IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, West Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 #4

[Mr. E]

Do we know for a fact that Johnny isn't in contact with his mother? Has she said as much? The only reason she admitted that she'd seen and talked to Johnny in the first place was because she was asked in a court of law, and denying it would be lying. For all we know, Noreen has regular contact with Johnny. Why would she disclose a relationship with her son to the public if that is not what he wanted?

I think Johnny is a missing person...I don't see how he couldn't be. Either he was kidnapped and murdered or he was kidnapped and still alive. Whichever it is, nobody knows where he is. So, yeah, he's missing.

Jeff Gannon...is that even still an issue? Does anyone really believe that Gannon and Gosch are the same person?

 

[GarAndTeed]

Just jumping in here to say I remember when Johnny disappeared, and I recall occasional media "updates", and certainly interviews with Noreen. You guys have REALLY been keeping up to date on this case-- bless your hearts! I felt so awful every time I saw print or media footage of Noreen; I can't imagine not knowing what had happened to one's child for so many years. I'll check out the links & resources you all have provided and/or referred to; please let me know if I can be of help in any specific way. FWIW, my personal opinion *was* that Johnny had been killed; but my mind is totally open to any possibility.
Thanks,
G&Td

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Hi Doogie! Howya been?
Very intriguing, that you've made contact with Bonacci and Jimmy Gibson and that they claim to be in contact with a living Johnny Gosch. Did you ask them if he's in contact with his mother, and if not, why he;s in contact with them but not with her? Did you ask them if Johnny says the photos allegedly of him are real, and if so where & when they were taken? How about asking them if Johnny is Jeff Gannon - that ought to end that question forever, eh?

Ask them what Johnny's been doing for a living. Working? Under his real name? If so, how/when did he apply for and obtain his Social Security number?

Have you asked Bonacci if he'd be willing to take responsibility for and confess to law enforcement about his alleged participation in a range of crimes including kidnapping, rape and murder?

Ultimately, if Johnny is alive and in contact with others who are aware of his identity, then he is not a missing person. So...why have a thread about him on a site like this?

Hi, Roy.

Lets answer the easiest question first: Gannon is not Gosch.

According to Jimmy Gibson, none of the bondage pictures are of Johnny. Jimmy has provided a picture of Johnny from allegedly the post-abduction era, but it has not been posted online. I have seen it and it does look like Johnny from around the time he disappeared, but I cannot say whether it is pre or post abduction.

If what I am being told is true (and what I have speculated by reading between the lines is also true), then Johnny is in a place where having a social security number is not neccessary. No one has specifically said, but I would suspect that he uses an alias and that few know of his past. He is in a place that is very insulated from the outside world and intrusion by any strangers would be prevented - perhaps even by force if neccessary.

Your statement about 'why are people still looking for him" is a valid question. Noreen has contemplated actually having him declared dead in order to protect him in his new life. She has chosen not to (at this point) but keeps that as an open option.

And there has allegedly been some online communication between Johnny and Noreen, but it usually is through Jimmy Gibson. Bonacci has shared that there was one additional in-person contact between Johnny and Noreen (not counting the secret visit mentioned before). Noreen was doing a book signing at a store. Paul, who was also there, approached her and stated that "He is here." Noreen saw a young man in the audience who appeared to be wearing a disguise. Noreen played it cool so as to not draw attention to him, but by the time she did try to make contact, the young man had slipped out the door. Paul later said that the man had actually had Noreen sign a copy of her book prior to Paul alerting her that he was Johnny. (I do not know why all of the "cloak-and-dagger" is deemed neccessary, but that is how these people choose to operate. I am not in there shoes so I cannot say if it is neccessary or theatrics.)

Concerning Paul: I would say that he has been rather forthcoming in stating what he has done while under oath. If LE has done nothing with that info (or if they do not believe it), then that cannot be held against Paul. Paul did admit to the molestation charge and served his time. He now is married with a family and authorities evidently do not feel that he is a danger to his children since they have not been removed from his home. It is difficult (if not impossible) to judge a person based on internet conversations alone, but Paul does seem sincere in sharing what he has experienced.

One amazing thing about conversing with Paul is how much of what he has stated has been manipulated and altered for what appears to be a political purpose. For example, Paul has never stated that he saw George HW Bush at pedophile parties in Washington. He has clarified that he saw someone who looked like Bush and that Larry King claimed was Bush at a party, but explained that often King would have "look-alikes" to both seemingly implicate politicians in these activities and also to make any of the kids involved seem ridiculous if the ever told of what they saw. This is much more believable to me than stories of a sitting president being openly involved in pedophilia with multiple witnesses.

