ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #26

[desert-blue]

Dennis DeOrr Kunz's attorney released a document today detailing a lawsuit that was filed today. The attorney, Allen Browning, says in document that the case will seek damages for breach of contract and defamation.

That is from the "Original Story" at the bottom. The updated version (the first part) doesn't indicate a suit was filed. It says that Klein is asking Browning to reconsider filing suit and to have a heart to heart with his client before doing so.

The Idaho Repository does not show that there is any lawsuit against Mr. Klein or Klein Investigations. I guess it's possible the suit was filed in Texas, although I doubt Mr. Browning is licensed to practice law in Texas. I would think jurisdiction would be in Idaho, but I don't know what the contract states. At any rate, nothing has been filed in Idaho, unless it was done very recently (I think the repository is updated daily).

 

[giagreen]

Thanks! That article certainly says that a lawsuit was filed, however, if you open the document that goes with the article, it sounds more like Browning is saying he is going to, not that he has filed.

From page 3 of that document:


It's a threat, is there any evidence that he actually followed through with the lawsuit?

It's confusing for me because it seems like it's diffrent articles all updated and edited into one.


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[ClaireNC]

It's confusing for me because it seems like it's diffrent articles all updated and edited into one.

It is confusing the way it is written, but I don't think a lawsuit was ever actually filed.

 

[Midge Montana]

The lawsuit should be interesting. Truthfully I never expected it to come to fruition, here's why...
I know next to nothing about the Kyron Horman case because there is just SO much out there I feel that if I start digging into it I will never catch up. However, I did read up on it a bit and did see where his real mom filed a suit against the step-mom, but decided to drop it. Her reasoning was that to proceed would mean that police files and such would have to be examined and used in the suit. From what I remember she realized that would hurt the ongoing investigation. Now, I am not even sure if those files could have been accessed for evidence in a civil suit, but that was the reason she gave.
Following that line of thinking, I would love to see this lawsuit against Klein proceed, because that would mean in order to defend himself details of all the nonsense (for lack of a better word) would come to the surface. I think that the parents would be opening a giant can of worms, but hey, go for it!
I wonder, on what grounds are they suing him? Because he said they lied? Because he said that they told many, many versions of the chain of events? Then...they must be suing SB too, right?
This could get interesting, very interesting.
I know that SOMEONE here must know how to find a website that shows lawsuits filed in that county. I know that on other threads we have research gurus who are incredible about accessing legal information. It's all a matter of public record, but you have to know where to look. Sadly, I don't know those things.

 

[kammiemc]

Thanks! That article certainly says that a lawsuit was filed, however, if you open the document that goes with the article, it sounds more like Browning is saying he is going to, not that he has filed.

From page 3 of that document:


It's a threat. Is there any evidence that he actually followed through with the lawsuit?

This makes me so mad. They weren't signing on a PR person or defense atty in Klein. Many people (including myself) never would have donated if that were the case.

IMO, the poor person who signed believed that getting to the truth would fly in the face of the investigation by LE and FBI. I think he truly had faith that the truth would exonerate the parents. It completely backfired and Klein's investigation just bolstered the determinations of LE/FBI.

Now the family wants to sue him because they don't like the truth and they want it to stay hidden. But it's out. There's no putting the cat back inside the bag. Ever. Everyone knows that the parents know where their son is. (Or at least they know that LE and FBI know it, even if they personally refuse to believe the authorities.)

The public funded this PI to find the baby. And that's exactly what Klein is helping do. Not his fault the parents hold the key to finding him.


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[TxJan1971]

That is from the "Original Story" at the bottom. The updated version (the first part) doesn't indicate a suit was filed. It says that Klein is asking Browning to reconsider filing suit and to have a heart to heart with his client before doing so.

The Idaho Repository does not show that there is any lawsuit against Mr. Klein or Klein Investigations. I guess it's possible the suit was filed in Texas, although I doubt Mr. Browning is licensed to practice law in Texas. I would think jurisdiction would be in Idaho, but I don't know what the contract states. At any rate, nothing has been filed in Idaho, unless it was done very recently (I think the repository is updated daily).

I had the same response typed and chose to check on the thread to make sure no one else posted the same thing. I'm glad I checked! I knew someone else would catch this.

Adding...I also recall reading on Nate's FB page some time later that someone asked him if the lawsuit had actually been filed, and Nate replied that it had not.

I'm glad you double checked to make sure the repository wasn't showing any lawsuit filed.

 

[ClaireNC]

That is from the "Original Story" at the bottom. The updated version (the first part) doesn't indicate a suit was filed. It says that Klein is asking Browning to reconsider filing suit and to have a heart to heart with his client before doing so.

