IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, West Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 #4

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JusticeForAll said:
What about Eugene Martin and Marc James Warren-Allen also missing from Des Moines? Doesn't seem more likely a serial pedophile was involved in all the cases?
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Yes, in all likelihood Johnny is deceased at the hands of a serial killer. There's enough evidence to support that. Sadly, I feel really bad for Noreen as it has shown over the years how she has suffered tremendously and I think there's a few people out there that just like to mess with her head.

There has never been any clear / concise evidence that Johnny is alive, I will be my house on it that he won't ever be located alive. IT's really terrible that this case seems to linger on like it does and the poor child cannot rest in peace so to speak.

This is what can happen when murdered children are never located. At times the parents can really go off the deep end drawing themselves into the strangest of conspiracies or whatever in order to hold onto their sanity and maintain any semblance of belief that their child is still alive. :(
 
With all due respect, what facts/links have led you to believe Johnny died at the hands of a serial killer? Because I have read this entire thread, and am unaware of any evidence that has been presented so far that supports this idea.

PattyCake said:
Yes, in all likelihood Johnny is deceased at the hands of a serial killer. There's enough evidence to support that. Sadly, I feel really bad for Noreen as it has shown over the years how she has suffered tremendously and I think there's a few people out there that just like to mess with her head.

There has never been any clear / concise evidence that Johnny is alive, I will be my house on it that he won't ever be located alive. IT's really terrible that this case seems to linger on like it does and the poor child cannot rest in peace so to speak.

This is what can happen when murdered children are never located. At times the parents can really go off the deep end drawing themselves into the strangest of conspiracies or whatever in order to hold onto their sanity and maintain any semblance of belief that their child is still alive. :(
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According to people claiming to be involved in the pedo ring, Johnny was kept alive because he was so much in the media limelight. He was the "Golden Boy" or "Media Boy." Then he ran away and escaped. Neither Eugene Martin nor Marc James-Allen had the same publicity as Johnny, so IF Johnny is alive and IF the others were abducted into the same organization and are dead, then one could justify it in this way.

The only reasons I can think of that would keep a grown man from resurfacing and reconnecting with family are 1) the family had something to do with the abduction (John Leonard Gosch?), or 2) the now grown man has had done some pretty bad things that are against the law, and stepping forward might cause him to have to answer to those bad things. What else could keep a 40-something man from stepping forward and saying, "Hey. I'm John Gosch, and this is what happened to me when I was 12."
 
Everything that I have read indicates that he is still alive- at least 3 eyewitnesses in the last few years.

I do think that at the very least he may have been forced to abduct others, in fact Jimmy claims that Johnny was in the van that abducted him after Johnny asked him if he wanted to hang out. Of course John would have been underage and under duress at the time.

At what age and circumstances should John Gosch be held accountable if he did commit a crime? There were those in the media who attacked S.H. after his years of captivity by saying that he probably stayed with his abductor because he could play video games and not go to school.

I wonder how long it would take some to demonize a nearly 40 "Johnny" if he were to come out of hiding now.
 
surelock said:
Everything that I have read indicates that he is still alive- at least 3 eyewitnesses in the last few years.

I do think that at the very least he may have been forced to abduct others, in fact Jimmy claims that Johnny was in the van that abducted him after Johnny asked him if he wanted to hang out. Of course John would have been underage and under duress at the time.

At what age and circumstances should John Gosch be held accountable if he did commit a crime? There were those in the media who attacked S.H. after his years of captivity by saying that he probably stayed with his abductor because he could play video games and not go to school.

I wonder how long it would take some to demonize a nearly 40 "Johnny" if he were to come out of hiding now.
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While I can respect your post, I just completely disagree. There is NO evidence he is alive INCLUDING the said witnesses. It is sad to see this story spiral into such a conspriacy. Just my opinion.

LE DOES NOT take any of this info as credible. Every single thing thrown to them with respect to things you've mentioned, LE does not deem as any credible evidence. I'll take LE's word over completely unproven rumors.
& I certainly would not demonize "John" at all.
 
