ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #9

[haven71]

I agree that the sheriff referring to the "crime scene" was probably a Freudian slip.

Then again, how often is the sheriff interviewed and for what kinds of cases? I would just think the high profile cases, which are the ones that usually involve a major crime. He's probably used to making statements to the public using the words "crime scene." I know I slip my words up pretty often, kinda thinking ahead of myself and absentmindedly saying something incorrectly in the rush to get to the next thought.

 

[Cardinal47]

I hope this takes you to it. Let me know. Click on Satellite.
http://itouchmap.com/?d=392147&s=ID&f=reservoir

Yes got it...thank you!

 

[kammiemc]

So day one, the 2 tracker dogs went from the campground to the reservoir and back.

Then later when they brought in cadaver dogs, they found interest in the reservoir.

When were the cremains dumped? If the first dogs tracked to the reservoir and the cremains had not yet been dumped, then I think they had reason.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

I was thinking that too. I'm trying to think of scenario that would make sense--maybe the toddler did go with someone to the reservoir and then back to the camp, or maybe he drowned there and was brought back to the camp. (I don't know the precision of tracking dogs, but it seems like they would have followed his scent if he went anywhere other than the reservoir.) Also, if the mom and dad went to the reservoir, could have the dog been following DeOrr's scent on them?
Fingers crossed for the FBI.

 

[babyback]

<modsnip>

Meanwhile, Bowerman said DeOrr's parents and the great-grandfather were questioned multiple times by Lemhi detectives.

"Those three have been very cooperative," Bowerman said. "They&#8217;ve given us everything we ask for and I feel real good about the parents and the grandfather."

Ironically perhaps, when talking about the friend he used the truthful twice, while nodding his head yes.&#8220;I&#8217;m not getting any feeling that he&#8217;s not being truthful,&#8221; Bowerman said. &#8220;He&#8217;s come up to the area on a second occasion with me, and I think he&#8217;s been very truthful and I appreciate his help.&#8221;

&#8220;We&#8217;ve given the FBI lots of items to analyze behaviorally and we&#8217;ve given them some physical evidence.&#8221;

Hopefully, this will help rule people in or out and provide direction. I wonder if the 6 to 8 weeks is more to get results back from physical evidence testing more so then behavioral or reviewing polys?

&#8220;We&#8217;ve given the FBI lots of items to analyze behaviorally and we&#8217;ve given them some physical evidence.&#8221;

Behaviorally speaking, we have noticed things about at least 3 parties. GGP excluded because we haven't actually SEEN him. And those behaviors are from interviews show to us. I'm sure that the Sheriff has seen more of the behaviors that he's turned over.

And, as far as physical evidence, what would those things be? Vehicles, clothing, sippy cup, any other items that would have been handled by DeOrr. It's surprising to me, that mom was allowed to have the blankie. JMHO

 

[Cardinal47]

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/16/search-deorr-lemhi-no-trace/30262877/

Listen to this video describing how the floor of the reservoir is full of deep silt. I guess one can see to the bottom easily but under that is a deep muddy mess.

Well with that said I am doing a 180 on what I think happened to little DeOrr.

 

[babyback]

<modsnip>

Meanwhile, Bowerman said DeOrr's parents and the great-grandfather were questioned multiple times by Lemhi detectives.

"Those three have been very cooperative," Bowerman said. "They’ve given us everything we ask for and I feel real good about the parents and the grandfather."

Ironically perhaps, when talking about the friend he used the truthful twice, while nodding his head yes.“I’m not getting any feeling that he’s not being truthful,” Bowerman said. “He’s come up to the area on a second occasion with me, and I think he’s been very truthful and I appreciate his help.”

“We’ve given the FBI lots of items to analyze behaviorally and we’ve given them some physical evidence.”

Hopefully, this will help rule people in or out and provide direction. I wonder if the 6 to 8 weeks is more to get results back from physical evidence testing more so then behavioral or reviewing polys?

“We’ve given the FBI lots of items to analyze behaviorally and we’ve given them some physical evidence.”

Behaviorally speaking, we have noticed things about at least 3 parties. GGP excluded because we haven't actually SEEN him. And those behaviors are from interviews shown to us. I'm sure that the Sheriff has seen more of the behaviors that he's turned over.

And, as far as physical evidence, what would those things be? Vehicles, clothing, sippy cup, any other items that would have been handled by DeOrr. It's surprising to me, that mom was allowed to have the blankie. JMHO

 

[*JMO*]

Not only that, but if you look at those pics I posted of what's down over that bank, had he fallen, he wouldn't have gone directly into the water, he probably would have been hurt and crying because he had really hurt himself.

