IL IL - Mascoutah, BlkFem Skeletal 327UFIL, 20-40, SK victim, off I-64, Jan'02

Toi Mitchell (https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/24934/184) and Bedriye Sayrun (https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/1714/0/) both have DNA available, so it appears neither was a match.

As far as we know they're not a match, but it's possible that comparisons are on some kind of wait list, or something could be holding up the process. I think both women are a good potential match. I wanted to find this thread in case no one had suggested Toi Mitchell yet.


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I'm repeating this post so I can add new links for the Illinois State Police Unsolved Crimes files & adding a potential 4th victim:

There are 3 unidentified victims believed to be killed by Maury Troy Travis:

Our Jane Doe here - I'll call her Victim #1 ...
Illinois State Police - Unsolved Crimes
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/327ufil.html ... found Jan 30, 2002

Victim #2 ... http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/334ufil.html
Illinois State Police - Unsolved Crimes
(I could not find a Namus file for her) ... found Mar 11, 2002

Victim #3 ... http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/302ufil.html
Her Namus file:
Illinois State Police - Unsolved Crimes
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/12166 ... found Mar 28, 2002

I don't see WS threads for Victims #2 & #3 ... time frame is really close so any possible matches we find for our Jane Doe could be considered for the others.

Victim #4? ... found her on the Illinois State Police - Unsolved Crimes page also - her skeleton was found Oct 1, 2002 but the file indicates she is believed to have been killed in 2001 ... she might be unrelated to the other 3 I can't tell
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/546ufil.html

rbbm
Black female,30-50,4'10-5'4',"MAVERICKS"shirt,Columbia,28/03/2002
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?350418-Black-female-30-50-4-10-5-4-quot-MAVERICKS-quot-shirt-Columbia-28-03-2002&p=13651094#post13651094

White F,25-40,5'4''-5'6''uterus&ovaries missing,Collinsville, 20/7/1990
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ollinsville-20-7-1990&p=13649889#post13649889
 
As far as we know they're not a match, but it's possible that comparisons are on some kind of wait list, or something could be holding up the process. I think both women are a good potential match. I wanted to find this thread in case no one had suggested Toi Mitchell yet.


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We're being told that the old caveats no longer apply and if DNA doesn't hit, it's not a match.

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We're being told that the old caveats no longer apply and if DNA doesn't hit, it's not a match.

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Oh that's frustrating in one sense because I was so hoping that many of these people would be matched once the system was fixed. However, if all DNA is being cross-checked on every level that's freaking excellent!

Are there any resources/articles you could point me to with this updated info so I can post it to the UID FAQ thread as well? There were a couple of us asking about this on that thread in the past few months but never had any response, so I'd love to update it in case someone is looking for info in the future.

Thank you!!!


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http://kcmo.gov/police/missing-persons/kimberly-lawanda-carter-missing/#.We-_J5A8KK0

Last seen wearing a black pantsuit. Age is off by one year. From Kansas City, MO.

Went missing in the mid-80s, which fits with what we've established as far as when the pantsuit was manufactured which our Jane Doe was wearing.

e913fb52a334c526586cce60d5c06114.jpg



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Oh that's frustrating in one sense because I was so hoping that many of these people would be matched once the system was fixed. However, if all DNA is being cross-checked on every level that's freaking excellent!

Are there any resources/articles you could point me to with this updated info so I can post it to the UID FAQ thread as well? There were a couple of us asking about this on that thread in the past few months but never had any response, so I'd love to update it in case someone is looking for info in the future.

Thank you!!!


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No, nothing official that I could find. So consider it rumor, I guess.

I think they just want us to take it on faith and stay out of their hair :p
 
[Following post is long. I am not by any means an expert on how NamUs or CODIS work. Corrections to the below are strongly requested.]

To a first approximation, the most basic answer is "yes"; if a matching MP and UID have DNA in "the system" (NamUs–CODIS) then eventually the system should get a "hit" on the match.

The most accurate answer is probably only "maybe".