One thing that I have learned while looking into this is that it probably did exist, but was on a much smaller scale than what has been portrayed by some. Gibson denies the political angle all together, while Bonnaci says that the political component was not as large as some have claimed. And, for me, the smaller a conspiracy, the more believable it becomes.

 

[Roy Harrold]

Doogie,

You've certainly done a lot of work on this since we last conversed, and you have my thanks for that.

It's hard to conceive of a circumstance under which a social security number would not be necessary. You have to have one if you are an inmate, or a patient, even if you are not working for a living. Even if confidentiality is strictly adhered to, say in an institution, activity under that number should be traceable by law enforcement.

In any case, it seems hypocritical for people who claim to be devoted to exposing child exploitation and supporters of missing child institutions such as the NCMC, to abuse such systems by allowing a person who is not really missing to continue to be listed therein. The idea that Johnny himself rectifying that error would necessarily generate a media circus is false. People are quietly removed from their database all the time, with no explanations given. DOE is the same, their updates frequently contain no more information than; " X was found alive in (wherever)". Certainly, he could contact Des Moines police himself and simply say: "I'm Johnny Gosch, I don't want to talk about where I've been but I'm not missing.

And the idea that Noreen could have him declared legally dead if she knows he isn't, well, that would be a criminal act which would seem completely out of character and hypocritical.

I agree, the smaller the conspiracy the more likely to be real. How about a conspiracy of two? If a man's wife went missing and friends asking after her were told by the husband; "Yes, I just talked to her last week - she's 'on a cruise' or she's 'visiting relatives'" but there was no objective evidence to confirm that she was anywhere at all, wouldn't it be a reasonable assumption that the man's claims to be in contact with the missing woman were a smokescreen intended to cover the fact that he did away with her himself?

Two people have been responsible for most of the goose-chasing "leads" provided in this case over the years. Two people now claim to be in regular contact with a person for whom there is no objective evidence that the person is even still alive. Perhaps those two people have been covering up their own involvement in kidnapping, raping and murdering Johnny Gosch?

 

[Roy Harrold]

Doogie,

Regarding your comment, that Jimmy Gibson told you none of the bondage photos are of Johnny. You & I already knew that, of course. Remember the original 3 photos, one of which was apparently photoshopped to add the "brand", probably to reinforce the whole story told by Bonacci & Gibson? Well, I think you should have another look at what willing dupe Tim White said about where he got them from:

"I am the one to first receive from Jimmy Gibson the FIRST 3 photos ever to be released of JOHNNY GOSCH since his kidnapping in Des Moines(Jimmy Gibson was in those too) and I then emailed those to Noreen Gosch,Jim Rothstein,Ted Gunderson,Michael Corbin,H Michael Sweeney,and John DeCamp--this happened on August 27,2006 and Noreen Gosch posted those first 3 photos the next day to her website"

http://www.apfn.net/MESSAGEBOARD/08-27-07/discussion.cgi.136.html

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Doogie,

Regarding your comment, that Jimmy Gibson told you none of the bondage photos are of Johnny. You & I already knew that, of course. Remember the original 3 photos, one of which was apparently photoshopped to add the "brand", probably to reinforce the whole story told by Bonacci & Gibson? Well, I think you should have another look at what willing dupe Tim White said about where he got them from:

"I am the one to first receive from Jimmy Gibson the FIRST 3 photos ever to be released of JOHNNY GOSCH since his kidnapping in Des Moines(Jimmy Gibson was in those too) and I then emailed those to Noreen Gosch,Jim Rothstein,Ted Gunderson,Michael Corbin,H Michael Sweeney,and John DeCamp--this happened on August 27,2006 and Noreen Gosch posted those first 3 photos the next day to her website"

http://www.apfn.net/MESSAGEBOARD/08-27-07/discussion.cgi.136.html

I asked Jimmy about this reported sequence of events and he denies that he sent any pictures to Tim White. As you know, White is a rather crazy fellow prone to wild claims, distortions and lies, so him creating a cover story involving Jimmy Gibson is certainly plausible. When you add to the mix that White and Patricia Johnson-Holm knew each other prior to the "discovery" of these photos (which PJH also falsely claims include her son), then you seem to have a con-job involving White and Holm duping Noreen, using the name of Jimmy Gibson to lend some level of credibility to the ruse. IMHO

 

[Dr. Doogie]

It's hard to conceive of a circumstance under which a social security number would not be necessary. You have to have one if you are an inmate, or a patient, even if you are not working for a living. Even if confidentiality is strictly adhered to, say in an institution, activity under that number should be traceable by law enforcement.