The Idaho Repository does not show that there is any lawsuit against Mr. Klein or Klein Investigations. I guess it's possible the suit was filed in Texas, although I doubt Mr. Browning is licensed to practice law in Texas. I would think jurisdiction would be in Idaho, but I don't know what the contract states. At any rate, nothing has been filed in Idaho, unless it was done very recently (I think the repository is updated daily).

Thanks Desert-blue. I couldn't find anything in Texas either. https://jeffersontxclerk.manatron.com/

 

[desert-blue]

Thanks Desert-blue. I couldn't find anything in Texas either. https://jeffersontxclerk.manatron.com/

Thanks for the link to Jefferson County - I didn't realize their court records were online also.

I think it's safe to say no lawsuit has been filed... (unless it was filed today).

 

[TxJan1971]

I think Klein called Browning on this one correctly when he said Browning was merely "bloviating."
http://m.localnews8.com/news/private-investigator-cadaver-dog-proves-there-was-a-death/38307992

 

[cantkeepquietanymore]

Truthfulness is really quite black and white. Either you ARE truthful or else you are NOT truthful.

This has me wondering (I know nothing about how polygraphs work, except what i've read here, so forgive me if this is ignorant)...

Q. Do you know where Deorr is? A. No (but in my head i'm thinking, YES, he has to be on the mountain, because that's were we saw him last)

Q. Did you cause harm to Deorr? A - No (in my head, YES, i wasn't paying attention to him.. and now he's gone!)

Could that affect the results of the polygraph? Feeling responsable for what happened....

 

[ClaireNC]

I think Klein called Browning on this one correctly when he said Browning was merely "bloviating."
http://m.localnews8.com/news/private-investigator-cadaver-dog-proves-there-was-a-death/38307992

Yes! I love that word.

 

[renarde]

That is from the "Original Story" at the bottom. The updated version (the first part) doesn't indicate a suit was filed. It says that Klein is asking Browning to reconsider filing suit and to have a heart to heart with his client before doing so.

The Idaho Repository does not show that there is any lawsuit against Mr. Klein or Klein Investigations. I guess it's possible the suit was filed in Texas, although I doubt Mr. Browning is licensed to practice law in Texas. I would think jurisdiction would be in Idaho, but I don't know what the contract states. At any rate, nothing has been filed in Idaho, unless it was done very recently (I think the repository is updated daily).

A defamation lawsuit wouldn't be a first for Klein, at least not in Texas. This one is my favorite: "Tom Gillam, a Justice of the Peace in Texas, sued blogger and talkshow host Philip Klein for defamation stemming from statements Klein made ... Gillam based his defamation claim on a purported statement by Klein that he engaged in an inappropriate sexual act with a woman at the Port Arthur courthouse. In a statement released by his attorneys and published by the Port Arthur News, Gillam also claims: “Klein further stated in the same article that an employee walked in on Judge Gillam during the alleged act, became upset and left the courthouse in a manner that caused a glass door to break. This story is patently false, malicious and defamatory.”

http://www.dmlp.org/threats/gillam-v-klein

I guess you could say this isn't his first rodeo.

 

[Latestforever]

Sorry all, I was trying to edit my post to correct misspellings and it posted twice-ugh.

 

[LookingForClues]

Thanks for the link to Jefferson County - I didn't realize their court records were online also.

I think it's safe to say no lawsuit has been filed... (unless it was filed today).

There has been so much posturing in this case, it can get confusing as to what has happened.

As a former journalist, I can say that if I was covering this case, I'd write something as soon as a lawsuit was filled. The fact that the only story we've seen is about a lawsuit that "will be filed" means to me that one has not been filed yet. Either that, or all the journalists who have jumped on this case have suddenly dropped the ball. I guess that's not impossible, but I doubt they've all fallen asleep at the wheel. They are all watching those records as closely as we are. They are waiting for the next "breaking story" as much as we are.

 

[ILOKAL]

The only issue I have with this is the huge amount of resources and time, money, etc. spent over these many months that would, in this case, be directly a result of the parents not telling the whole truth about what happened. Even if their initial negligence or responsibility was minute, they have let it go on so long that now it has snowballed and indeed ended up with the two being criminals, in the sense that they would be charged with a host of charges related to the effort and expense spent based on the not totally true story(ies) they have told.

If DeOrr disappeared and no one (including the parents) saw what caused him to disappear, and there is no evidence that would indicate how and why he disappeared, then the parents are not at fault, IMO. Like Vernal said, he left him with a trusted individual and from what we know (or don't know), GGPA didn't see what happened either. And since I do not believe the parents have lied, it is difficult for me to answer questions when the premise is that the parents have lied.

 

[Eloise]

This has me wondering (I know nothing about how polygraphs work, except what i've read here, so forgive me if this is ignorant)...

