ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #29

[neesaki]

A child was noticed to be missing, presumably wandered off. What hypothetically were the two greatest dangers facing a child who had wandered off?
1. Falling into creek and drowning. However it is reported that the creek was extensively searched and nothing found.
2. Vehicle driven at high speed while looking at a mobile phone.
One might think of other dangers, like accidentally falling into the vault toilet tank, or an attack by a mountain lion or bear, but I think 1 and 2 above probably cover the major physical risks?

The creek isn't deep, they searched extensively so he would have been found if there. If a vehicle accident why cover it up? jmo

 

[neesaki]

The reservoir is upstream from the campsite. If he fell in the creek anywhere near the campsite, he would have been swept downstream towards the ford (opposite direction to the reservoir),

You actually think they wouldn't have found him in the ford ? Really?

 

[desert-blue]

The reservoir is upstream from the campsite. If he fell in the creek anywhere near the campsite, he would have been swept downstream towards the ford (opposite direction to the reservoir),

True, but children apparently tend to go uphill when they wander and there are also roads and paths that lead to the reservoir and upper campground. At the time, it seemed very plausible to me that DeOrr might have headed up towards the reservoir and then drowned. My thoughts on the creek are that if he fell into it, he would have been found right away. The creek is narrow and shallow and full of debris. I don't believe there is any way he would have been swept downstream any substantial distance. I think his body would have been recovered very close to where he fell in. MOO.

 

[koios]

True, but children apparently tend to go uphill when they wander and there are also roads and paths that lead to the reservoir and upper campground. At the time, it seemed very plausible to me that DeOrr might have headed up towards the reservoir and then drowned. My thoughts on the creek are that if he fell into it, he would have been found right away. The creek is narrow and shallow and full of debris. I don't believe there is any way he would have been swept downstream any substantial distance. I think his body would have been recovered very close to where he fell in. MOO.

From one of KIC's interviews, he saw J and V and I leaving, therefore he knew what direction they went, so after that if he was at the campsite and decided to wander, probably he went in the direction he had seen them go? But also (from an interview) Missy the dog was not tied up, and had been with J and V at the creek but left there, so it's possible he went off in another direction playing with her?

 

[desert-blue]

From one of KIC's interviews, he saw J and V and I leaving, therefore he knew what direction they went, so after that if he was at the campsite and decided to wander, probably he went in the direction he had seen them go? But also (from an interview) Missy the dog was not tied up, and had been with J and V at the creek but left there, so it's possible he went off in another direction playing with her?

I guess anything is possible, but it's my opinion that DeOrr likely wasn't at the campground and therefore he didn't wander off in any direction. I don't believe his parents' stories anymore.

 

[KatieLiz]

From one of KIC's interviews, he saw J and V and I leaving, therefore he knew what direction they went, so after that if he was at the campsite and decided to wander, probably he went in the direction he had seen them go? But also (from an interview) Missy the dog was not tied up, and had been with J and V at the creek but left there, so it's possible he went off in another direction playing with her?

I'm just trying to understand your thoughts on this all so that i can better understand your posts.

If you dont mind my asking, do you believe:
A) Deorr wandered and was fatally injured on his own, and one or more of the present adults found and disposed of him.
B) He wandered and is out there somewhere and none of the 4 adults know.
C) he died accidentally but due to one of the adults actions and was disposed of by only one of them. (Either before the campground or at it)
D) he died either at the campground or before and more than one of the adults is responsible and/or involved.
E) other?

Not trying to call you out or anything like that, I'm just trying to understand where people are coming from so that I know what I'm responding to.

 

[The Apparition]

I guess anything is possible, but it's my opinion that DeOrr likely wasn't at the campground and therefore he didn't wander off in any direction. I don't believe his parents' stories anymore.

Yes! LE and Klein have given up on the campground entirely, it's possible they are wrong but only the "less than truthful" suspects seem to think Deorr is up there. Funny how that works out. I think on the last search the family found a kids dvd and a Tootsie Roll wrapper so I'm going to hold out for something more concrete before I believe the narrative they are spinning. It's a shame winter is moving in now if only the family had more time to search up on the mountain for clues about their missing son, oh well at least it's ski season!

 

[desert-blue]

Yes! LE and Klein have given up on the campground entirely, it's possible they are wrong but only the "less than truthful" suspects seem to think Deorr is up there. Funny how that works out. I think on the last search the family found a kids dvd and a Tootsie Roll wrapper so I'm going to hold out for something more concrete before I believe the narrative they are spinning. It's a shame winter is moving in now if only the family had more time to search up on the mountain for clues about their missing son, oh well at least it's ski season!

I'm not too inclined to put much stock in what they're spinning either. If one believes that the parents are responsible for his death and cover-up then it's preposterous to think they'd lead the public or LE anywhere close to anything pertinent. I think the answers lie in their movements earlier in the week. I feel like Wednesday and Thursday are crucial. I wish we knew of the last non-family sighting of DeOrr.... mostly, I hope progress is still being made behind the scenes.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Just revisited my Quick Poll from the last thread (starting #1301) about who we think is in the know about DeOrr...

Jessica 38
Vernal 36
Grandpa 30
Isaac 3
Other family 12

Also a unanimous vote for "DeOrr died before the trip" (28) compared to "he died at the campground" (0) which I must say I'm pretty surprised by. When/why were minds changed?

I think my mind changed when I got the impression nobody of 4 (four!!) adults were able to tell how the day before campground (Thursday) was shaped. My mind changed also when I heard of things which had been found in the abandoned ex-home of the parents.

Btw: "Greaving" parents who still pretend to search their "lost" little son left behind his toy cars, his favourite jacket at the home?? - They seem to have been verrry glad when they finally could leave the home and once more close a chapter of their life.
Btw also: No money to pay their bills and rent (at least JMA's "illness" over years: not paying bills) but giving their credit card to someone for buing stuff?? Who does that? And who is like-hearted enough to use the credit card of folks who always had a money problem??

