but this one came too late to be effective imo.

Evansdale Cousins Investigation Update: Authorities Seek Information on SUV

Investigators have received witness information that white older-model full-sized SUV-type vehicle, such as a Chevy Suburban, Ford Bronco or similar vehicle, was parked near the lake along Arbutus Street on July 13.

patch.com

My memory (could be faulty as I don't follow this case quite as closely as others) was that it wasn't until a year later that they had enough confirming information to say that the vehicle might be pertinent to the investigation. This might not have been exactly how it went but, for example at the time of the crime a witness might have said "I think there could have been a vehicle parked on Arbutus that didn't belong there but I couldn't tell you anything else about it other than it was light-colored" but then a year later through re-interviews and canvassing another two witnesses said "Yes, I also remember that and it was a white older SUV." So then and only then did LE have enough info to bring that forward to the public. We can still debate what LE should have considered "enough" confirmation to release but I think they use a lot of factors to decide this including perceived reliability of the witnesses.

 

[Emerald1328]

My memory (could be faulty as I don't follow this case quite as closely as others) was that it wasn't until a year later that they had enough confirming information to say that the vehicle might be pertinent to the investigation. This might not have been exactly how it went but, for example at the time of the crime a witness might have said "I think there could have been a vehicle parked on Arbutus that didn't belong there but I couldn't tell you anything else about it other than it was light-colored" but then a year later through re-interviews and canvassing another two witnesses said "Yes, I also remember that and it was a white older SUV." So then and only then did LE have enough info to bring that forward to the public. We can still debate what LE should have considered "enough" confirmation to release but I think they use a lot of factors to decide this including perceived reliability of the witnesses.

Yeah, it’s definitely unhelpful for a regular citizen to Monday-morning quarterback, I get that. This is the case that brought me here so I have less objectivity when it comes to this case than most others I follow.