Someone living in a different country would not need a US SSN.

 

[Roy Harrold]

Someone living in a different country would not need a US SSN.

How would they obtain a passport without one?
In any case, If Johnny is alive he has obviously not been in "his current circumstances" for 20+ years - so how was he supporting himself before that?

I wasn't sure what to make of Gibson for a long time, but your revelations that he's been involved in "JT Leroy" style ploys such as being "the voice of Johnny" over the internet, and the stunt with Bonacci in attendance - "he's here, in disguise!" have convinced me that Gibson was probably the brains of their deception operation the whole time.

Frankly, I think they've gotten away with it. I think they were active, willing participants in Johnny Gosch's kidnapping, rape & murder and have been feeding people goose-chasing leads ever since. They've sucessfully kept people hunting for bad guys that they made up instead of looking at them as suspects, and they've created an army of admirers who would do anything - including staging fake "live Johnny" appearance - because those people believe they are helping victims of a horrific & powerful pedophile ring.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

How would they obtain a passport without one?

I have never possessed a passport yet I have travelled to both Mexico and Canada. Recent post-9/11 changes to border control now require a passport to cross the southern and northern borders, but during the many years between Johnny's disappearance and that change, crossing into those countries only required the ability to travel through a gate, no paperwork.

In any case, If Johnny is alive he has obviously not been in "his current circumstances" for 20+ years - so how was he supporting himself before that?

No idea. If my understanding is correct, he does live in a rather closeknit community where he may work where no one asks any questions or he could be being helped by neighbors, but this is my speculation and is not based on empirical data.

...I think they were active, willing participants in Johnny Gosch's kidnapping, rape & murder and have been feeding people goose-chasing leads ever since. They've sucessfully kept people hunting for bad guys that they made up instead of looking at them as suspects, and they've created an army of admirers who would do anything - including staging fake "live Johnny" appearance - because those people believe they are helping victims of a horrific & powerful pedophile ring.

I believe that Jimmy is about the same age as Johnny while Paul is only a few years older. The idea that a twelve year old from Minnesota and a sixteen year old from Omaha would hatch a kidnap/rape/murder plot in Iowa that would include a decades long plan of disinformation designed to hide their involvement (especially considering that it was their own words that linked them to Johnny's case at all - if they never had said anything, no one would ever have thought them suspects at all) is unlikely. I don't believe in the "big conspiracy", but even the "big conspiracy" is more plausible than that.

The truthfulness of the Noreen/Johnny encounters is an open question for me. It is possible (though unlikely) that it was fabricated to help keep Johnny's case alive, but please recall that Noreen only told of the first visit while under oath. And Paul's story of the booksigning meeting serves what conspiratorial purpose? Paul is an ex-con trying to raises a family and operate his own business - there is no "upside" to him drawing attention to himself or this case other than to do what he feels is right. Since he is an intregal part of the story concerning Gosch and Franklin, I continue to seek his responses to questions about the cases. So far, nothing he has said to me has been proven false, though much of what he says is unprovable (by me, at least).

 

[Roy Harrold]

I didn't say "hatch a plot", I said "active & willing participants".

However, it does seem unlikely that Jimmy would have been involved in Johnny's abduction...he might have been a runaway already at 12 (it happens) but I don't know that...so I may have over-reacted to the scenario you appeared to me to be painting; that Bonnaci & Gibson were claiming to have been in long-term contact with Johnny with Gibson being the principle "contact".

Having now gone back and read the last postings of the Johnny #3 thread, I see that this was not what you were saying. You're saying that Bonacci, Gibson & Noreen have been contacted by an "I'm Johnny Gosch" claimant - is that right?

In that case, for your own protection, please do some research into a person called "Eve" who tormented blogger Dream's End with some fiendishly meticulous manipulations. This primarily had to do with the Theresa Duncan suicide, but "Eve" also has a fixation/fascination with Johnny Gosch. In fact, I believe she might be the source of that alleged post-kidnapping photo of Johnny you mentioned. She's also obsessed with the word "wit" and with anagrams. It's possible that "Eve" could be your "Johnny", and you need to understand that she is very good at what she does.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Roy:

You may be on to something, but I think it is not exactly what you suspect. There was one additional person on Franklinfiles.net who claimed to know Johnny and posted as if they had regular contact. That person's screen name was "Bwit". I have basically ignored what this person posted because it was always so cyptic with no foundation as to why this person would know Johnny. But based on your post, it probably is this "Eve" woman.