 

[neesaki]

Yes! LE and Klein have given up on the campground entirely, it's possible they are wrong but only the "less than truthful" suspects seem to think Deorr is up there. Funny how that works out. I think on the last search the family found a kids dvd and a Tootsie Roll wrapper so I'm going to hold out for something more concrete before I believe the narrative they are spinning. It's a shame winter is moving in now if only the family had more time to search up on the mountain for clues about their missing son, oh well at least it's ski season!

I'm surprised they didn't plant that other camo jacket and a hot wheels car or two out there, I guess they weren't thinking straight. Then again, they also think he was abducted yet according to Vilt as well as shown by their own actions, aren't interested in a reward or a national hotline to help find him.

Yes, it would have been nice if they had spent the summer months searching whenever the campground was opened back up, ya know, while there's no snow on the ground. Even when the campground area was closed off they probably could have searched further out any time they wanted since it's possible he could be outside LE's search area. Far outside, if someone put him there. I doubt LE would have minded that a bit.

 

[VioletFire]

The reservoir is upstream from the campsite. If he fell in the creek anywhere near the campsite, he would have been swept downstream towards the ford (opposite direction to the reservoir),

Hi everyone!! I have lurked for ages, and finally decided to create an account!
Anyhoo, i believe that the creek actually flows into the resevoir, not out of it.

 

[ZooSleuth]

Hi everyone!! I have lurked for ages, and finally decided to create an account!
Anyhoo, i believe that the creek actually flows into the resevoir, not out of it.

It flows into the reservoir from above the reservoir but flows out of the reservoir by the campground. If he fell in by the campground he would move away from the reservoir.

 

[VioletFire]

Oh, good to know. The only video i noticed was in an EIN video.

 

[FinallyRegistered]

The stories that make up any timeline are from the mouths of JA, DVK, GGP, IR, and JA's mom.

Klein says the timeline is a fraud.

I want to know from someone (besides them) who saw Deorr prior to Thursday. The weekend before that one was July 4th. Did something happen then and this is all a rouse? Have any pictures from the July 4th weekend ever surfaced? Weren't they camping somewhere then as well?

 

[KatieLiz]

The stories that make up any timeline are from the mouths of JA, DVK, GGP, IR, and JA's mom.

Klein says the timeline is a fraud.

I want to know from someone (besides them) who saw Deorr prior to Thursday. The weekend before that one was July 4th. Did something happen then and this is all a rouse? Have any pictures from the July 4th weekend ever surfaced? Weren't they camping somewhere then as well?

Exactly. Me too. Someone who isnt family. A store security camera would be great. Even a neighbour who can definitively say yes I saw Deorr Jr and Jessica on Monday. Or we heard Deorr giggling and playing on Wednesday. SOMETHING... anything.... but as far as we know, nothing. Just Trina... and Isaac.

I'm putting my faith in LE and hoping that this is taking so long because they are doing a thorough job. This is a modern world and there are security cameras everywhere. I hope they are combing through every security camera in Idaho Falls near their home and their grocery store, etc. Every camera en route to Leadore. I would love to see them be able to retrace their steps several days in advance and see when the last time Deorr was really with them.

 

[misty48]

Exactly. Me too. Someone who isnt family. A store security camera would be great. Even a neighbour who can definitively say yes I saw Deorr Jr and Jessica on Monday. Or we heard Deorr giggling and playing on Wednesday. SOMETHING... anything.... but as far as we know, nothing. Just Trina... and Isaac.

I'm putting my faith in LE and hoping that this is taking so long because they are doing a thorough job. This is a modern world and there are security cameras everywhere. I hope they are combing through every security camera in Idaho Falls near their home and their grocery store, etc. Every camera en route to Leadore. I would love to see them be able to retrace their steps several days in advance and see when the last time Deorr was really with them.

It was reported that other family members were due to join the group of 5 at the weekend. How does that arrangement fit in with theories Deorr didn't even go on the trip?

 

[ZooSleuth]

It was reported that other family members were due to join the group of 5 at the weekend. How does that arrangement fit in with theories Deorr didn't even go on the trip?

Has anybody besides TBC confirmed this?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

It was reported that other family members were due to join the group of 5 at the weekend. How does that arrangement fit in with theories Deorr didn't even go on the trip?

A good point

Has anybody besides TBC confirmed this?

Also a good point

ARRGGGHHH, I just wish something would give, one way or the other....

 

[misty48]

Has anybody besides TBC confirmed this?

IMO if there was any doubt about this particular aspect it would have featured prominently in Klein's outpourings.

 

[KatieLiz]

It was reported that other family members were due to join the group of 5 at the weekend. How does that arrangement fit in with theories Deorr didn't even go on the trip?

Umm because nothing they have said so far can be proven to be true so how do we know that is true as well? They could have made it up. Family could be going along with the story. Or that plan could have been all part of the main narrative- make everyone think there would be a weekend trip even though J and V knew it wouldn't happen once they made their 911 call. Who was supposed to go.up? TBC and her husband? Yeah I don't trust that as reliable information.

Another possibility is that they had planned for the family to come that weekend and Deorr's death was unplanned and happened in the day or two before or on the way to camp or when they just arrived.

We are developing theories to speculate on based on the info we know. We know the timeline has been moved at least twice. We know the only person, other than the 4 camping adults, who has seen Deorr between Wednesday and Friday appears to be Trina. And we don't know of any other independent sightings of Deorr. So I think it's safe to speculate that he may have never arrived to camp.

I think it is logical to ask who was the last non family member or friend to observe this child.healthy and alive.