IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #13

[TTF14]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170227/e90bdd63d3f51518d902e74ac3a1f3f8.jpg[/IMG]


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So even though the cemetery is fenced in, there is that area where you can exit the cemetery in the rear and go into the woods? And parking would just be IN the cemetery like folks do when visiting a grave? (i.e. parking near the grave you want to visit)

 

[Falling Down]

Has it been confirmed they were forced to cross the two creeks? That's my theory.

 

[tinan83]

Thank you for sharing this. I think the key words in this article are "the warrant was related to the investigation into the murders of Libby German and Abby Williams." JMO but maybe they gathered necessary information from this search? Fingers crossed.

http://www.wthr.com/article/search-...ly-farm-in-connection-with-two-murdered-teens

Confirmed through MSM. Warrants.

 

[Wondergirl]

LE needs to do a road canvas today - 2 weeks to the day after the murder.

JMO

 

[Wondergirl]

Where do I begin? Made the jog to Delphi today. Completely changed everything I had thought and/or envisioned in my head. I live in a small town but this town....super small.

1. I live about 2 hours away. Didn't know the area at all. Took me an hour to find the bridge. And that's using GPS. GPS took me all over. I finally had to stop and ask someone. The GPS kept taking me to the trail head which is in town at Riley Park. So IMO this BG had to have known the area. And to actually chance into two girls by theirselves--no way. Well except....See #3

2. This trail is not nearly as "back woods" as I thought. There is an area right off the road where maybe two cars can fit to walk back. The bridge is only half a mile from the road/parking spot. Very open. Had I not known what happened there I would never have worried about being there alone. Especially during the day. Anyone that parked right there was right on the road and fully visible to anyone going by.

3. There are 3 areas to park and get to the bridge. In town on Washington Street, and another little spot right beside the Hoosier Highway. If you park here, you literally walk over the interstate. The wooden bridge is probably
A half a mile to a mile past that. Mind you this basically runs parallel to the road. Not deep into the woods like my mind thought. It runs parallel to 350 N. The mere fact that these girls could have walked over the interstate....was jaw dropping for me. I assumed there was only one area to hop on the trail. When I saw these two girls could have possibly walked across the interstate was a game changer for me. So, do we know where the sister dropped them off? Town? Off Hoosier Highway or right at the gate leading back to the bridge? God knows who saw them if they crossed over the interstate.

4. They found the girls on the Northeast side of the bridge, 50 yards from Deer Creek. Closest side to the entrance/parking on the same side as 350. I know this because I asked the searchers out scouring the area. Their main focus today was on the Northeast side of the bridge along the woods/field facing the road. They also had dogs.

5. If I counted one man/boy wearing a camo hat, blue coat, baggie jeans and a hoodie, I counted 30. In fact while driving around trying to find this place I stopped to ask a searcher and it was one of the girls uncle. Wearing a blue coat, camo hat and baggie jeans. This suspect looks like every other man in town. Just a note the uncle said he'd called some friends and family to come and search "their way". I gathered they weren't real pleased with maybe the lack of searching from PD. This was disheartening.

6. The cemetery is within visual distance from the entrance gate/parking to the bridge. Not far at all.

7. After driving over to the cemetery it dips down a little the further back into the cemetery and kind of hides a vehicle. Once back there the PD had big flood lights up facing the woods there. There was a path at the back of the cemetery that had a "no trespassing-private property" sign. The searches had a map out and seemed to focus a lot on this area.

8. Like every other trail there was random trash, cigarette butts all over. Not sure how they determine what's been there a month to what was there the day of the crime.

My summary, IMO this was so much more brazen than I ever thought. It wasn't desolate and deep woods. It was just right off the road. If it took me an hour to find this bridge, it couldn't have been someone who just randomly was at the same place at the same time who didn't know the area. Unless--they saw the girls as they were driving on Hoosier Highway and turned back to locate them. Even then it would be difficult to find which way they went ext. IMO he didn't park at the main entrance to the bridge. It was right on the road, right across from a house. Anyone and everyone would have see his vehicle there. It appears to me he parked in the cemetery, went down the path marked private property, met up with the girls at the north end of the bridge (opposite of what I thought) and cut east back towards the road/cemetery. It's a very hilly area. "Down the hill" could have occurred anywhere. He committed his crime in the woods closest to the cemetery, close to his vehicle and drove away.


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#1Nana:

A day late, and a dollar short, but just read this now (so many conjecture posts ).

Thank-you #1Nana. You are another reason why WS can be so enlightening.

Hats off.

WG

 

[SJCaseFollower]

I feel the same way when I look at his pictures. That he is head down, but looking right at her from under his hat/hoodie. JMO

No wonder they were creeped out.

 

[GGE]

Is there a known spike statistically by pedophiles committing attacks against children/teens near or around Valentine's Day? I would search myself but I'm wary of what I search for using the hospital wifi I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea about me.