Both Jimmy and Paul have claimed to have had numerous face-to-face contacts with Johnny, not just online conversations with someone who may or may not be an imposter. Neither have said exactly where Johnny is, but they (primarily Jimmy) dropped enough clues for me to have a pretty good guess of where Johnny is and what his situation is. If my speculations are correct, then he is currently safe and insulated.

Of course, all of this is premised on the idea that I and others are not being "played". Jimmy in particular is a bit of a prankster and some of his staements I believe to be made for effect, but I trust him on the important stuff. Paul just recently joined the other forum so I do not have a long history of conversations with him, but he seems like he is being truthful. Interestingly, he has stated something similar to what you once said in the past - that his testimony has been used to further a political agenda by misrepresenting what he was truely saying. I found it reassuring that he was seeking to reign in the excesses that others have shown in misusing his story.

 

[Roy Harrold]

I dunno, Doogie. Some of what you are describing, things you have been told, make me feel even more suspicious about certain persons and the truthfulness of their statements. Other things are just plain puzzling.

I have some questions, the answeres to which might help me feel less suspicious.
I have no interest in knowing anything about where Johnny Gosch is, if he really is alive, so I have no questions about that.

Can you clarify where Bonacci supposedly was after Gosch was allegedly purchased by the military satanist? Did Bonacci go with Gosch at that time? Was Bonacci with Gosch all of the time up to Johnny & Jimmy's escape? If not, where was he?
How old was Jimmy when he ran away? Where & when was he picked up by "the ring", and how old was he then? Was Jimmy with Johnny the whole time up to their escape? What was the date (approx) of their escape? Did Bonacci come with them? How long after their escape did Johnny & Jimmy stay together? Where did Johnny go, or where was he headed, when they did part company? Did Jimmy remain home with his parents after that?

You said that Jimmy stated none of the bondage photos are of Johnny. Why, then, are Noreen and some of her supporters still claiming that they are of Johnny?

 

[Roy Harrold]

Here's one of the things troubling me about the statements our friend Dr D says that Jimmy Gibson made. Apparently Gibson currently denies having sent any of the fake Gosch photos to Tim White, as White has claimed. Tim White is certainly not a reliable source of info, in my opinion, but I have no reason to believe Dr D's Jimmy Gibson is any more reliable.

Way back in post #484 of thread "What happened to Johnny? All threads merged here" I posted a comment from the Des Moines Register blog comments wherein a "Jimmy Gibson" claimed to be the source of the photos:
"Hi my name is Jimmy Gibson. I am writing you to tell my side of the recent development.
About 3 weeks ago I recieved 3 photos to my email, I do not know who sent them nor do I know where they came from, it was a anom email account probably sent froma proxy server. I was quite shocked when I saw them and debated on wether I should send them to Noreen Gosch or not. Yes the photos indeed look like it could be Johnny Gosch but like everything in this world you are never really sure. So I thought about it for a while and then I edventually sent them to a contact of Noreen Gosch, Tim White who has been working with her on this case.
I went back to the email and looked and one of the images was not an actual copy but a image linked pic. So I traced the image back to the url (Which appears below)"
"I only emailed them to Tim White and Michael Corbin. As far as the images being found on Noreen’s doorstep I have not a clue.
From what I know, Tim White emailed them to everybody he could think of, Decamp/Gosch and so on and who knows how many other people. I believe Mr. White blew this whole thing out of proportion and acted irresponsible"

I assume the current Jimmy Gibson denies having authored that posting? If so, who does he believe has impersonated him and to what purpose would that be done?

 

[Roy Harrold]

Regarding the three allegedly related 'suspects'; Emilio, Michael & Tony (yes?) that Doogie previously stated may have been identified, including their last name and places of residence at the time of Johnny's disappearance:

Is there any information that might link them to employees of the Des Moines paper (papers?) that Gosch and Martin worked for? Specifically, info linking them to persons working directly with the carriers on a daily basis?

I ask, because I believe the facts of the Gosch & Martin disappearances rule out long-term premeditation or planning of their abductions. In both cases, the boys were always accompanied by an older person on their routes excepting for the day of their actual abduction. I think this strongly suggests an opportunistic predation rather than pre-targeting of either boy. However, such an opportunist would probably have needed to be involved in some way with the carriers every day (or every Sunday for Sunday edition only delivery routes) in order to spot the fact that these boys were not accompanied, for the first & only time in both cases.

