IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #2

[vestigare]

I am not really following this ...

We don't know if he was wearing the vest when it was shot? really?

We don't know that it was shot that morning? ????

He could shoot himself from point blank range and hit nothing but his phone clip?

And it would travel down alongside his body between the vest and his body, never hitting either but just the phone clip? Isn't that kind of a one in a million shot?

I had gone.back before your questions and edited to make sure people understood I was discussing the non fatal shot. Or the shot frequently being called the vest shot or first shot.

Does that help you understand?

 

[vestigare]

Re: Non Fatal Shot/First Shot/Vest Shot/Phone Shot

Possible scenarios where bruising would not occure.
-Vest was not being worn when shot (vest was on the ground or hanging, shot, then put on for the second/fatal shot.)

-Vest was not shot that day but possibly many days prior.

-Vest was never shot at but shot parallel to where only a protrude item on vest would be hit (holding gun flat on abdomen or chest, aim toward phone/clilp, pull trigger.)

-Phone and or phone clip took the majority of the bullet energy, ricocheted and no impact energy was to the vest.

 

[cady]

I'll humbly be corrected, but I do not think that suicide is a disease. It indicates a hopelessness about something. I doubt that the people who jumped out of the WTC towers windows on 9/11 were suicidal when they went to work that morning. I think that they saw a hopeless, painful situation and avoided suffering it by taking their deaths into their own hands, on their own terms. I think that something unbearable was going on in CG's life, and that he chose to put an end to it. No idea what that may have been. Maybe we will find out, maybe not. JMO

 

[tcer114]

Yes, defense wounds should show up in the autopsy and might have been noted when they found him but the reality is we don't know, they aren't saying. While some of these rumors may have leaked from reliable sources (and that does happen) we just don't really know, we are speculating on rumor.

 

[Montjoy]

Yes, defense wounds should show up in the autopsy and might have been noted when they found him but the reality is we don't know, they aren't saying. While some of these rumors may have leaked from reliable sources (and that does happen) we just don't really know, we are speculating on rumor.

While I see your point, the informational standard here is that we may discuss information from official or MSM sources. In this case, the information about the lack of signs of a struggle/defensive wounds came from a MSM source, so, pending information to the contrary, we're allowed to discuss that as a fact. You may call that a 'rumor', but for the purposes of discussion at WS, it's not of the same order as a hearsay rumor from 'someone in town' or 'a friend who knows a LEO', which would not be allowed to be discussed.

 

[tcer114]

Even being new, I see that and speculation is why we are all here, even me. I guess I am frustrated by what facts we don't know.

 

[Elley Mae]

While I see your point, the informational standard here is that we may discuss information from official or MSM sources. In this case, the information about the lack of signs of a struggle/defensive wounds came from a MSM source, so, pending information to the contrary, we're allowed to discuss that as a fact. You may call that a 'rumor', but for the purposes of discussion at WS, it's not of the same order as a hearsay rumor from 'someone in town' or 'a friend who knows a LEO', which would not be allowed to be discussed.

bbm. exsqueeze me? I am taking from this that there is a link, or I could be wrong. Is there a link that says the lack of defensive wounds or struggle? What information? jmo idk

 

[cady]

Even being new, I see that and speculation is why we are all here, even me. I guess I am frustrated by what facts we don't know.

We all are. Do you have any idea if there will be a presser after the so-called secret meeting with Rudd, Manny, the ME and the Task Force? Are they actively pursuing leads of sightings of the two whites and one black guy ? TY JMO

 

[cady]

bbm. exsqueeze me? I am taking from this that there is a link, or I could be wrong. Is there a link that says the lack of defensive wounds or struggle? What information? jmo idk

"Sources told Fox News" re: no defensive wounds or struggle. WaPO repeated it. JMO
So, not official because sources, as , usual, are not named and quoted. But it is MSM fodder for conversation,LOL

 

[i.b.nora]

Regarding the MSM reporting of "no defensive wounds":

This should be a start with links to others:

That Illinois cop-killing sparked outrage and tears. But was it a suicide?

The Washington Post
September 16, 2015
By Michael E. Miller

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ked-outrage-and-a-tears-but-was-it-a-suicide/

“When Fox Lake police officer Charles Joseph Gliniewicz was found mortally wounded along a forested road in this sleepy northern Illinois town, his fellow officers feared the worst. Just moments before, Gliniewicz had radioed in that he was pursuing three suspicious men. Then his colleagues spotted him in the dirt, bleeding out from a gunshot to the chest. Another slug was lodged in his bulletproof vest.”

*

“Gliniewicz’s body was found face down in a remote area, his service weapon next to him,” reported Fox News’s Matt Finn, citing the unnamed Task Force member. “Two shell casings were found: one came from a shot that hit Gliniewicz’s Kevlar vest; roughly 100 feet away, another casing was found from the fatal shot that struck Gliniewicz underneath his bulletproof vest in a downward trajectory, hitting him near the heart.”

“Sources say one hand was found underneath his chest in what’s described as a gun-holding position,” Finn continued. “Two separate sources say Gliniewicz had no defensive wounds and there was no sign of a struggle, especially one to save his own life.””​

 

[Tillicum]

This is one of the reasons I'm not placing a lot of confidence in these unknown sources. http://patch.com/illinois/grayslake...fficials-investigating-lt-gliniewiczs-death-0

Battaglia also called other police agencies and several media outlets over the past couple days, he said. Covelli provided the following information regarding recent media reports surrounding the case:

As of recent, some media outlets have reported on obtaining information from an anonymous source even after being told the information is inaccurate. It is unknown at this time if Battaglia is one of the “sources” media outlets have reported on regarding this investigation. Battaglia’s phone records show he has communicated with several media outlets during a similar time period.

