ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #27

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I'll be shocked if they purposely killed him. I'm just not getting that vibe. I think either he did run and was missed, it's happened a few times or there was some kind of an accident that DeOrr passed away. Now it's so big with them being suspects, they're petrified to say what happened

I can't wrap my head around an intentional murder.... but, Klein is pointing out a motivation for this. That the parents wanted to be free, and now that JM has married, and VDK has moved out of state... could they be that evil??
 
They wouldn't be the first parents to deliberately kill a child.


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I can't wrap my head around an intentional murder.... but, Klein is pointing out a motivation for this. That the parents wanted to be free, and now that JM has married, and VDK has moved out of state... could they be that evil??

I don't believe it for a minute. They both could have walked away at any time, either set of grand parents would have raised him I'm sure.
 
They wouldn't be the first parents to deliberately kill a child.


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You know what's kind of uncanny, is way back when PI Frank Vilt had the case, and he came out with some bazaar statements along the lines of JM not wanting children... blah, blah, blah and JM sterilizing herself... Gee, maybe he WAS on to something.
 
I don't believe it for a minute. They both could have walked away at any time, either set of grand parents would have raised him I'm sure.

Yes, I agree. Just speculating:)
 
My personal thought is that they managed to confuse IR. I don't think he would cover for JA or VK (though maybe gpa). So either he saw DeOrr there or was led to believe he was there and didn't question, at the time, the fact that he never actually saw him.

I think so too. I think he went along with it and said he saw him before he knew this was going to blow up the way it did. And now it's too late. I'm not even sure he knows anything that would help find DeOrr. As DeOrr's parents have said they didn't even know him before the trip. Why would they trust him? GGP might know more but would he have told IR? I think GGP is good at keeping secrets.
 
I really can't believe it was an intentional homicide. The furthest I'd believe is an accident cover-up. I'd be more than a little annoyed if it's only being called an intentional homicide due to a process of elimination.


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I really can't believe it was an intentional homicide. The furthest I'd believe is an accident cover-up. I'd be more than a little annoyed if it's only being called an intentional homicide due to a process of elimination.


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I think SB is saying "homicide", bc, if an accident happened, there'd be no need to cover it up, right? I mean, DeOrr is no where NEAR the CG (IMO), he hasn't been missed by the many thorough searches by SOR, abduction has been ruled out by human, or animal.... so, what then? Isn't this enough for a grand jury, along with 9 failed polygraphs and all the lies.
 
Wow. :( IF the parents are guilty homicide... For that matter even if it was negligence and accidental.... and if Deorr was never at the campground, why would IR cover for them. I can about halfway believe GGP , but why IR ? Money?

we don't know what he told cops behind closed doors
he could have told them he really didn't see him
no one knows what the cops know
 
we don't know what he told cops behind closed doors
he could have told them he really didn't see him
no one knows what the cops know

I might be misremembering but wasn't there speculation IR was the witness who came forward? I vaguely recall a witness talking to LE and after that things took a turn.
 
I think IR is easily influenced and cares a lot about pleasing his friend, Bob. I also think Isaac may have been duped and didn't fully realize it until later (or maybe still doesn't fully realize it?). They arrived at camp late on Thursday so it would have been very easy for the parents to say that DeOrr was in the back of the truck asleep. It would have gotten dark shortly after they arrived, if it wasn't dark already. If Isaac either slept in, or was out fishing Friday morning, he may not have really even thought much about not seeing the baby. I assume the parents left for the store mid-morning and I think their "where's DeOrr?" theatrics began shortly after they arrived back from the store. That doesn't really leave that much time for Isaac to have seen DeOrr.

If DeOrr was deceased before the camping trip and the whole purpose of the trip was to provide a setting for DeOrr's "disappearance," then it's not unreasonable to think that they put on a show for Isaac and great grandpa. The parents may have asked each other to go check on DeOrr to see if he was still asleep and may have frequently talked about him as if he was there.

It's interesting that great grandpa also dialed 911. We don't know if he got through, but I think he may have been catching on that something wasn't right. After hearing his comments to Klein, I'm pretty certain that he has an idea of what has transpired. I do believe he does have memory issues and that is how the parents were able to pull this off. Also, Trina arrived at the campground quickly and I think she probably protected great grandpa from a lot of interrogation, etc. Sheriff Bowerman admits that the case was treated early on as a missing child and that's where they put their energy and resources.

The big question I have now is whether DeOrr was disposed of during the trip or before the trip. Bowerman's comments make me think that it's the latter.

This case is so sad. The words intentional homicide are hard to digest.
 
I think IR is easily influenced and cares a lot about pleasing his friend, Bob. I also think Isaac may have been duped and didn't fully realize it until later (or maybe still doesn't fully realize it?). They arrived at camp late on Thursday so it would have been very easy for the parents to say that DeOrr was in the back of the truck asleep. It would have gotten dark shortly after they arrived, if it wasn't dark already. If Isaac either slept in, or was out fishing Friday morning, he may not have really even thought much about not seeing the baby. I assume the parents left for the store mid-morning and I think their "where's DeOrr?" theatrics began shortly after they arrived back from the store. That doesn't really leave that much time for Isaac to have seen DeOrr.