PattyCake said:
While I can respect your post, I just completely disagree. There is NO evidence he is alive INCLUDING the said witnesses. It is sad to see this story spiral into such a conspriacy. Just my opinion.

LE DOES NOT take any of this info as credible. Every single thing thrown to them with respect to things you've mentioned, LE does not deem as any credible evidence. I'll take LE's word over completely unproven rumors.
& I certainly would not demonize "John" at all.
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You might not, but other people would. People "demonize" the victim all the time. Remember Steven Stayner? His own family questioned why he went with Parnell, why he stayed with Parnell, how he could believe Parnell's lies, and how he could let Parnell sexually abuse him. Steven Stayner was seven when abducted and totally brainwashed by Parnell.
 
I really have no idea what to believe regarding this case. There are a lot of conspiracies and precious little facts.

Maybe the 3 witnesses are weak. If they are wrong then they have conspired to deceive or were themselves mistaken or some combination of the two.

Without a body or a confession why abandon all hope and write John off? The Basken children have re-emerged after 20 years. They may not have been abducted by strangers but all 4 of them hid successfully all that time and the kids did not contact their parents. If their parents had given up then the news article that outed them would not have been published and the parents may have well gone to their graves in the agony of not knowing.

Steven Stayner (thanks Mr Ed) is another example of why to hope that Gosch returns as well as a reminder to not revictimize those lost children who do find their way back home.

It is certainly not my intent to foment conspiracies. This case is frustrating as a parent and I only hope for a resolution for his family as well as the handful of us who also worry and wonder.
 
PattyCake said:
Yes, in all likelihood Johnny is deceased at the hands of a serial killer. There's enough evidence to support that. Sadly, I feel really bad for Noreen as it has shown over the years how she has suffered tremendously and I think there's a few people out there that just like to mess with her head.

There has never been any clear / concise evidence that Johnny is alive, I will be my house on it that he won't ever be located alive. IT's really terrible that this case seems to linger on like it does and the poor child cannot rest in peace so to speak.

This is what can happen when murdered children are never located. At times the parents can really go off the deep end drawing themselves into the strangest of conspiracies or whatever in order to hold onto their sanity and maintain any semblance of belief that their child is still alive. :(
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Thank God a voice of reason...
Of course he was abducted and killed just like scores of others unfortunately.
I think the cult of conspiracy that has sprung up around this particular case is worthy of a case study all by itself.
 
I would say that Johnny was killed by a lone predator is the most "likely" scenario (based on simple statistics), but I would disagree that the evidence supports that conclusion. The only "evidence" is the testimony of Bonacci, Gibson, Noreen and a fourth person (actual name unknown with the screen name of bwit) who all claim to have had at least some level of contact with Johnny in the last ten years. Now, it is possible that each of these people may not be telling the truth , but there is no "evidence" to contradict their stories. No one has come forward to confess to killing Johnny, nor has anyone ever testified to witnessing anything other than Johnny being kidnapped and held by a ring of pedophiles. It may be that everyone who claims to have witnessed this is a complete liar, but no witness with a contradictory explaination of Johnnys kidnapping has ever come forward. Why?
 
Let me use an analogy to better explain my take on this:

Let's say that the story was not that Johnny was taken by a pedo ring, but was abducted by a UFO (something that most people would also consider a ridiculous premise). If I heard that Johnny was missing, then I might conclude that is it most likely that he was taken and killed by a pedo. But, what if Paul Bonacci claimed that he was taken by a UFO earlier and said that he was on the UFO and saw Johnny taken by the aliens? And that Noreen claims that Johnny appeared at her doorstep and explained that he had been abducted by a UFO? And Jimmy Gibson says that he was abducted by the same UFO and that he knows that Johnny was also? And bwit posts that he also knows Johnny and knows that the UFO story is true?