As you may know, CODIS can receive three different types of DNA profiles. For CODIS to make a comparison, both MP and UID have to have the same type of profile entered:
  • nuclear STR ("nucDNA") profiles — needs a direct MP reference sample or at least 2 MP family reference samples
  • Y-STR DNA profiles — only for paternal-line connections, only to/from males
  • mitochondrial ("mtDNA") profiles — only for maternal-line connections

Furthermore, CODIS has three levels. To make a comparison within a state, both MP and UID have to have DNA profiles in the same state database. Across state lines, both DNA profiles have to be "good enough" to be in the national one:
  • Local (LDIS) — Local DNA lab chooses own requirements for profile to be stored
  • State (SDIS) — State index accepts LDIS profiles that meet stricter state standards, varies by state
  • National (NDIS) — Nationwide index accepts SDIS profiles that meet strictest national standards

(There are many other potential problems that can crop up to screw a meaningful DNA comparison — partial/low-quality profiles, not enough reference samples, Y-STR/mtDNA don't discriminate enough, profile entered into wrong CODIS index, etc.)

I've left out a lot of detail, and the above is just an absolute bare minimum. The profiles have to be of the same type, and they have to be in the same CODIS level/database. If either of those is off, it's a non-starter. There will be no DNA comparison, and therefore no CODIS "hit".

Furthermore still, NamUs case files and CODIS entries aren't directly connected. A NamUs case file's DNA information depends on some human's correctly entering what kind of DNA is available for the MP or UID, and what databases it's stored in, and keeping that information up-to-date. CODIS comparisons may or may not be happening behind the scenes regardless of what the NamUs case file says.

As of September 2013, what we public users can see on a NamUs case file is whether the MP or UID had any type, any quality of DNA submitted, anywhere, at all. That's it.

UID case files occasionally publicly list some (not all) MP rule-outs if the case manager chooses to do so, but not the reason for the exclusion. There is no way for a public user to find out via NamUs whether an MP–UID DNA comparison was ever made at all, through CODIS or through direct comparison by cooperating agencies.
Along the above lines, there's a slide I remember from a presentation about NamUs for investigators:

Issues that Impede Missing and Unidentified Person Investigations, B. J. Spamer
http://www.untfsu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/FVTC-Feb-2011.pdf


As public users, we doubly can't assume any of the above, because we have no information on it. :) Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that we laypersons are supposed to just read "DNA available" and trust that a comparison will be made, and not get into law enforcement's business. The large numbers of public possible match submissions as a result of NamUs have become a source of frustration for many investigative departments, and justifiably so.

Thank you for this! It certainly helps. ;)
 
Active Missing Persons

Mascoutah, IL is approx 30 mins. east of St. Louis, MO. Perhaps Jane Doe is missing from that area? Here is a list of black adult females who went missing during 2001. I've only been able to find one MP profile for any of these ladies and it was Wilma Norwood on The Charley Project (linked below). IL's MP database still has only Ms. Page listed as anyone who would potentially be this Jane Doe, but she's been excluded. I'll look around a bit more to see whether I can find any profiles or information on these ladies. If anyone has access to school yearbook and ancestry databases, that might be a good start to finding pictures and info.

BBM - I added the LKA and DOB along with their ages when they were reported missing.

COVINGTON, LATICIA Female Black LKA 01/25/2001 DOB 01/01/1979 (22) St. Louis Metropolitan Police St. Louis, MO ADULT

HAMM, SHARONDA RENEE Female Black LKA 02/16/2001 DOB 01/11/1979 (22) St. Louis Metropolitan Police St. Louis, MO ADULT

HEMPHILL, CAROL Female Black LKA 08/04/2001 DOB 06/10/1962 (39) St. Louis Metropolitan Police St. Louis, MO ADULT

NORWOOD, WILMA J Female Black LKA 12/21/2001 DOB 06/13/1954 (47) St. Louis Metropolitan Police St. Louis, MO ADULT
Wilma J. Norwood – The Charley Project

RUCKER, ANYIA Female Black LKA 03/07/2001 DOB 07/13/1964 (37) St. Louis Metropolitan Police St. Louis, MO ADULT
 
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

Distinctive Physical Features

Three piercings observed in the right ear.

Other distinctive physical characteristic
Healed fracture on distal left fibula (just above ankle). The fractured section of the fibula fused to the tibia. Healed fracture of nasal bones, left second rib, distal radius (wrist), and right manubrium (right-center of chest below the neck).
 
Bump. No new exclusions yet.
 

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