If DeOrr was deceased before the camping trip and the whole purpose of the trip was to provide a setting for DeOrr's "disappearance," then it's not unreasonable to think that they put on a show for Isaac and great grandpa. The parents may have asked each other to go check on DeOrr to see if he was still asleep and may have frequently talked about him as if was there.

It's interesting that great grandpa also dialed 911. We don't know if he got through, but I think he may have been catching on that something wasn't right. After hearing his comments to Klein, I'm pretty certain that he has an idea of what has transpired. I do believe he does have memory issues and that is how the parents were able to pull this off. Also, Trina arrived at the campground quickly and I think she probably protected great grandpa from a lot of interrogation, etc. Sheriff Bowerman admits that the case was treated early on as a missing child and that's where they put their energy and resources.

The big question I have now is whether DeOrr was disposed of during the trip or before the trip. Bowerman's comments make me think that it's the latter.

This case is so sad. The words intentional homicide are hard to digest.

Good post desert blue. The way you discribed it, it does seem possible that IR and possible GGP were duped.
 
I'll be shocked if they purposely killed him. I'm just not getting that vibe. I think either he did run and was missed, it's happened a few times or there was some kind of an accident that DeOrr passed away. Now it's so big with them being suspects, they're petrified to say what happened

I think if it wasn't due to negligence / accident, that it was most likely due to someone losing their temper aka child abuse. I wonder if they classify that as "intentional homicide" .

ETA: Re: the possibility that he got lost up there somewhere, no doubt it's possible, not quite sure if I believe it though. I feel sure there must be some evidence to cause everyone involved in the investigation, past and present, to believe otherwise and state it publicly. jmo
 
You know what's kind of uncanny, is way back when PI Frank Vilt had the case, and he came out with some bazaar statements along the lines of JM not wanting children... blah, blah, blah and JM sterilizing herself... Gee, maybe he WAS on to something.

It is uncanny, I was just thinking the same thing.
 
I wonder if VDK will make it to his sons "light up the night" memorial tomorrow?
 
You know what's kind of uncanny, is way back when PI Frank Vilt had the case, and he came out with some bazaar statements along the lines of JM not wanting children... blah, blah, blah and JM sterilizing herself... Gee, maybe he WAS on to something.

Totally agree with this, although I think Vilt said this a few months after he was off the case and it was with Klein (not that it really makes a difference).
 
Totally agree with this, although I think Vilt said this a few months after he was off the case and it was with Klein (not that it really makes a difference).

Nope, it was Vilt. Below is a transcript I copied from thread 17. Interesting to read in retrospect, that NOW the parents are saying
IR was with the GGP when DeOrr went missing.


January 27, 2016

Article Title:
FORMER KUNZ INVESTIGATOR: DEORR KUNZ AND JESSICA MITCHELL LIED ABOUT SON’S DISAPPEARANCE

Video Transcript

(Nate Interview Speaks with Frank Vilt, former family PI)

0:01
Nate Eaton: All right, so Frank, this letter that’s been going around the internet, it looks like you wrote back in September.

0:05
FV: Well, basically I told that because of circumstances beyond my control. I dropped them as clients because of a breach of trust on their part, because they didn’t seem to trust me what I wanted to do. What I mean by that, I wanted to go public with this. I wanted to go national public, and I wanted to advertise we have this little missing boy. We need more eyes and ears to try to find this missing boy. I offered a $20,000 reward, and they did not want me offering the reward. They said that the Sheriff didn’t want it. They said the Sheriff didn’t want to go public, and the Sheriff never mentioned that to me and so… I started finding little…little things that they were inconsistent. Their stories didn’t jive. One was the timeline, and there was some overemphasis of Jessica, uh…stating that she knew the boy was in the campground because she kept looking back – “I kept looking back…I kept looking back…” and it seemed like this was like an overkill. Why would she keep saying this over and over and over again? She wanted to establish that the boy was in the campground. This was after they came back from town and um they saw some fish that Isaac and Bob, the grandfather, caught and so Deorr says, “Well show me where those fish are. Where’d you catch those fish?” And so they went off with Jessica, Deorr and Isaac went off to the creek where they caught fish supposedly, and Jessica kept saying, “I kept looking back to make sure Little Man was there. I kept looking back…kept looking back...” Why did she overemphasize that? And that was kind of one of the things, and she couldn’t answer my question as to why she kept saying that, like she wanted to establish like an alibi that the boy was there, and some other things that were just inconsistent and didn’t want to…were hiding things, like they weren’t coming forth with the truth. The timeline didn’t make sense.

02:05
Nate: When the news came out earlier this week, the Sheriff is naming them as suspects, were you surprised?

02:10
FV: No, I wasn’t surprised at all. When the…there’s a lot of reasons for that. The Sheriff is not going to just make wild accusations. They’re not going to do anything until you have some evidence. There’s always double jeopardy involved, too, so they name them as suspects, and they’re not going to make an arrest. Most law enforcement people aren’t going to make an arrest until they have the evidence to do so because of double jeopardy, because you don’t want to make an arrest and then the charges are dismissed with prejudice, so they want to avoid that. So when they know that they have suspects and they have some good, concrete evidence then they’re going to name them as suspects and move them up from persons of interest. That’s what they did in this case.