I am surprised that little De'orr could even manage to maneuver along the bank if the boots are as oversized as reports have made it sound like. Even in well fitting boots, a toddler would probably be clumsy in boots. Yet, apparently the boots did not fall off of him as he toddled on that terrain. That seems really strange to me.

 

[katydid23]

Well with that said I am doing a 180 on what I think happened to little DeOrr.

I am wondering how he could have gotten all the way to the reservoir in big clonky boots and not be seen by anyone. That is quite a hike up a very visible trail. And he supposedly went over the bank first. Why didn't any of the 3 people down there see him before he could make it to the reservoir?

After 10 minutes when his parents found him to be missing, didnt they immediately go to the water areas first?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

It's after midnight, time for bed, please try not to let thread #9 run into too many pages overnight. Or if someone could post a Jerry style "final thoughts" summary before you all go to sleep that would be great, thanks

 

[Cardinal47]

Well with that said I am doing a 180 on what I think happened to little DeOrr.

Deep silt. They can't find anything in that stuff. If it's a lake that has homes on it they come in with the Army Corp of Engineers and dredge it. They could walk right by somebody, especially a child, on the bottom and walk on by.

They were pretty confident in the lake and then the cremains came into play. Going back to the lake and the dogs that's where they went..back and forth from the campground to the reservoir.

I think he is in there and I think they need to regroup and search that whole reservoir again.

Since they can find NO sign of him anywhere that makes sense he could make it there in his too big boots and it's not that far. Did somebody say about 200 ft from the campground to the reservoir?

I think he was missing a little bit longer than we have been led to believe.

MOO

 

[Cardinal47]

Kinda weird how at the very beginning of the interview, the sheriff says Deorr disappeared on Friday, July 10th, which we all know. But then when asked when they arrived, he said it was Thursday, June 9th (which we also know) when it was just starting to get dark outside. Then he says the family went to the store with Deorr...yet he was still talking about Thursday night, and made no attempt to clarify that the trip was actually made on Friday. Probably just an oversight.

Honestly no disrespect meant I think this is kind of a Barney Fife operation. They are used to small things happening. Nothing like this.

The sheriff said in his interview his men were out searching and he was patrolling the streets. I would bet this is a four man operation and I want to believe they are doing the best they can with what they have to work with.

 

[Dee10]

One thing that bothers me is what the Sheriff said at the very beginning of the uncut version regarding the beginning of the timeline. Note (my) transcribing, the Sheriff said "the family from what I understand, that we learned during the investigation arrived the evening prior to July 10th."
Personally, I thought it was a press issue but now I wonder when did authorities actually learn this? This wasn't corrected for such a long time that I have to wonder why?

[video=youtube;FV-h82eVQ1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV-h82eVQ1M&list=PLHxHvR1OFyNDkpZrKmKgKJCsujxaoOlUU[/video] - First few seconds

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

I think I had a double post there, so sorry.

No biggie. It happens. You can delete one if you want using the edit button.

 

[1&2&3]

The important fact the sheriff stated in the interview is that the parents went to the campground on Thursday evening. The PI mentioned it previously and it was discussed here, however, I take it as official when the sheriff says it.

Why, oh why, was this completely not mentioned originally? This is a key to me!

The story as first told that they arrived at campsite on Friday, got back in truck and drove that horrible road, two hour round trip, back to store they just passed NEVER made sense to many of us! Now, over a month later we learn, oh, by the way, we arrived the evening before! Okay, so what else in your story is not quite the full story?

Might it be that little 10 minute hike you took after arriving that GGF was looking after Deorr? How long were you REALLY gone? That explanation never made sense to me either. What did you really do? When is the real story on that going to come out?

Sorry mods, but as you can see, we weren't told the correct day of arrival so what else is not correct? Something is very wrong in the way this story has been related. Is there a reason for that? When parents start their journey of this missing child with an incorrect day of arrival, we would be remiss not to question what else has been left out or not told.
They could have corrected their mistake upon realizing it, however, this was not done.

It appears to me that as time passes, the story takes new twists and turns. Given enough time, more new clues will come out, and little Deorr will be found. The questions we all have been asking from day one such as were there two vehicles, did they camp in tents or a camper, etc., there is a major reason why these basic questions are not being answered. Think about it. . . Why is everything such a secret?

 

[haven71]

My mind has been racing today, thinking of all kinds of possibilities. A few weeks ago, they may have seemed ridiculous, but now...nothing can be ruled out.

I notice some people talking about how Deorr would NOT have gone down such a steep embankment, I think the sheriff even mentioned it. In my mind, no, he probably would not have gone willingly. But he sure could've fallen down unwillingly. And hit his head on a rock, so quickly that he didn't even have time to cry out. Then, the parents find him...and hey, maybe they need an EMT bag, pronto. What if they couldn't resuscitate him, and if so, why not call 911 about the accident? What motive could they possibly have, it would have to be something serious would come to light which wasn't worth the risk. I've read that child abusers typically hurt children on places that are not obvious, places covered by clothing, like legs and on torsos. Could the parent(s) be worried about what could be found on a postmortem exam?

