ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - # 25

[Susjay]

I see cant stop saying the word before its out. statement analysis like a lot of other things--a helpful tool, but not always the end-all and be-all.
When I switched from teaching elementary to middle school, I found that the older students were harder to read, and I'm a person who tends to take people at face value. I would walk into the staff room and say, "Did you know Student X can't do any homework this week because he has to go to Paris?" "Really, Ms. ReadySet? You believe that Student X has to go to Paris?" etc.
So I started reading about Body Language Analysis and Statement Analysis. Statement Analysis helped me the most. I take it with a grain of salt when I read an analysis, depending on who is doing it, but there are some principles that ring true to me, and I do use it. So, for me, it would be cutting off our nose to spite our face, to disregard it.
And I really, really believe that if someone doesn't say something, you can't say it for them!

ETA: It's not that statement analysis can tell if someone's lying, IMO, it's that it can tell if their are red flags that need to be looked into further. JMO

Totally agree. Things like "leakage" are when people say things that they didn't intend to say. Like when the brain is going to fast for the mouth and the mouth can't stop the word. Maybe it's not leakage but "overflowing brain". Analysis of a transcript can't really stand alone. And for me the non-verbals are so important that go with the words. Sure we all do analysis of what people say and watch their behaviour and the context is very important. When VDK stumbled over Snake river instead of Salmon SAR I thought this might be a little leakage or overflowing brain.
I'm referring to is the statement analysis that goes far beyond this that is packaged as a business and a more exact method of interpreting transcripts, and says well this word means this or that. Like there is some sort of code that can be used to decipher the truth. Of this I am skeptical. And when people create a whole package like this and sell it as "the panacea" sort of thing I get suspicious and question. Sorry if I rattled anyone's cage too much - but I've seen packages sold as magic bullets and there aren't too many magic bullets.
I wish LE had one to solve this case.

 

[Susjay]

That's kind of interesting. Don't those dumpsters say Keep Out and Private Property?

Not sure about Leadore but aren't the dumpsters sometimes behind shops and in pretty easy access?

 

[TxJan1971]

First time posting, been following for a while... I don't believe I've seen this discussed, but besides family and friends arriving AFTER Deorr Jr disappearance, do we know/suspect if anyone else may have been camping with the group but left prior to LE arrival?
Also, from someone who normally just lurks, I really appreciate everyone's effort here!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Welcome. I'm glad you decided to post. The answers to many questions can be found in the media thread. I hope you'll check it out.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12122056

08:46
SB: No, at this time I don’t consider them suspects, uh, and the only reason I’m calling them a person of interest is because they were at the scene. Uh, they’re the only people at the scene other than one family that was at the upper lake that was from another county and…and the law enforcement in that jurisdiction, we talked about has vouched for them and uh they’re an older couple, and we’ve been reassured by law enforcement that they would not be involved in any abduction or any of that sorts

Ann, were you talking about "strangers" who may have been camping at the upper reservoir (not with the family/GGP/friend), or were you referring to perhaps friends or relatives of any of the four who may have been "camping with the group" and possibly "left before LE arrived?" I was under the impression you were talking about perhaps someone that may have been hanging out/camping with mom, dad, GGP and or Friend but left. I may have misunderstood your question.

If I recall, the non-related strangers camping at the upper campground were there when LE arrived and even helped in the search (trying to find that link).

Here's the link that they helped after LE arrived:

16:55
TG: Okay. You did mention something earlier and I want to clear this up. You said something about a…a family, an older family that um…

17:03
SB: Yes, there’s the upper part of the reservoir, there was another family camped up there. They actually helped with the search on the first day and maybe even the second day and uh they uh disappeared before we got a chance to interview them but we were able to track them down. We talked to the law enforcement in their community and they helped us track them down and we uh chatted with them and we don’t feel like uh they were involved. It’s an older couple and they had some of their children come up and uh we’re fairly confident they never saw um the Kunz family, and we’re fairly confident they had nothing to do with uh the disappearance.

~~
I guess I just thought the question was referring to friends/family members of those related to baby Deorr who may have been there and then left before LE arrived on the scene.

 

[TxJan1971]

Does anyone know if the Sheriff has ever confirmed that NCMEC will actually be part of the upcoming search effort? I know SB previously stated he was considering their offer to come back with their dogs. My guess is that perhaps they will give it a go first, followed by any unknowns (FBI recommendations?) and then perhaps TES and the GA dogs would be brought in if given the go ahead by LE/FBI. JMO

 

[desert-blue]

If VDK was always with LE when he was searching, when did the alleged trespassing occur? Was it when DeOrr first went missing and does that mean there were times early on when the POI's were out "searching" unaccompanied? I assume if someone official was with him, that person would not allow him to trespass onto private property.

On the other hand, I think it's entirely possible that he was just talking up a storm trying to make it sound like he'd left no stone unturned and show how dedicated he has been in searching for his child.

MOO.

 

[neesaki]

I actually intended the 'mental deficiencies' part to be read sarcastically... perhaps I could have been clearer, but at this time of night I'm actually lucky if I can type a complete sentence. I agree completely.