02:53
Nate: Why come forward with this information now?

02:57
FV: Well, because they spread the rumor they fired me, uh, and that’s not true, and I got that from the guys making the documentary on missing children. They told me that Deorr and Jessica told them that they dismissed me – that they fired me.

03:12
Nate: And it’s dated September. That’s when you actually sent it to them and mailed it to them?

03:17
FV: Correct! I followed up the same date of my e-mail. I sent them an e-mail the same date, September 25th. Basically, I said the same thing in my e-mail to them.

03:27
Nate: What do you think happened to Deorr?

03:31
FV: Well, I feel there’s uh…one possibility is a … scenario is that uh…it’s only because Jessica giving up custody of her other two kids and because she didn’t really want kids, and when she had Deorr that she was …her tubes were tied and for all intents and purposes sterilized so she could never be reversed. I believe that because of the laws, and Nebraska is an example and Utah, there are adoption laws that as long as the…even though the father may be on the birth certificate, as long as they were not married, the mother could basically have carte blanche to do what she wants to do as far as adopting out her child. So the one possibility was the child was adopted out – it was an out-of-state adoption which was arranged as a cover story so Deorr wouldn’t find out about the … they staged this possible stranger abduction or pre-arranged abduction or there was a problem where the boy is…was injured and could be deceased, so I kind of lean towards looking towards life rather than death. So I just feel there’s a possibility the boy could have been adopted out and didn’t want the father to know, and now because of them being named as suspects the pressure being put on between the two so uh, hopefully one will roll over on the other one, but it just didn’t make sense that this boy is missing , and I want to see a resolution to this case, a favorable resolution, but the more time goes by, it doesn’t look like it’s going to be that way. It could be that there was a homicide.

05:16
Nate: Did they ever pay you for any of your services?

05:20
FV: No. That’s another thing, too. They said that they paid me but they never paid me. Listen, this reminded me of the fact that in the very beginning when I said I’d work for them - cover my expenses and I won’t charge you for my hourly rate, and then Deorr said, “Well, I have a cousin in Utah that has a Go Fund Me and she has $1,900 and we’ll see you get some of that.” Then a few days later I found out that $1,900 was missing. So whoever this person was, this cousin in Utah, had misappropriated the money and used it for their personal use. One of the other reasons I dropped the case, too, I know that Deorr was uh… was pressuring people to donate money. He was getting money from these folks back in Maryland and these Go Fund Me accounts and then I hear there’s other missing money, and he was exploiting people and I just didn’t want to be involved with any of these things where somebody was exploiting money from other people. It just didn’t add up. It didn’t make sense to me. It didn’t seem like they were like normal people would be for their son being missing. It seemed like they were concealing something and hiding something, and their body language, too. They wouldn’t look you…particularly Jessica, would not look you in the eye. She always looked down, looked away, and even when I tried to go eyeball to eyeball with her when I’d talk to her she would look away and not look me straight in the eye and answer my questions.

06:49
Nate: Well, thank you very much,
 
07/08/2016 AT 02:55 PM EDT
http://www.people.com/article/deorr-kunz-father-speaks-out-disappearance-anniversary

DeOrr Kunz's Father Speaks Out Nearly One Year After 2-Year-Old Vanished: 'Now I Don't Have Anybody'

"The past year has been tough for Kunz, he shares:. He and Mitchell have split and haven't spoken for months, and he says Mitchell is now married.

"I don't have my son. I don't have his mother. I don't have a whole lot of reasons to do a whole lot anymore, is my problem," says Kunz, who still lives in Idaho. "I continue to try and keep going, if that makes any sense. Before I lost Jessica, I at least had a reason if things got rough, I had her mentally there to help, to be with each other. Now I don't have anybody. I don't have her. I don't have anybody.""
 
07/08/2016 AT 02:55 PM EDT
http://www.people.com/article/deorr-kunz-father-speaks-out-disappearance-anniversary

DeOrr Kunz's Father Speaks Out Nearly One Year After 2-Year-Old Vanished: 'Now I Don't Have Anybody'

"The past year has been tough for Kunz, he shares:. He and Mitchell have split and haven't spoken for months, and he says Mitchell is now married.

"I don't have my son. I don't have his mother. I don't have a whole lot of reasons to do a whole lot anymore, is my problem," says Kunz, who still lives in Idaho. "I continue to try and keep going, if that makes any sense. Before I lost Jessica, I at least had a reason if things got rough, I had her mentally there to help, to be with each other. Now I don't have anybody. I don't have her. I don't have anybody.""

This is so weird!! It's all about HIM!!! How about DeOrr?
 
This is so weird!! It's all about HIM!!! How about DeOrr?

EXACTLY my thoughts....jeez....How about my poor baby. Is he OK? Is he safe? Does he have food? Is somebody loving him?
 
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