Even though I consider the UFO story implausible, I would have to conclude that story is still possible based on the sheer number of witnesses testifying that the story is true. The original idea of a lone predator still makes the most "sense", but with so many witnessing something else, I could not dismiss the UFO possibility outright, no matter how wild it may seem.
 
I just don't get why so many people seem to think the pedophile ring scenario is so ridiculous or outlandish, and outright discount it in favor of a serial killer. On the other hand, if the pedophile ring is indeed responsible, why has it not yet been exposed? Why can't Paul Bonacci and others do anything about this?
 
I was under the impression that it had been outed. Larry King and the Franklin Federal case. Not just that King was extorting money, but that he was having pedophile parties. I could be completely wrong, though. I need a refresher course.

What I find so disturbing is that people are quick to assume he's dead at the hands of a serial killer, but if it were their child, they would at least entertain the notion that he was abducted for sexual slavery. After all, what else would a pedofile want with him? Sex. And to lure other kids to the pedophile. This is so not a leap!

The theory that the pedophile ring extends all the way up to DC... well, it could be an exaggeration. In escense we're playing the telephone game. But my whole point is this: What is so wrong with keeping an open mind about the possibilities related to a missing child? For all we know, Johnny could have fallen into the river and drowned. Instead of arguing, it would be more beneficial if we all follow our own theories.
 
I think it's amazing that A) people really don't have as open minds as they claim and B) they completely disregard the words of the person who is actually investigating part of this case. Someone who probably has a lot more insight into this particular case then most of us.

I know what I saw on Oprah years ago (thank you wanttohelp for confirming my memory!), and if it could happen to that kid, why in the world could it not happen to Johnny?? Just because his mom <modsnip> belived (or believes still) in some really implausible to strange theories?
 
thefragile7393 said:
I think it's amazing that A) people really don't have as open minds as they claim and B) they completely disregard the words of the person who is actually investigating part of this case. Someone who probably has a lot more insight into this particular case then most of us.

I know what I saw on Oprah years ago (thank you wanttohelp for confirming my memory!), and if it could happen to that kid, why in the world could it not happen to Johnny?? Just because his mom seems to have a few screws loose and belived (or believes still) in some really implausible to strange theories?
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This is the story...
http://adecentlife.wordpress.com/2006/03/20/19-yrs-boyreveal-the-secret-world-of-online-child-webcam-*advertiser censored*/
 
Interesting reading....I've read it before. Unfortunately I don'[t know how much of it is truth.....it sounds so simliar to the stories from the "Satanic Panic" from the 80's. I don't see how it could have gotten up into high govt at all. The sources are dubious at best. I guess there is where I bang my head....it's no wonder people don't want to look into this case, since it all seems too crazy.
 
I agree that it sounds crazy. However, some unbelievable things have happened that I never would have thought possible. People who have been missing for 20+ years have turned up, alive and well. Secret lairs have been found that housed people who have been held captive there for years and years. Improbable things sometimes become probable.

I try to remain skeptical, but there is always this little blip in my brain that whispers "What if...?"
 
Hi Doogie! Howya been?
Very intriguing, that you've made contact with Bonacci and Jimmy Gibson and that they claim to be in contact with a living Johnny Gosch. Did you ask them if he's in contact with his mother, and if not, why he;s in contact with them but not with her? Did you ask them if Johnny says the photos allegedly of him are real, and if so where & when they were taken? How about asking them if Johnny is Jeff Gannon - that ought to end that question forever, eh?

Ask them what Johnny's been doing for a living. Working? Under his real name? If so, how/when did he apply for and obtain his Social Security number?

Have you asked Bonacci if he'd be willing to take responsibility for and confess to law enforcement about his alleged participation in a range of crimes including kidnapping, rape and murder?

Ultimately, if Johnny is alive and in contact with others who are aware of his identity, then he is not a missing person. So...why have a thread about him on a site like this?
 
Uh, because LE still views him as missing, and until (or IF) LE is shown he's alive, they will consider him that way.
 
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