ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #29

[neesaki]

It was reported that other family members were due to join the group of 5 at the weekend. How does that arrangement fit in with theories Deorr didn't even go on the trip?

I don't believe Deorrs death was ever planned. If he is deceased, IJMO that it was due to either a highly negligent accident or physical child abuse.
If something they did caused his death it was most likely after plans for the trip had been made. Either that, or TBC isn't being truthful. JMO.

 

[desert-blue]

I don't believe Deorrs death was ever planned. If he is deceased, IJMO that it was due to either a highly negligent accident or physical child abuse.
If something they did caused his death it was most likely after plans for the trip had been made. Either that, or TBC isn't being truthful. JMO.

BBM: She was also given a polygraph that was inconclusive "due to fatigue." I don't trust her. MOO.

 

[KatieLiz]

BBM: She was also given a polygraph that was inconclusive "due to fatigue." I don't trust her. MOO.

Exactly. Remove her from the story and look where the gaps are.

 

[mommylicious]

It was reported that other family members were due to join the group of 5 at the weekend. How does that arrangement fit in with theories Deorr didn't even go on the trip?

I'm not sure how this causes conflict with what we know? They reported the child missing prior to the arrival or supposed anticipated arrival of other family members. Something may have happened to DeOrr prior to the trip and the only thing that family arriving over the weekend would impact is shortening the amount of time to dispose of the body - so instead of having until Sunday (for example) they'd have had to take care of things before family arrived.

 

[misty48]

I'm not sure how this causes conflict with what we know? They reported the child missing prior to the arrival or supposed anticipated arrival of other family members. Something may have happened to DeOrr prior to the trip and the only thing that family arriving over the weekend would impact is shortening the amount of time to dispose of the body - so instead of having until Sunday (for example) they'd have had to take care of things before family arrived.

Had something happened to Deorr prior to the trip, the parents would have faced a dilemma - pull out of the camping trip or try to explain the absence of Deorr to GGP. Had they decided to take a lifeless body with them, a huge assumption would have been made that the other 2 campers would be totally complicit with the situation. However, JMA/VK reportedly had never met IR, so imo it would be unreasonable for them to assume he would comply.

 

[koios]

You actually think they wouldn't have found him in the ford ? Really?

I was just pointing out that if a child fell into the creek near the campsite, the child would travel downstream towards the ford, unless snagged up on rocks or branches before reaching the ford.
IR states in an interview that the reason V got into truck and drove it was to search. This is a poor search method because walking would be much better, an adult walking to search could easily overtake the slower walking speed of a wandered child, and would be able to carefully check in vegetation rather than speeding through it in a truck. Also the only place on the creek reachable and searchable from the driver's seat of a truck is the ford.

 

[koios]

I don't trust polygraphs. In many countries they are barely used because of concerns about their reliability. I am proceeding on the assumption that the child was alive and well and at the campsite when I and V and J went off to look at a fishing place.

 

[koios]

From the photos I have seen of the trailer I assume to be Bob's, it is quite small - perhaps 15 feet, give or take a few feet.

I don't know if you are looking at the same images as me desert-blue but I see a 17T which is 17 feet, and a huge much longer one, and from interviews I think the short one must be the one that was at the campsite.
Reportedly both were later cleared by KIC

 

[Onebest]

I was just pointing out that if a child fell into the creek near the campsite, the child would travel downstream towards the ford, unless snagged up on rocks or branches before reaching the ford.
IR states in an interview that the reason V got into truck and drove it was to search. This is a poor search method because walking would be much better, an adult walking to search could easily overtake the slower walking speed of a wandered child, and would be able to carefully check in vegetation rather than speeding through it in a truck. Also the only place on the creek reachable and searchable from the driver's seat of a truck is the ford.

VK said he hauled up the road to get cell phone reception, not look for baby Deoor.

Full unedited interview with parents from July 13: UNEDITED INTERVIEW: Parents of Missing Idaho Toddler Speak Out [video=youtube;mwM1oG3z358]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM1oG3z358[/video]

 

[KatieLiz]

I don't trust polygraphs. In many countries they are barely used because of concerns about their reliability. I am proceeding on the assumption that the child was alive and well and at the campsite when I and V and J went off to look at a fishing place.

Then you are proceeding on a different assumption than LE are, and theirs is based on evidence.

 

[neesaki]

I was just pointing out that if a child fell into the creek near the campsite, the child would travel downstream towards the ford, unless snagged up on rocks or branches before reaching the ford.
IR states in an interview that the reason V got into truck and drove it was to search. This is a poor search method because walking would be much better, an adult walking to search could easily overtake the slower walking speed of a wandered child, and would be able to carefully check in vegetation rather than speeding through it in a truck. Also the only place on the creek reachable and searchable from the driver's seat of a truck is the ford.

