ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #12

[jessie]

The main thing that is hard to comprehend for me as a Brit is the sheer size vs population of Idaho and the mountains and being thousands of feet above sea level etc.

Idaho is 1.5 times the size of England with a population of just 1.6 million. My "Shire" is just 832 sq miles and has a population of just under a million. Idaho is over 83,000 sq miles!

Sorry if this post is too off-topic but just wanted to emphasis just how vast and wild Idaho is.

I'm in awe of the size of Idaho, thanks TTWO for that info. My "shire" in England is less than 1,400 sq. miles with about half a million people. Looking at the maps and pictures of Idaho, and the wild animals there is unbelievable in comparison.

Sorry if o/t.

 

[jessie]

I've been following the thread on WS about the body parts of a child found in a lake in Chicago. I read that LE said sonar equipment wouldn't or didn't work in that body of water.

Being a natural worrier I checked back to find out what type of sonar equipment had been used for the reservoir at the campground.

The Sheriff said it was Side Scan Sonar which I looked up, and I thought this page might be of interest to others - if my pc lets me load it here :blushing:

Not sure if I'm allowed to put the link, but it has put my mind at rest that Deorr isn't in the reservoir as it seems so efficient.


http://gralston1.home.mindspring.com/Sidescan.html

 

[CoverMeCagney]

'

People in the US and many other parts of the world make camping their favorite past time. Many camp while pregnant, with infants, with toddlers, the "elderly", and every age in between. It's as natural to us as fish and chips are to you. The people who choose to spend their vacations and free time camping at campgrounds, state parks, and national forests wouldn't trade it for all the tea in China. This family's choice to camp with a toddler and an older gentleman would certainly not be considered an odd choice by the vast majority. IMO

I go camping more than I have fish and chips!

Camping is a big thing here too and I wouldn't trade it for all the tea in China either (Yorkshire tea, maybe.... ). But for me personally it's time to chill out and spend quality time with my family and friends, and that means choosing places where we're all safe, where we could get help if needed, and where there aren't animals that could drag a child away and then eat it.

Anyway, it's kind of by the by, there are plenty of Americans here who have questioned the location of and the company on this trip. I am certainly not the first to raise an eyebrow.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I'm not questioning WHERE they went (its alien to me but it could be their favourite place in the world despite the water and lions)

I'm not questioning WHO (but I'd feel weird having an unknown adult with alcohol problems near my child, especially in conjunction with an oxygen dependent immobile pensioner)

I AM questioning WHY, with all these potential alarm bells ringing, they were not watching their very small child adequately.

 

[MBK]

Why is that an interesting choice for grandpa? Had he not talked to this guy before? Never been camping with him before? I don't get why its so sinister that grandpa would like to have a friend along.

Nothing like consorting with felons.

 

[ILOKAL]

I go camping more than I have fish and chips!

Camping is a big thing here too and I wouldn't trade it for all the tea in China either (Yorkshire tea, maybe.... ). But for me personally it's time to chill out and spend quality time with my family and friends, and that means choosing places where we're all safe, where we could get help if needed, and where there aren't animals that could drag a child away and then eat it.

Anyway, it's kind of by the by, there are plenty of Americans here who have questioned the location of and the company on this trip. I am certainly not the first to raise an eyebrow.

Or Yorkshire Pudding (YUM!)

In all fairness to the family, it seemed they were going camping for the same reasons you described, e.g. to chill out and spend quality time with family. They said they thought the area was very safe except they worried about the water. Unless they were planning to stay in a tent,they probably thought the camper would keep them safe from wild animals. Most people aren't aware of the dangers to children from mountain lions (many aren't very aware of them at all) and I doubt that would have even been a consideration when they chose where to camp. Warnings about bears are common in those areas where they habitate. I don't know about warnings for wolves. Seldom are there warnings for mountain lions. Some lawsuits have been won on that very premise when people were attacked by mountain lions. IMO

As far as the company on the trip, it's been said that JM and DK had never met IR prior to meeting him at the campsite and I have no idea if they knew anything about him previously.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Or Yorkshire Pudding (YUM!)