What a horrible thought.

 

[JLSChook]

0ver 8000 posts in 38 days ... lets be practical and logical for a minute

Abductions are rare , and they are usually done by family members disputing custody issues, none of which apply to the Kunz situation

Abduction by strangers is extremely rare , and those type of kidnappers do not lurk in a remote forest campsite where family is within 50 feet and several people have a view of the only road in or out.

If DeOrr climbed the steep hill thru the forest up to the other road , and a random stranger-kidnapper just happened to be there at the exact time is about as possible as a Sasquatch harvesting blonde boys for a Friday barbecue

The child wandered away from adult supervision and is most likely still there somewhere . Many children go missing in campgrounds , and most often they are 2 to 3 year olds , and the ones that are found traveled surprisingly long distances from where they were last seen

Search dogs are not infallible , if they were , we could send all the searchers home , park all our vehicles and helicopters , and just send in a couple of dogs and handlers.

Compile a list of missing people found by dogs and it will be a small list , Cadaver dogs is another matter , it is a specific scent that transmits for weeks and months and a natural for dogs to pick up.

One of the very best tools for finding a living person is heat sensing equipment in a helicopter at night shortly after the disappearance , this has been done with no results which means the child is deceased and most likely under water. If the dogs were reliable they also indicated a scent to the waters edge

No matter how well that creek was searched , there can be hidden cavities around boulders or even under the shoreline , especially if there are beavers , they sometimes tunnel into the banks below the surface.

I had to step away from this case for a while because it was getting too conspiratorial for me. I came out of lurkdom to say THANK YOU for this wonderful post! Common sense and logic does it for me.

I know it's probably too "boring" but I still think that little DeOrr is either in the water somewhere or in the woods having died due to exposure.

I have tried and tried to jump on some 'other' bandwagons, but there just isn't enough evidence to convince me of anything sinister here just yet.

TBH, this is new to me because I'm usually always jaded and cynical wrt parents and other bystanders in a missing child's case, but this one just seems different to me for some reason.

IR is still in my sights though.

 

[wondering25]

I am wondering how he could have gotten all the way to the reservoir in big clonky boots and not be seen by anyone. That is quite a hike up a very visible trail. And he supposedly went over the bank first. Why didn't any of the 3 people down there see him before he could make it to the reservoir?

After 10 minutes when his parents found him to be missing, didnt they immediately go to the water areas first?

I still cant figure out the fact that IR was fishing in the reservoir.. Deorr was near an embankment near a creek and mom and dad went exploring and dad saw minnows....what body of water were the minnows in? Wasnt everyone near water? Why didnt anyone see this baby disappear? And GGP.. what the heck? did he have his back to the creek..isnt the embankment what you would fall over and into the creek from?

Where were the minnow sightings in relation to the creek and reservoir? At some point dad had to be near water jmo

 

[kammiemc]

Honestly no disrespect meant I think this is kind of a Barney Fife operation. They are used to small things happening. Nothing like this.

The sheriff said in his interview his men were out searching and he was patrolling the streets. I would bet this is a four man operation and I want to believe they are doing the best they can with what they have to work with.

Did we ever hear how long it took LE to get to the campground after 911 was called?

 

[kammiemc]

I still cant figure out the fact that IR was fishing in the reservoir.. Deorr was near an embankment near a creek and mom and dad went exploring and dad saw minnows....what body of water were the minnows in? Wasnt everyone near water? Why didnt anyone see this baby disappear? And GGP.. what the heck? did he have his back to the creek..isnt the embankment what you would fall over and into the creek from?

Where were the minnow sightings in relation to the creek and reservoir? At some point dad had to be near water jmo

I am imagining him on a walk with someone and going to the reservoir, maybe that person carrying him part of the way. Maybe he did catch up to mom and dad, or someone else. (I'm not familiar enough with the trek to guess whether he could have made it himself. My niece is almost three and she cruises all over rough terrain on her ranch in all kinds of shoes including rain boots, so maybe?)

 

[babyback]

I still cant figure out the fact that IR was fishing in the reservoir.. Deorr was near an embankment near a creek and mom and dad went exploring and dad saw minnows....what body of water were the minnows in? Wasnt everyone near water? Why didnt anyone see this baby disappear? And GGP.. what the heck? did he have his back to the creek..isnt the embankment what you would fall over and into the creek from?

Where were the minnow sightings in relation to the creek and reservoir? At some point dad had to be near water jmo

As per the uncut interview, they were ALL within 100 to 150 feet of each other.