 

[Elley Mae]

Regarding the MSM reporting of "no defensive wounds":

This should be a start with links to others:

That Illinois cop-killing sparked outrage and tears. But was it a suicide?

The Washington Post
September 16, 2015
By Michael E. Miller

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ked-outrage-and-a-tears-but-was-it-a-suicide/

“When Fox Lake police officer Charles Joseph Gliniewicz was found mortally wounded along a forested road in this sleepy northern Illinois town, his fellow officers feared the worst. Just moments before, Gliniewicz had radioed in that he was pursuing three suspicious men. Then his colleagues spotted him in the dirt, bleeding out from a gunshot to the chest. Another slug was lodged in his bulletproof vest.”

*

“Gliniewicz’s body was found face down in a remote area, his service weapon next to him,” reported Fox News’s Matt Finn, citing the unnamed Task Force member. “Two shell casings were found: one came from a shot that hit Gliniewicz’s Kevlar vest; roughly 100 feet away, another casing was found from the fatal shot that struck Gliniewicz underneath his bulletproof vest in a downward trajectory, hitting him near the heart.”

“Sources say one hand was found underneath his chest in what’s described as a gun-holding position,” Finn continued. “Two separate sources say Gliniewicz had no defensive wounds and there was no sign of a struggle, especially one to save his own life.””​

Thanks for this.

 

[i.b.nora]

Instead of automatically discounting things, it helps to go back and look at the reporting that was being done in the few days prior to the arrest of Joe Battaglia.

I seem to recall ABC saying Battaglia had called them, so I am looking right now at their reports in the Wednesday September 9 to Friday September 1 time frame.

One of their articles on Thursday September 10th.

http://abc7chicago.com/news/investigators-accuse-coroner-of-jeopardizing-fox-lake-case/977112/

The article does not mention anything unsourced or odd.

AND

Now looking at Patch article from September 10

http://patch.com/illinois/crystallake/cops-bash-coroner-speaking-slain-fox-lake-police-lieutenant

““Right now we can’t say if it’s an accident, homicide or suicide,” he said. Rudd did note that, for now, “We are leaning in favor of homicide.”

On Thursday, Rudd said the fatal shot struck Gliniewicz in his torso, contradicting an ABC “I-Team” report that one round went into the back of the lieutenant’s neck and another hit his bulletproof vest.

“That’s not true,” Rudd said.”​

I am not going to spend my whole morning looking this stuff up. At this stage (and especially looking back) its not that difficult to figure out what to pay attention to and what to throw out. IMO

 

[FindHG]

I had the opportunity to go to Woodstock Harley today for the fundraiser for LT. Gliniewicz's family and his explorer post. His wife was there and gave a small speech thanking everyone but reminding everyone to hold first responders in their hearts because everyday they put their life on the line for us. They announced they had raised just a little over $14,000. and the totals weren't complete yet as they were still selling raffle tickets. Huge turnout.

Neat to know, tcer114. Thank you for sharing your account of being there and for being there.

 

[cady]

OT but c-span will be doing a history series about Landmark Supreme Court Cases starting Oct 5. Looks interesting!!!! JMO

 

[Cubby]

This is one of the reasons I'm not placing a lot of confidence in these unknown sources. http://patch.com/illinois/grayslake...fficials-investigating-lt-gliniewiczs-death-0

Battaglia also called other police agencies and several media outlets over the past couple days, he said. Covelli provided the following information regarding recent media reports surrounding the case:

As of recent, some media outlets have reported on obtaining information from an anonymous source even after being told the information is inaccurate. It is unknown at this time if Battaglia is one of the “sources” media outlets have reported on regarding this investigation. Battaglia’s phone records show he has communicated with several media outlets during a similar time period.

The difference between what you posted and what has been reported in MSM after Battaglia's arrest is no one is coming forward to say the information is inaccurate. So we can look at this two ways, Pre-Battaglia arrest and Post-Battaglia arrest. There has been no mention of inaccurate information being leaked post arrest.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

So, the meeting between LE and Coroner's Office is scheduled for today, Sunday?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

The difference between what you posted and what has been reported in MSM after Battaglia's arrest is no one is coming forward to say the information is inaccurate. So we can look at this two ways, Pre-Battaglia arrest and Post-Battaglia arrest. There has been no mention of inaccurate information being leaked post arrest.

According to "sources" Battaglia had nothing to do with the case/crime. He may be a scorned nut cake or may have inside information or just an opinion.
Who knows at this point?

Whatever he thinks he knows, he is a nut cake for threatening to harm people within the investigation.

 

[Cubby]

According to "sources" Battaglia had nothing to do with the case/crime. He may be a scorned nut cake or may have inside information or just an opinion.
Who knows at this point?

Whatever he thinks he knows, he is a nut cake for threatening to harm people within the investigation.

I didn't mean to suggest Battaglia knew anything. It's just he seems to be the excuse for considering everything reported in MSM not directly quoted as rumor. AFAWK he has had no contact with any media or officials investigating the case from the time he was arrested.... so we can no longer contribute false information to him.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Sources said Lt. Gliniewicz's hand was under his chest in a gun holding position but his gun was found two feet away from his body?

How can his physical actions be explained?
Shoots self in the heart, gun releases from hand and either falls to the side or projects forward two feet*, while arm/hand stays in bent position with hand near to and underneath the chest. What would explain the gun "flying" versus just dropping straight down to the ground?

*No, would have to fly forward more than two feet.
But why would the gun release to the side in any case?

Post 1052 above for reference.