Oh I do understand, it wasn't you at all, these claims of mental deficiencies have been ongoing from almost the beginning and have never really let up. But there's yet been anything to substantiate that IR has any mental deficiencies at all, rather he seems like a rather ordinary guy to me, one who just got put in the middle of a bad situation. He was one who wasn't qualified to pass the polygraph, apparently due to meds. , such as blood pressure or various other common prescription drugs that are known to alter the results therefore causing it to be inconclusive .

 

[gliving]

First time posting, been following for a while... I don't believe I've seen this discussed, but besides family and friends arriving AFTER Deorr Jr disappearance, do we know/suspect if anyone else may have been camping with the group but left prior to LE arrival?
Also, from someone who normally just lurks, I really appreciate everyone's effort here!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wecome ann.in.illinois. I hope you find your answer.

Your post reminds that the 'fishing trip' was to be an extended-family camp out for the weekend. The four adults and Deorr arrived early on Thursday supposedly setting up camp and what not. This is per TBC on facebook. Odd how fast it all fell apart. Did the extended family still show up and help with the search?

""If he's in the water up there he was taken up there. He cannot walk on level ground without falling down. His little, short legs they can't walk up hill, he can't walk on level ground. He would have fallen and if he would have fallen he would have been crying. He didn't get up there by himself," (grandpa) DeOrr Kunz said."

http://legacy.ktvb.com/story/news/l...andfather-believes-boy-was-abducted/30321903/

 

[kammiemc]

If VDK was always with LE when he was searching, when did the alleged trespassing occur? Was it when DeOrr first went missing and does that mean there were times early on when the POI's were out "searching" unaccompanied? I assume if someone official was with him, that person would not allow him to trespass onto private property.

On the other hand, I think it's entirely possible that he was just talking up a storm trying to make it sound like he'd left no stone unturned and show how dedicated he has been in searching for his child.

MOO.

I agree. Could go either way. He didn't seem to be holding back on the bravado in this interview. He seems to have chosen fight over flight and anyone who believes LE that he knows what happened to his child is enemy #2 in the fight. (I think enemy #1 is probably a collective ranking of Klein, LE and FBI.)

And he clearly doesn't like when signs (and probably not direction from LE) try to limit where he can traipse.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kammiemc]

If they'd killed their child, accidentally or on purpose, and were deciding to hide the incident from everyone, I suspect that they might be willing to break a few rules lol.

That's sort of the big irony, right? I think that's what the OP was getting at. It's just so funny that the very way they describe themselves--disobedient (DK) and crazy (JM) kinda really do fit. Just not in the way they were trying to frame it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jnblsm]

Wecome ann.in.illinois. I hope you find your answer.

Your post reminds that the 'fishing trip' was to be an extended-family camp out for the weekend. The four adults and Deorr arrived early on Thursday supposedly setting up camp and what not. This is per TBC on facebook. Odd how fast it all fell apart. Did the extended family still show up and help with the search?

""If he's in the water up there he was taken up there. He cannot walk on level ground without falling down. His little, short legs they can't walk up hill, he can't walk on level ground. He would have fallen and if he would have fallen he would have been crying. He didn't get up there by himself," (grandpa) DeOrr Kunz said."

http://legacy.ktvb.com/story/news/l...andfather-believes-boy-was-abducted/30321903/

So, JM and VDK knew that they were a part of a huge planned family camping trip? And others from JM's family had plans to join later?


Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

 

[Blue Skies]

I think SB is being very careful about what he releases. I believe he is not used to so much media attention and is certainly not used to so many picking apart every word he says and assigning meaning to those words. I believe he is dedicated to this case and to finding DeOrr. I believe he is a good sheriff and a good law enforcement officer. He has worked in this rural, remote, wilderness county for a long time.

I have every confidence in SB's ability to solve this case.

Well ok. That was my point exactly. Did you read what I was replying to?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Blue Skies]

my thoughts are the same as yours.

- where are there private homes up there. because that's where they searched, not down mountain in leadore. by their own and LE's admission.
- why would he put it out there that he trespassed, and where did he trespass
- what 'signs' are up in those mountains anyway aside from campground and possibly hunting markers
- who would be so dumb as to 'hide' their child on private property (wait don't answer that) or even mention the thought of it being a possibility...
considering that you have an enormous uncharted national forest in which to do so, at your fingertips (trucktips)...

This is also VERY telling IMO. Why would any parent need to say that they would ignore trespassing signs to find their missing child? What an amazing DAD you are, VDK!!! You would actually trespass to find your missing child? Wow, just wow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kammiemc]

This is also VERY telling IMO. Why would any parent need to say that they would ignore trespassing signs to find their missing child? What an amazing DAD you are, VDK!!! You would actually trespass to find your missing child? Wow, just wow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

^^^^^ for the same reason you would feel the need to bring up in a sorta funny, sarcastic, self-deprecating way that you have "crazy mom status" after your child goes missing. WTH?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 102539]

If VDK was always with LE when he was searching, when did the alleged trespassing occur? Was it when DeOrr first went missing and does that mean there were times early on when the POI's were out "searching" unaccompanied? I assume if someone official was with him, that person would not allow him to trespass onto private property.

On the other hand, I think it's entirely possible that he was just talking up a storm trying to make it sound like he'd left no stone unturned and show how dedicated he has been in searching for his child.

MOO.

Hopefully the FBI will check this interview and will clear his unintentionally leakage (I think, it is).

 

[bessie]

Please continue at Thread #26.