Shadow posted a link to old news stories from 1982-84, and one of those concerns a man who did work with the carriers and allegedly confessed to molesting several of them. The article stated that this man was cleared by polygraph of involvement in the Gosch or Martin abductions, but it also quotes a police representative to the effect that "more people could be involved" in the exploitation of the carriers.

A link between the Tony, Michael & Emilio to the man in the article or his associates at that time, or to other persons involved with the carriers on a daily basis, could be significant, perhaps?

 

[Roy Harrold]

Former NYPD detective James Rothstein, a member of Noreen Gosch's investigative team, has been telling tall tales for years. I recently discovered an outrageously blatant fabrication of his from 2007.

In an interview with Paul David Collins, in reference to the Deborah Jeane Palfrey prostitution scandal, Rothstein claims that McCarthy committee counsel Roy Cohn once told him "that he was part of a rather elaborate sexual blackmail operation that compromised politicians with child prostitutes" and "that this operation was being carried out as part of the anticommunist crusade of the time". What nonsense! There is absolutely no evidence to support the idea that members of the McCarthy committee were involved in setting up Communists or anyone else with child prostitutes and then blackmailing them. The idea doesn't even make sense - who would they have been setting up, and how would this possibly advance "the anticommunist crusade"? Where would the McCarthy committee come up with the resources necessary to carry out such a campaign? They weren't the CIA or some clandestine agency operating outside the law, with unlimited financing, personnel and rendezous infrastructure under their control. Most importantly, they may have been ruthless and power-mad but sexually exploiting children for any purpose including a political one would have been a total betrayal of the morals & ethics they purported to be defenders of.

Then Rothstein slips even further into a fantasy world of his own imagining by claiming that he "also had an opportunity to speak to infamous Watergate burglar Frank Sturgis. During this conversation, Sturgis revealed one of the reasons for breaking into the Watergate. According to Sturgis, there was a "Pedophile Book" hidden away at the Democratic National Committee headquarters". "The book was supposed to have a list of pedophiles on the American political scene".

Again, utter nonsense! The Watergate break-in was dissected in detail years ago, the motivations are well known and there has never been the slightest scrap of evidence that "the plumbers" were looking for any fictitious "list of American political pedophiles". Where would such a list have come from - compiled by high-powered psychics capable of looking into the hearts & secret fantasies of people they've never met?

Paul Collins states: "Rothstein is no conspiracy theorist", another blatant falsehood. When the Gannon=Gosch canard was a hot topic, Rothstein tried to tie it to a complex conspiracy theory involving the highest powers in the American government:

"A private investigator working Johnny's disappearance believe his kidnapping was part of a government conspiracy"
"This man has told us that at the end of their investigation that there were 834 kids involved that were kidnapped," says James Rothstein. He's talking about a former CIA agent who must remain anonymous.
Rothstein is a former New York City police detective, now a private investigator working the case for Johnny's mother, Noreen. And within the last couple weeks, Rothstein has uncovered new evidence linking Johnny's kidnapping to child prostitution. "It basically came down to one thing and one thing only. You know, it was money. These kids were being grabbed to satisfy the malignant, twisted, you know, evil depravity of very powerful individuals who have the money," he says.
Rothstein is talking about individuals who would spend as much as $10,000 to have sex with young boys and girls. And this new evidence points to the involvement of U.S. government officials. "They were using kids to compromise people. And what better way to compromise somebody than get a young boy with a politician or some powerful person that may be in the military or whatever and then you can compromise them and get what ever you want."
"Rothstein now believes the CIA was involved and tried cover it up. "They were assigned to find out if there was an agency connection to it and I am quite sure that if they found one, to make sure it was covered," he says.
And Rothstein's CIA informant says this: "We were specifically ordered to clear our name. This would make the American agency look pretty s****y, like we're all a bunch of *advertiser censored**ing child molesters."

This conspiracy theme, which is central to many of the conspiracy theories involving the Gosch case, is inherently unlikely and nonsensical. There seem to be significant numbers of persons in America who believe that everyone in a position of power in politics, law enforcement, the military or business is a closet pedophile and if you present them with an opportunity to sexually exploit children they will be incapable of restraining themselves and too stupid to even guess that they might be getting set-up for blackmail.