Q. Do you know where Deorr is? A. No (but in my head i'm thinking, YES, he has to be on the mountain, because that's were we saw him last)

Q. Did you cause harm to Deorr? A - No (in my head, YES, i wasn't paying attention to him.. and now he's gone!)

Could that affect the results of the polygraph? Feeling responsable for what happened....

(modsnip)


But parents who are innocent of legal wrongdoing (including cover-ups, lying to LE, etc etc...) do not make up stories, change their stories when the first one didn't suit, and don't return multiple inconsistent or failed results. That's entirely different to an innocent parent simply feeling terrible guilt over having their back turned when their child walked off. Feeling guilt over that does not turn you into a liar.

 

[gliving]

The blood on the truck is just based on a FB post / rumor by maybe a family member who wasn't even there, right? I don't think it's been mentioned anywhere else so... I can't assume it's true.

01/29/2016
"We don't have any physical evidence at this time," Bowerman says. "We found no clothing and no blood."


http://www.people.com/article/grandfather-missing-idaho-toddler-deorr-kunzsays-kids-innocent

They have to find the baby. The search will be so important.

 

[ILOKAL]

I understand that you put no faith in the polygraph results, and why.
However if you don't believe they lied, how would you explain the 'several different stories' that they have told? I am NOT attacking you for having that opinion, as we are all entitled to our opinion. I am just interested in how you reconcile that.

I just don't consider their "stories" to have changed. Oh, it "could" be said (and it HAS been said) that their stories have changed, but to me they have just described the same story with a variety of details . . . . But the same story, nonetheless, IMO! Scrutinizing their every word and detail in order to conclude they are lying is faulty, IMO. That (to me) just doesn't constitute lying.

 

[kammiemc]

I think if the parents are covering an accidental death or negligence involved in Deorr's disappearance, they should have stuck with their original story--that Deorr wandered off and got lost in the wilderness. GGPA could 'blame' the parents, as he thought Deorr had gone after them, and the parents could 'blame' GGPA as they thought they left Deorr in his care. The whole situation could then be explained by poor communication, but nothing criminal. Just as with Noah Chamberlain, young children can and do disappear from the watchful eye of a caring and trusted adult.

When the parents switched their story to abduction I lost faith in their version of events. Had they claimed Deorr went missing from a park or a mall, well maybe he could have been randomly abducted by a predator, that might have been believable. But statistically, stranger abductions are rare. They make big headlines, so seem to be common threat, but actually account for very few child disappearances. The idea that Deorr was abducted by a stranger from a remote campsite (where there were few others around) with limited road access, from under the nose of his GGPA, while his parents were only a few 100 yards away and IR was also in the vicinity, seems very unlikely.

I wonder if the parents switched their story because they realized that Deorr's body might be found by searchers, and they had hidden it so far away from the campsite that it wouldn't have been possible for him to travel to the location himself by foot AND/OR that the body was buried, so it will be obvious that foul play was involved.

I think what REALLY makes the abduction story bogus (in addition to what you say, which I agree with) is that all the planets would have to align at that remote campsite for a would-be abductor to make himself/herself close enough to pounce right when the "misunderstanding" happens and DeOrr has no one watching him for 4 minutes before it is realized he is missing. Or, wait, was it 10 mins and 50 yards? Or 15 mins? Or 3 hours?


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[ILOKAL]

I understand what you are saying about the difficulty you have in answering. Can I ask you 2 strictly hypothetical questions? And if you aren't able to answer, I understand. I appreciate you explaining where you are right now. I only ask because I'm really interested in what types of information different people require to change one's mind. And not just about this particular case. And not just pertaining to you or others who believe differently than the majority here. It's just something that interests me and I try to apply the same question to myself and my own views in different cases. I've noticed in myself in one particular case (not this one) that I have not come up with anything that will change my opinion of this parent's guilt, even though the case, for all intents and purposes, is resolved, and not in the way I believed it would or should be. It makes me think a lot about if it were just that case, specifically; it's an information gathering exercise in objectivity for me. Since you are very strong in your beliefs about what happened to DeOrr, and it's the opposite of what I think, you're who I'd like to hear from. And if you're not okay with that, no hard feelings. The 2 questions are (and the phrasing is only because of what you've stated you believe...it's not a judgment of right or wrong):

1. What evidence, proof, etc. would you require to change your mind and believe, without a doubt, that the parents (either or both) have been and are not telling the truth?

2. If something did occur to change your mind about this, what would that do to your beliefs about what happened to DeOrr?

If you are able to answer, thanks for playing, lol!



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I don't know how many participating in these discussions have sat on a jury, but to answer your question, I must place myself in the jury box. When ALL the evidence, both direct and circumstantial, has been presented, then, and ONLY then, would I be able to determine one's guilt, providing the evidence lead me to believe, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the parents are, in fact, guilty (of whatever crimes were charged).