In all fairness to the family, it seemed they were going camping for the same reasons you described, e.g. to chill out and spend quality time with family. They said they thought the area was very safe except they worried about the water. Unless they were planning to stay in a tent,they probably thought the camper would keep them safe from wild animals. Most people aren't aware of the dangers to children from mountain lions (many aren't very aware of them at all) and I doubt that would have even been a consideration when they chose where to camp. Warnings about bears are common in those areas where they habitate. I don't know about warnings for wolves. Seldom are there warnings for mountain lions. Some lawsuits have been won on that very premise when people were attacked by mountain lions. IMO

As far as the company on the trip, it's been said that JM and DK had never met IR prior to meeting him at the campsite and I have no idea if they knew anything about him previously.

BBM - I think bears and wolves would be enough to put me off, but then I concede we are a bit limited with our wild animals. We just had a headline about an epidemic of large spiders - oh how the Aussies must have laughed!

As for IR. They had never met him and probably had no idea about his criminal past, but I assume they knew Grandpa met him at AA and that he was significantly younger.

We simply don't know what the arrangements were, and it's academic anyway. My point is that they walked away for 10 minutes (if not longer) without being totally sure their baby was in good care, and safe from lions and tigers and bears.

I feel so sorry that Deorr has gone if they honestly know nothing about it. But like countless others before them, who have lost their kids through accident or foul play, they must have a few regrets about either where they went or who they were with.

 

[Rayemonde]

Idk I guess I've never thought to run a background check on my grandfathers friends. Seriously who does that?
I think things are getting read into way to much with these parents.

Exactly...

Btw, where are people getting that the 2 were in AA together? All i saw is the sheriff said they used to be neighbours, and that's how they know each other.

 

[Aunt_Tulip]

The different perspectives about Idaho's landscape and vastness is so interesting. I never think of Idaho as being so huge since I live in Washinton and having camped here, in Idaho, Montana, Colorado among other places. We usually look for the more remote spots higher in the mountains with big trees, a lake or stream nearby. Thankfully we've never had a kiddo get anything worse than a few mosquito bites or a scraped knee. Even the different perspectives about camping has been interesting to read.

 

[Sillybilly]

Last warning re victim bashing.

There is zero indication the parents have been involved with CPS.

There is zero indication that the parents were aware of the background on GPa's friend (or that GPa himself was aware)

Posts have been removed and if the negative speculation against the family continues, TOs will be issued.

 

[pepelepolecat]

Exactly...

Btw, where are people getting that the 2 were in AA together? All i saw is the sheriff said they used to be neighbours, and that's how they know each other.

That's a longstanding rumor, and I'm not sure where it originated. I'm guessing AA isn't as anonymous as they make it seem.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

The different perspectives about Idaho's landscape and vastness is so interesting. I never think of Idaho as being so huge since I live in Washinton and having camped here, in Idaho, Montana, Colorado among other places. We usually look for the more remote spots higher in the mountains with big trees, a lake or stream nearby. Thankfully we've never had a kiddo get anything worse than a few mosquito bites or a scraped knee. Even the different perspectives about camping has been interesting to read.

I promise this will be my last post on the subject but had to add these stats:

Yorkshire (Largest county/shire in England) 4,500 sq miles 5.2 million population

Lemhi County 4,500 sq miles <8,000 population (3,000 in Salmon)

 

[CoverMeCagney]

We don't have goverment run campsites here, there is no such thing as a council campsite, they're privately owned as is almost all of the land in our little country. We're therefore free to have a couple of glasses of wine or a few tinnies wherever we like.

But you're right, we're in danger of casting aspersions without proof and that is wrong. Nevertheless, however hunkydory their trip was it has somehow gone horribly wrong, hasn't it?

 

[kammiemc]

BBM - I think bears and wolves would be enough to put me off, but then I concede we are a bit limited with our wild animals. We just had a headline about an epidemic of large spiders - oh how the Aussies must have laughed!

