IL IL - Mascoutah, BlkFem Skeletal 327UFIL, 20-40, SK victim, off I-64, Jan'02

[tatertot]

To be form-fitting, that jumpsuit must have had a high spandex content, and that's a fiber that wears out over time. Anyone who's ever seen her favorite swimsuit or leggings start to disintegrate into those white fibers knows what I'm talking about. I highly doubt a spandex bodysuit bought around 1988 and worn frequently would still be serviceable fourteen years later in 2002, unless it was not actually worn until 2002.

 

[carbuff]

To be form-fitting, that jumpsuit must have had a high spandex content, and that's a fiber that wears out over time. Anyone who's ever seen her favorite swimsuit or leggings start to disintegrate into those white fibers knows what I'm talking about. I highly doubt a spandex bodysuit bought around 1988 and worn frequently would still be serviceable fourteen years later in 2002, unless it was not actually worn until 2002.

Yeah, I agree. It could be plain cotton knit, which would be a bit baggy, but that wouldn't disintegrate as fast. Still, not something you would expect to last 12 years on the shelf, or 2 years out exposed to the elements.

 

[Danaya]

I agree with tatertot, that is a long time for a jumpsuit to be worn. I just don't see why anyone, escpecially someone who looks as fashionable as Melissa would wear a jumpsuit for over ten years. That would be a major fashion faux pas. I don't know why she would even keep it that long. I think it's a coincidence.

 

[branwynbreeze]

My mother loved to buy clothes. When she passed, she had quite a few she never wore. I donated some to local church's woman's center, family members took a lot of them, as well. Could JD have gotten jumpsuit from 2nd hand store, Goodwill, Salvation Army store, church sale or borrowed it from someone?

 

[carbuff]

I agree with tatertot, that is a long time for a jumpsuit to be worn. I just don't see why anyone, escpecially someone who looks as fashionable as Melissa would wear a jumpsuit for over ten years. That would be a major fashion faux pas. I don't know why she would even keep it that long. I think it's a coincidence.

That's part of why I wondered if it was a dance leotard -- fashion doesn't really apply when you're dancing or working out. Maybe look if anybody disappeared from a gym or after workout or something?

 

[carbuff]

The UID is in Namus now and she has DNA: https://identifyus.org/en/cases/11788

The Doenet page has photos of her jewelry: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/327ufil.html

 

[MizKim]

Hi Everyone,

Its my first post and I've been lurking for about a week so I'm not exactly sure how everything works but I think I'll jump in and get my feet wet!

I'm seeing a strong resemblance to Bedriye Sayrun missing from the Chicago area since September 29, 2001,

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/1714/0/

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/sayrun_bedriye.html

What throws me off is they are both from IL and DNA is completed for both. So wouldn't the computer automatically check for matches?

What do you think?

 

[Lil Quirky]

Toi Mitchell from St Louis looks like a good match also. Not much info on her but time, age and location are in the ballpark.

 

[zinc]

Hi Everyone,

Its my first post and I've been lurking for about a week so I'm not exactly sure how everything works but I think I'll jump in and get my feet wet!

I'm seeing a strong resemblance to Bedriye Sayrun missing from the Chicago area since September 29, 2001,

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/1714/0/

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/sayrun_bedriye.html

What throws me off is they are both from IL and DNA is completed for both. So wouldn't the computer automatically check for matches?

What do you think?

Welcome, MizKim. :welcome6:

I see the gross resemblance you mention, which means it must be pretty strong, because I am quite bad at recognizing face matches. I couldn't tell you whether the faces are anthropometrically or structurally similar. There are others here who might be willing to comment on that, although the forensic illustrations are small.

Her other information is roughly compatible, but the UID has very little personal data to compare with.

The DNA question does not have a completely straightforward answer and I will separate mine into another post below.

 

[carbuff]

Welcome, MizKim. :welcome6:

I see the gross resemblance you mention, which means it must be pretty strong, because I am quite bad at recognizing face matches. I couldn't tell you whether the faces are anthropometrically or structurally similar. There are others here who might be willing to comment on that, although the forensic illustrations are small.

Her other information is roughly compatible, but the UID has very little personal data to compare with.

The DNA question does not have a completely straightforward answer and I will separate mine into another post below.

BBM -- If you go to her Namus entry (https://identifyus.org/en/cases/11788) and bring up the image, you can click on it again and the image will open in another window, much enlarged. At least it does on Windows -- probably not so good if you're on a smartphone or something.

 

[zinc]

[Following post is long. I am not by any means an expert on how NamUs or CODIS work. Corrections to the below are strongly requested.]

To a first approximation, the most basic answer is "yes"; if a matching MP and UID have DNA in "the system" (NamUs–CODIS) then eventually the system should get a "hit" on the match.

The most accurate answer is probably only "maybe".

As you may know, CODIS can receive three different types of DNA profiles. For CODIS to make a comparison, both MP and UID have to have the same type of profile entered:

• nuclear STR ("nucDNA") profiles — needs a direct MP reference sample or at least 2 MP family reference samples
• Y-STR DNA profiles — only for paternal-line connections, only to/from males
• mitochondrial ("mtDNA") profiles — only for maternal-line connections

Furthermore, CODIS has three levels. To make a comparison within a state, both MP and UID have to have DNA profiles in the same state database. Across state lines, both DNA profiles have to be "good enough" to be in the national one:

• Local (LDIS) — Local DNA lab chooses own requirements for profile to be stored
• State (SDIS) — State index accepts LDIS profiles that meet stricter state standards, varies by state
• National (NDIS) — Nationwide index accepts SDIS profiles that meet strictest national standards

(There are many other potential problems that can crop up to screw a meaningful DNA comparison — partial/low-quality profiles, not enough reference samples, Y-STR/mtDNA don't discriminate enough, profile entered into wrong CODIS index, etc.)

