ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #28

[Mickshawn]

Yes J & V ORIGINALLY said they walked to the creek, 50 yds/10/20 minutes away
But then IR said he was on ahead with J, and V and Deorr were lingering behind.
Then another time J & V had rods, walked over a log on the creek, then walked over some stepping stones on the creek and J was casting her line, so
she was fishing at least.
The only chair I heard of was GGP's. I didn't know Deorr had a chair too?

Listen to Jessica's most recent vid on Klein's site = she goes through the latest story almost step by step.

I've just had a thought about these varying stories of the passage from campground to creek. Is it possible they physically rehearsed that bit a few times ?
Maybe trying to work out the most plausible story of discovering Deorr being out of their sight and disappearing ?
That's why it;s never the same story, because they get mixed up with which one they are telling each time.?

I am soooo mixed up now. :thinking:

We are all mixed up because we have hardly any facts at all.......still.

 

[koios]

Here is the ford, only 200 yards from the campfire.
(Marked course of creek is approximate because I can't see through the trees)

 

[Groundwork]

I'm on the fence.

I'm torn between Deorr dying prior to the trip, on the way to camp, or at the campground. I don't think he wandered off. I don't think he was taking by an elephant or a creep in a jeep. I don't think IR had anything to do with the disappearance, but could believe he was covering for someone or was lied to about the events of the day and has stuck with that story for the sake of keeping his friendship with GGP. I don't think GGP had anything to do with the disappearance, but I do think he knows way more than he's admitting to.

My thoughts exactly!

 

[KatieLiz]

Here is the ford, only 200 yards from the campfire.
(Marked course of creek is approximate because I can't see through the trees)

Sorry, I may have missed this- what's the significance of this?

 

[neesaki]

Klein said that two men went into the bar but neither of them were Vernal, so I assume it was only Bob and Isaac. Jessica slipped up and said that when they determined the Silver Dollar was closed, they went BACK to the campground. We have been lead to believe that the stop at the Silver Dollar was made on the way to the campground, so that's a strange thing to say. She tried to correct herself, but her words seemed to indicate that perhaps they had already been to the campground (or maybe another campground? who knows?). The thing with this whole case is that almost all of what we have been told has come from Jessica and Vernal and they are not being truthful. Isaac hasn't given us an account of what occurred on Thursday and Bob hasn't uttered one word. LE won't say anything either. Klein has provided some details but it's like having 10 pieces from a thousand piece puzzle. I'm inclined to disregard most of what Jessica and Vernal have said, though.

Good post desert-blue!

For some reason, this "thought" popped into my head the other day: I wonder if Vernal is paying JMA off (maybe on a weekly basis) to keep quiet......(If she doesn't talk, they are both safe and sound....in his mind, at least).

I wouldn't doubt it one bit, I wouldn't put anything past these ------- .

 

[neesaki]

Yes J & V ORIGINALLY said they walked to the creek, 50 yds/10/20 minutes awayBut then IR said he was on ahead with J, and V and Deorr were lingering behind.Then another time J & V had rods, walked over a log on the creek, then walked over some stepping stones on the creek and J was casting her line, so she was fishing at least.The only chair I heard of was GGP's. I didn't know Deorr had a chair too?Listen to Jessica's most recent vid on Klein's site = she goes through the latest story almost step by step.I've just had a thought about these varying stories of the passage from campground to creek. Is it possible they physically rehearsed that bit a few times ?Maybe trying to work out the most plausible story of discovering Deorr being out of their sight and disappearing ?That's why it;s never the same story, because they get mixed up with which one they are telling each time.?I am soooo mixed up now. :thinking:

Exactly, then according to GGP, little Deorr was sitting by the bank (huh?) playing with his boots. Well, what exactly does he mean by the bank ? Is he referencing the bank down by the creek ? Because that's wayyyyy down , below his immediate vision if he's up in the campground. Unless he was standing at the edge of the ridge looking down.

So does he mean the bank was the ground above where it drops off down to the creek ? Or, does he mean the bank down below, right beside the creek. Because that's what I would consider the bank. Idk, that's always been a question in my mind and has seemed off to me. As in everything with this case. :banghead: But, has anyone else had these same questions ? TIA

 

[neesaki]

Here is the ford, only 200 yards from the campfire.
(Marked course of creek is approximate because I can't see through the trees)

I'm not sure what your point is. Could you explain? TIA

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yes I find it interesting which if your questions got little or no votes. Thanks for doing the poll!

I'm torn on IR- I believe he could have been easily manipulated and led to believe Deorr was actually there even if he wasn't. They very well could have pretended Deorr was sleeping or in the vehicles when IR was around. Then again he COULD be playing along with their story... for any number of reasons. He may "know", or he may have been under the influence of alcohol or drugs and told certain things to say. IR'S involvement, or lack there of, is something I personally go back and forth on. But in my mind, if he's involved in any way he's only an accessory. I do not believe he is in any way actually responsible for this though.

I always go back to Thursday night. Am I correct in remembering that GGP and IR went to a bar in Leadore?

Could that have been GGP's "job", to get IR drunk so that he wouldn't notice that Deorr wasn't around? Did it buy J and V extra time to drive somewhere (burning a lot of Diesel in the truck)?