In reality, about 4% of the population experience pedophilic attractions. It's possible that 4% of politicians, military leaders and corporate executives have pedophilic tendencies, but the "compromising leaders with child prostitutes" conspiracy theme implies massive involvement and wholesale corruption of our social institutions. This is just irrationally improbable. The vast majority of persons, leaders or not, have no sexual interest in minors and offering them opportunities to have sex with children isn't going to suddenly seduce them into lusting for young boys or girls. Even if 4% of our leaders were pedophiles, compromising them through blackmail wouldn't get you very far - 96% of leaders would remain uncompromised. How much control over society would you gain with only 4% of leaders in your pocket? It wouldn't be worth the risk, effort and expense involved to pull it off.

 

[Mr. E]

Well, they did bring boy prostitutes (via Craig Spence?) to the White House in the late 80s, so I guess not everybody in Washington DC is squeaky clean.

 

[Roy Harrold]

Well, they did bring boy prostitutes (via Craig Spence?) to the White House in the late 80s, so I guess not everybody in Washington DC is squeaky clean.

I totally agree that "not everybody in Washington DC is squeaky clean". Yes, people with all kinds of nefarious or criminal inclinations can end up in leadership positions and that certainly includes politicians. It's not impossible that some people serving in the US government might have pedophilic inclinations - since 4% of the population is thought to have such problems. But, would seeking out such persons and setting them up with child prostitutes for the purpose of blackmailing them actually give you behind-the-scenes control of the US government, military and industry as conspiracy theorists claim?

The case you referred to, involving Craig Spence, was a homosexual escort service/prostitution "ring". Spence was a client of these companies, he didn't run them. They operated quite openly, for the most part, placing ads for services and using commercial credit card billings. This was not a secret, untraceable, "black-ops" blackmailing operation employeeing brainwashed sex-slaves. It was a gay sex-for-hire service much like you'd find in any major American city at that time. The prostitutes involved seem very typical of the young men & women who get caught up in that lifestyle, often victims of childhood abuse, often drug addicts, but certainly not under mind control or being held against their will in a warehouse or something. Spence did have an involvement with a 15 year old, and it's a tragic fact that teens are sometimes recruited by escort agencies, but there's no credible evidence that these companies specialized in under-age prostitutes or sought clients with such inclinations.

From one of the Washington Times stories:
"The Washington Times story is a rank attempt to sensationalize a fact that should come as no surprise to anybody: that there are gay people in the Republican Party and in this Republican administration," the National Gay & Lesbian Task Force said in a statement. "The story The Times does not tell is the story of the repression and fear that still mars the lives of gay individuals in politics."
The group also challenged the possibility raised in The Times' story of threats to national security from the blackmail of homosexuals in sensitive government positions, saying there has never been "even one single documented case of gay-related espionage" in the past 40 years".

Is there any evidence that this prostitution ring, which was patronized by some lower-level government officials, successfully "compromised" those people and had effective control over the American government? No. The owner/operators were prosecuted and convicted, they were not powerful enough to escape justice.

Spence apparently ran parties from his own home, and connected all kinds of professional people with prostitutes through those parties, but there is only evidence of him successfully blackmailing one person. Another quote from the Washington Times stories reinforces what I stated before, that offering sexual liasons with prostitutes that the targeted guest doesn't have an existing attraction for isn't going to seduce many people, and since pedophilic attraction is thankfully quite rare using children as sexual lures wouldn't net many important or powerful 'fish':

"One man described having a limousine sent to his home by Mr. Spence and being brought to a gathering at which several young men tried to become friendly with him. "I didn't bite; it's not my inclination," the man said. "But he used his homosexual network for all it was worth."

In the end, Craig Spence's schemes to compile wealth and power, including sexual blackmail, don't seem to have given him the power to control governments or even the media. He lost his wealth, got himself arrested, and was reduced to public begging and sleeping in parks before his ignoble passing in a hotel room. In the end, Spence had a big mouth but no power over government, the justice system, or captains of industry.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Bump!

 

[Mr. E]

I verged on obssession when it came to this case when I was a kid. I kept magazine and newspaper clippings. I really feel like I remember reading that one of the many "sightings" of Johnny (if they were true sightings) in the 80s was of him traveling with two truckers. Am I thinking of another case? Does anybody know of a missing boy case in the 80s where the boy was sighted with two truckers? I think the truckers were even described as one black and one white.

I really want to know because I have recently seen a picture of a boy who looks like Johnny online, and he is in front of what appears to be a semi. Many posters on this thread probably know the site I'm referring to; on the site, the person who posted the photo says it is Johnny at age, if I recall, about 15.

 

[thefragile7393]

Anything new on your end Dr. Doogie?