I've left out a lot of detail, and the above is just an absolute bare minimum. The profiles have to be of the same type, and they have to be in the same CODIS level/database. If either of those is off, it's a non-starter. There will be no DNA comparison, and therefore no CODIS "hit".

Furthermore still, NamUs case files and CODIS entries aren't directly connected. A NamUs case file's DNA information depends on some human's correctly entering what kind of DNA is available for the MP or UID, and what databases it's stored in, and keeping that information up-to-date. CODIS comparisons may or may not be happening behind the scenes regardless of what the NamUs case file says.

As of September 2013, what we public users can see on a NamUs case file is whether the MP or UID had any type, any quality of DNA submitted, anywhere, at all. That's it.

UID case files occasionally publicly list some (not all) MP rule-outs if the case manager chooses to do so, but not the reason for the exclusion. There is no way for a public user to find out via NamUs whether an MP–UID DNA comparison was ever made at all, through CODIS or through direct comparison by cooperating agencies.

 

[zinc]

Along the above lines, there's a slide I remember from a presentation about NamUs for investigators:

Issues that Impede Missing and Unidentified Person Investigations, B. J. Spamer
http://www.untfsu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/FVTC-Feb-2011.pdf

• Never assume that multiple DNA technologies [i.e. both nuclear STR and mitochondrial DNA] were utilized
• Never assume that multiple family reference samples were submitted and were processed
• Never assume that missing and unidentified profiles reside in the same levels of CODIS

As public users, we doubly can't assume any of the above, because we have no information on it. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that we laypersons are supposed to just read "DNA available" and trust that a comparison will be made, and not get into law enforcement's business. The large numbers of public possible match submissions as a result of NamUs have become a source of frustration for many investigative departments, and justifiably so.

 

[EmiLove832]

Namus describes the outfit as "Black velour sleeveless "catsuit" with full length legs."

I googled velour sleeveless jumpsuit and found a listing on eBay for a vintage DJ Summers black stretch velvet sleeveless jumpsuit. It looks like it could be really close to what she had on.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/220999046766?lpid=82

Then I googled Jason Matthews Jumpsuit, there was an velour jumpsuit Jason Matthews brand sold on eBay. Unfortunately the listing but we can see in the photo the outfit is the same shape.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Velou...Black-Sz-6-Jason-Matthews-Party-/141176568877

 

[carbuff]

Hi Everyone,

Its my first post and I've been lurking for about a week so I'm not exactly sure how everything works but I think I'll jump in and get my feet wet!

I'm seeing a strong resemblance to Bedriye Sayrun missing from the Chicago area since September 29, 2001,

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/1714/0/

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/sayrun_bedriye.html

What throws me off is they are both from IL and DNA is completed for both. So wouldn't the computer automatically check for matches?

What do you think?

Everything about Bedriye fits, even the length of time before the body was found.

"Last seen wearing, black blouse, silver pants." It's entirely possible she was wearing the black catsuit under the pants. I remember my daughter used to do that when she went out dancing to make sure she didn't get gap-itis from her shirt pulling up.

We've had a great plenty of cases where the UID turned out to be from a neighboring town but for whatever reason the connection was never made. I think it should be sent in. If there's DNA for both, it will be a quick ruleout.

 

[SunsetGirl]

Maybe this will help:

The overlay is sort of crude (I finger drew the main facial feature outlines on my computer) ... I traced Jane Doe's face, copied and pasted an exact duplicate drawing on Bedriye Sayrun to make sure the features were all in proportion. The nose was such a perfect match it's as if the artist used Bedriye's nose as her 'model nose' - all other features also incredibly close!!

Here's a side by side comparison without the overlay:

 

[SunsetGirl]

Along the above lines, there's a slide I remember from a presentation about NamUs for investigators:

Issues that Impede Missing and Unidentified Person Investigations, B. J. Spamer
http://www.untfsu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/FVTC-Feb-2011.pdf


As public users, we doubly can't assume any of the above, because we have no information on it. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that we laypersons are supposed to just read "DNA available" and trust that a comparison will be made, and not get into law enforcement's business. The large numbers of public possible match submissions as a result of NamUs have become a source of frustration for many investigative departments, and justifiably so.

Thank You Zinc! I had the exact same question on another UID thread & before submitting a possible match I wondered about the DNA samples (both the Jane Doe & the possible match have DNA samples on file according to NAMUS) - you answered my question!

 

[SunsetGirl]

Everything about Bedriye fits, even the length of time before the body was found.

"Last seen wearing, black blouse, silver pants." It's entirely possible she was wearing the black catsuit under the pants. I remember my daughter used to do that when she went out dancing to make sure she didn't get gap-itis from her shirt pulling up.

We've had a great plenty of cases where the UID turned out to be from a neighboring town but for whatever reason the connection was never made. I think it should be sent in. If there's DNA for both, it will be a quick ruleout.

Just wondering if anyone here is going to submit Bedriye?

I've never submitted someone but I'm about to for the other UID thread I've been posting on ... I can also do this one if no one else wants to, I'll just need more time to research since I'm not very familiar with this case.

 

[carbuff]

I don't think anybody is very familiar with the case; there was a burst of activity when it was first posted and then nothing until recently.

 

[STANDREID]

Removed double post

 

[STANDREID]

Has serial killer Larry Bright been looked at for this one? He killed black women here in IL about that time.