Man... I just keep remembering piece after piece of information. I feel like my head will eventually explode with this case.

bbm

Why did they (GGF, VK, JMA) need IR to have taken part of the fishing trip at all IF they had to get him drunk ...?? Because a non-family "witness" was important? Because VK/JMA planned to leave the campground in-between times and it had been very implausible to leave alone "a weak old man on oxygen"?
The suggestion to "invite" IR to the fishing trip must have been GGF's idea (or TBC's?) because VK/JMA allegedly didn't know him.
IF the "guest" IR wasn't at least prepared by GGF to tell only vague things about their trip (Thursday, Friday) and little Deorr then it would have been a dangerous venture to have IR on the campground.
So I think they all (4 adults plus probably TBC) knew something fatal had happened to little Deorr (by GGF seen as an "accident", not to be undone) before the trip.

 

[koios]

I'm not sure what your point is. Could you explain? TIA

Sleuthers here-including me were unaware that there is a ford only 200 yards from the campsite, so I posted it in case anyone is interested, no special reason.
The ford is downstream the creek from the campsite.
Vehicles cross the ford to get to the reservoir.

 

[koios]

I know, we've got so many fragments / snippets / rumours, some of which will be true. I can't help thinking the rear bumper has something to do with it. And apologies, I just checked and I think it was Vernals father that posted it - why do they all have to be called DeOrr!

The rear bumper, a wheel arch, and the bed, reportedly.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I would like to know what BB (JMA's ex) is thinking of the whole drama ....!

:thinking:

 

[KatieLiz]

bbm

Why did they (GGF, VK, JMA) need IR to have taken part of the fishing trip at all IF they had to get him drunk ...?? Because a non-family "witness" was important? Because VK/JMA planned to leave the campground in-between times and it had been very implausible to leave alone "a weak old man on oxygen"?
The suggestion to "invite" IR to the fishing trip must have been GGF's idea (or TBC's?) because VK/JMA allegedly didn't know him.
IF the "guest" IR wasn't at least prepared by GGF to tell only vague things about their trip (Thursday, Friday) and little Deorr then it would have been a dangerous venture to have IR on the campground.
So I think they all (4 adults plus probably TBC) knew something fatal had happened to little Deorr (by GGF seen as an "accident", not to be undone) before the trip.

Very plausible. I'm so torn on how many people know the "truth"... or at least parts of it. Is it 3 people? 4? Maybe even 5? I sure hope we find out.

 

[KatieLiz]

I would like to know what BB (JMA's ex) is thinking of the whole drama ....!

:thinking:

Yep!.... him and the new (ex?) Husband. Oh man I hope they have spoke honestly to LE.

 

[neesaki]

Sleuthers here-including me were unaware that there is a ford only 200 yards from the campsite, so I posted it in case anyone is interested, no special reason.
The ford is downstream the creek from the campsite.
Vehicles cross the ford to get to the reservoir.

Oh, gotcha. Thanks.

 

[The Apparition]

I've unsuccessfully tried to find this. It was either Klein or Sheriff B in an interview. Does anyone know what happened to the transcript of the FB interview with Klein. There's one somewhere because I actually did that one. Just looked on media thread and transcripts thread, maybe I'm just missing it.

I'm not the only one who remembers that statement am I ? It was something like "extraneous issues" having to do with IR and GGP.

Overall I'm definitely on "team Klein" but let's be honest he is the master of the malaprop. I have read/heard many things from him and he seems like he mixes up words pretty frequently. It is fitting I guess that the only person giving "us" any decent information is prone to randomly saying things that are puzzling at best. Vernal also does the same thing but I don't hold him to quite as high a standard (it's really hard to lie and make sense at the same time).

 

[neesaki]

Overall I'm definitely on "team Klein" but let's be honest he is the master of the malaprop. I have read/heard many things from him and he seems like he mixes up words pretty frequently. It is fitting I guess that the only person giving "us" any decent information is prone to randomly saying things that are puzzling at best. Vernal also does the same thing but I don't hold him to quite as high a standard (it's really hard to lie and make sense at the same time).

Funny, I started to post something similar earlier - I think he used the wrong word for what he was trying to convey, that's why it's so confusing. I hate to have to admit though that I had to look up the definition of "malaprop". I'm always learning something new hear, LOL. Thanks Apparition.

 

[amateur sleuth]

sorry to sound so ignorant but is the correct word ford or fjord? The picture I saw did not look like a fjord.

 

[Lilibet]

sorry to sound so ignorant but is the correct word ford or fjord? The picture I saw did not look like a fjord.

It's never ignorant to ask. It's "ford"--(noun) a shallow place in a creek or river where you can cross on foot or in a vehicle. (Verb) to cross a river in a shallow place.

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/ford

 

[amateur sleuth]

Thanks Lilbeth. I googled ford but only got the car.

 

[dalsglen]

Shame the searches weren't better organised over the summer. If I was the parents, and I felt sure he was on that mountain, I'd have been up there (with friends and professional search parties) every moment I could.

The fact that funds were raised to engage a private detective rather than paying for search teams and publicity speaks volumes to me.

Well Cags, imo what any sane parent would do is set up permanent camp there to search, snow or no snow.

There is no way in hell you woulda got me tottering back home to find a new man without one of my kiddies.... nevermind talking several versions of complete crap.

Sure its been talked about before, but someone remind me what the likely sentence would have been had Deorr died from an accident due to their neglect and they had called 911 straight away.