As for IR. They had never met him and probably had no idea about his criminal past, but I assume they knew Grandpa met him at AA and that he was significantly younger.

We simply don't know what the arrangements were, and it's academic anyway. My point is that they walked away for 10 minutes (if not longer) without being totally sure their baby was in good care, and safe from lions and tigers and bears.

I feel so sorry that Deorr has gone if they honestly know nothing about it. But like countless others before them, who have lost their kids through accident or foul play, they must have a few regrets about either where they went or who they were with.

I think you had asked about the choice of this particular grouping of people earlier. Please take this as rumor (although it was stated by JM's mom in the comments section on a news FB page, and it is totally benign, so hopefully it okay to post) but she said that she, herself, and other family members were planning to meet the group at the campsite on the weekend. So it would seem (or at least it is possible) that this was intended to eventually be a larger gathering. Hope that helps.

 

[skinnycat]

I can't believe winter is fast approaching and no sign of little DeOrr, it just breaks my heart

All this time and still nothing can be ruled out, yet nothing is ruled in. The poor little guy could be anywhere.

When I think of the ax being taken in for investigation, I wonder if that is natural because it is a weapon or was that because they saw something on the ax. Which makes me wonder if people are into ax throwing,

 

[kammiemc]

I can't believe winter is fast approaching and no sign of little DeOrr, it just breaks my heart

All this time and still nothing can be ruled out, yet nothing is ruled in. The poor little guy could be anywhere.

When I think of the ax being taken in for investigation, I wonder if that is natural because it is a weapon or was that because they saw something on the ax. Which makes me wonder if people are into ax throwing,

I think I'm gonna lose my breakfast!


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[giagreen]

And therein lies the dilema. Why. Why drive a small child so far where there could be all the dangers we know of and suspect. Who does that? Then not take his older brother and sister who love to camp. Pictures on the net.

They slept in the back of grandpa's truck the first night and had to go to the town via a very bumpy, bad road that took almost and hour both ways in the morning to buy feminine products. Huh? Roll toilet paper up in a sock. Your camping! Use a diaper?

Something has been way off with this story since day one.

Nobody on the trip seems to be brain surgeons so something planned, I don't think so. Lucky...maybe. We'll see.

MOO

People go camping with toddlers. They even make backpacks for backpackers who go on week long backpacking trips with their toddlers. The backpacks are designed especially for bringing your toddler with on camping and hiking trips. So I guess they must not be the only parents who go camping with their toddler.

I dont know why she didn't bring her two other kids. Do you? Did the other parent say no? Was it her weekend? Did they have something els going on?

Do you live in a bubble? Where I live all the roads are bumpy. We have to drive down a dirt bumpy road for three miles just to get to our driveway. Is it child neglect and does it prove that I'm a bad parent because I drive three miles down a bumpy road then another 20 miles to the store to get tampons because I don't wanna use my sons diaper? Hell to the NO it doesn't. I can't believe someone's guilt is based on bumpy roads, and not wanting to go with out tampons.

 

[neesaki]

I can't believe winter is fast approaching and no sign of little DeOrr, it just breaks my heart

All this time and still nothing can be ruled out, yet nothing is ruled in. The poor little guy could be anywhere.

When I think of the ax being taken in for investigation, I wonder if that is natural because it is a weapon or was that because they saw something on the ax. Which makes me wonder if people are into ax throwing,

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Axe? What axe? I put myself on time out and then ask what's happened while I was gone, and nobody mentions the axe?!

 

[ILOKAL]

I am not directing this at any one poster in particular because I've read this from several.

In response to your question-s . . . . "WHO DOES THAT?" . . . . Which clearly makes the reader think or maybe even BELIEVE that these parents did something SO uncharacteristic and agregious from what others would do as to make it sound nefarious . . . . I recommend that you do the research that one would HAVE to have done to arrive at such a seemingly damning conclusion that then asks . . . . "WHO DOES THAT?" . . . .

Some statistics and links would be appropriate and appreciated.