Of course. But it would have been more than negligent of them if they hadn't searched the ford, as they searched the creek and the reservoir and the entire area. Why would they ignore that one little ford? I seriously doubt it. jmo

 

[koios]

VK said he hauled up the road to get cell phone reception, not look for baby Deoor.

Full unedited interview with parents from July 13: UNEDITED INTERVIEW: Parents of Missing Idaho Toddler Speak Out [video=youtube;mwM1oG3z358]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM1oG3z358[/video]

Reason for use of truck from IR perspective possibly unaware of the mobile reception issue https://youtu.be/hrzdY1ck3Zk?t=4m29s

 

[Onebest]

Reason for use of truck from IR perspective possibly unaware of the mobile reception issue https://youtu.be/hrzdY1ck3Zk?t=4m29s

Yup....and I agree, it actually has just as much probability of being true as VK's rendition although the two things dont go together ie: hauling for reception AND hauling looking for a tiny baby.

 

[desert-blue]

I don't know if you are looking at the same images as me desert-blue but I see a 17T which is 17 feet, and a huge much longer one, and from interviews I think the short one must be the one that was at the campsite.
Reportedly both were later cleared by KIC

If one is 17 feet, I would assume that is the one that they took on the camping trip. I don't recall seeing "17T" on the trailer, but if you saw that, then yes, that's probably the one.

 

[amateur sleuth]

Umm because nothing they have said so far can be proven to be true so how do we know that is true as well? They could have made it up. Family could be going along with the story. Or that plan could have been all part of the main narrative- make everyone think there would be a weekend trip even though J and V knew it wouldn't happen once they made their 911 call. Who was supposed to go.up? TBC and her husband? Yeah I don't trust that as reliable information.

Another possibility is that they had planned for the family to come that weekend and Deorr's death was unplanned and happened in the day or two before or on the way to camp or when they just arrived.

We are developing theories to speculate on based on the info we know. We know the timeline has been moved at least twice. We know the only person, other than the 4 camping adults, who has seen Deorr between Wednesday and Friday appears to be Trina. And we don't know of any other independent sightings of Deorr. So I think it's safe to speculate that he may have never arrived to camp.

I think it is logical to ask who was the last non family member or friend to observe this child.healthy and alive.

Thank you so much for this post. I do not believe a SINGLE word that Trina, Vernal, Jessica, great Grandpapa or Issac have said!!!!!!! IMO, whatever happened to DeOrr, happened shortly before they threw together this camping trip. And someone, please correct me if I am wrong.......wasn't the "camping trip" that was originally planned for Grandpapa and Issac moved up from the originally planned date(s). And doesn't Vernal hate camping/fishing? and why did Trina ask Jessica to go up with grandpapa and Issac to keep an eye on him until they showed up a couple days later? Couldn't Issac, his most bestest buddy, keep an eye on him? Vernal and Jessica did say that DeOrr was left with a TRUSTED adult...so whether it was grandpapa or Issac, at least one of them was considered aTRUSTED adult and would not need jessica or vernal to keep an eye on grandpapa.

 

[koios]

Yup....and I agree, it actually has just as much probability of being true as VK's rendition although the two things dont go together ie: hauling for reception AND hauling looking for a tiny baby.

Possibly both reasons are true. If you were "hauling it" down a dirt track to get a mobile signal wouldn't you at the same time have your eyes continuously attentive to the sagebrush either side of the dirt track looking for the child?

 

[koios]

If one is 17 feet, I would assume that is the one that they took on the camping trip. I don't recall seeing "17T" on the trailer, but if you saw that, then yes, that's probably the one.

Blurred but readable logos identify the manufacturer, then internet image searches identify which model by matching the size and features.

 

[DatelineFan]

Possibly both reasons are true. If you were "hauling it" down a dirt track to get a mobile signal wouldn't you at the same time have your eyes continuously attentive to the sagebrush either side of the dirt track looking for the child?

I wouldn't "haul" down the road in a big truck looking for a small child. That's a great way to accidentally run over him.

 

[desert-blue]

Possibly both reasons are true. If you were "hauling it" down a dirt track to get a mobile signal wouldn't you at the same time have your eyes continuously attentive to the sagebrush either side of the dirt track looking for the child?

I might or you might, but Vernal didn't say that he was. He said he was hauling in his truck to get cell service since he only had one bar and he didn't think that would cut it. At least that's what I remember. I don't remember hearing anything that would indicate he was simultaneously looking for his son or that he was concerned about accidentally running into him with the truck. Most likely, that is because DeOrr wasn't at the campground. MOO.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I might or you might, but Vernal didn't say that he was. He said he was hauling in his truck to get cell service since he only had one bar and he didn't think that would cut it. At least that's what I remember. I don't remember hearing anything that would indicate he was simultaneously looking for his son or that he was concerned about accidentally running into him with the truck. Most likely, that is because DeOrr wasn't at the campground. MOO.

bbm

:thumb: No longer at the campground, not alive at the campground or never been at the campground. - If I think about: that's a BIG mistake in his story!