Off topic - I'm getting better slowly hopefully I will get home soon. Thanks for asking margarita25 Thanks everyone for your good wishes.

a reasonable worry. my son googled his staph infection and his mortality rate chances and whatnot from the hospital and they came in and said something at one point about patients who "consult dr google" in a rather insulting way... lol... had to point out that our buddy who works at the CDC had suggested we look into a few things. The infectious disease specialist was cool with it though.

but yeah stuff is SO not private on public wifi. I didn't think they'd ACTUALLY be keeping an eye on what people are doing, I figured it was just "possible" to have people see what you're up to. But in our case at least, it seemed that they were actively watching... very creepy. Now I keep my wifi setting on my phone turned off unless I'm at home. I'd rather pay for more data than compromise my privacy!

 

[Elley Mae]

Did LE ever state the time that the audio, "down the hill" was recorded?

 

[Jax49]

Did LE ever state the time that the audio, "down the hill" was recorded?

No. They haven't.

 

[GGE]

I come back and I'm like 2 thread's behind 😭😭

Don't worry nothing happened except #1nana posted a lot of really great pics from the area, so just search the thread for her posts and you should be good to go, IMO.

 

[GGE]

Someone needs to make a podcast of all these threads so I can listen to them while I'm driving.

Pretty sure there are text to voice programs you can use to have it read them out loud to you but i'd turn off signatures if i was usingn it personally so they don't get read every time as well. Not sure if Siri can do it.

 

[FruitTingles]

Don't worry nothing happened except #1nana posted a lot of really great pics from the area, so just search the thread for her posts and you should be good to go, IMO.

Thank you very much!

 

[GGE]

Over 75% of homicides of children of that age are sexually motivated.
There is insufficient data to call the perp a serial killer.

I see this guy as someone who saw two young girls enter a somewhat isolated wooded area and he believed he could take advantage of them for a sexual encounter. He may not have intended to kill them initially but feared that they could identify him. He may have even tried to reason with them after the encounter. In the end, self preservation took over and he took their lives.

The most common method of killing that age group is strangulation followed closely by blunt force trauma. Use of a gun is rare in that only 11% of the victims were shot in various studies.

I realize there is insufficient data at this time to call the perp a serial killer, hence my "JMO".

Official FBI definition of serial killer:

"In combining the various ideas put forth at the Symposium, the following definition was crafted:

Serial Murder: The unlawful killing of two or more victims by the same offender(s), in separate events."

https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder

All this guy needs to have done is to have killed once before, and JMO he almost certainly has. If he hasn't yet, then IMO he probably will again and IMO LE agrees and feels the need to tell the entire USA to BOLO via those 6000 billboards, etc.

I realize most of these crimes are sexually motivated, however IMO that was not the primary motivation here though it may indeed have occurred.

I maintain my "since the beginning" suspicion and assertion that IMOthe COD will be strangulation.

I, too, believe (IMO) he did this opportunistically and not as a result of pre-meditation in relation to these two specific girls.

When looking at statistics for stranger abductions and murders, we find that it is INCREDIBLY rare to abduct two at once, and it's almost as good as a calling card, like writing "helter skelter" on the walls... so, IMO this is either NOT his first time, or NOT his last time.... IMO... because with STRANGER abductions/murders, the "normal" motivation that one might consider in a case between relatives/friends/co-workers/etc is lacking - it's not a matter of long-building anger, resentment, rage, of interpersonal conflicts, etc... it's something INSIDE the perp... and that doesn't go away after he does it once or twice... all JMO.

I don't mind being wrong though as long as he's caught and brought to justice.

 

[Wondergirl]

I get an Internet lure vibe from this. A meet up with what the girls thought was a teen boy but ended up being a monster/s. What thoughts do others have about how this went down? Moo


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After viewing the nightmarish zoom in of the 's face again, I do still feel the perp is youngish - 22 to 34 years old.

Hoping for another presser soon.

WG

 

[abeaman02]

Thanks nana1 for the awesome pictures you took and posted they really help me visualize the scene so much better. It is scary how open it is all around the surrounding area and it is hard to imagine no one hearing anything

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[skibaboo]

That wasn't the entrance into the cemetery. It's just a gate facing another property. Yes you can park at the back of the cemetery and your car is somewhat well hidden. Or rather not as noticeable. The fence is down at a path that leads from the back of the cemetery into the woods where the girls were found. There's a sign posted there that says "no trespassing-private property" which makes sense from the interview of the neighbor. The spotlight is facing towards the path.

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(images snipped for space)

Original pic from 2012 google earth and marked where I think I see the paths. Is this right?

 

[Acoots82]

This is my very first post on this website so please do not crucify me if I do something wrong.... I have a feeling that he knows the area well... well enough to know how he could do this without getting caught.... Does anyone know if there are any abandoned houses around anywhere close to the bridge?? where he could park his car out of sight, but not TOO far (say, within a mile or two from the trail) so he could stay unnoticed??? And possibly walk through the woods to get to the trail? I mean... somehow he has stayed off of the radar.... Sorry if someone has already asked this question... I live about an hour away from Delphi and this entire thing is messing with me..

 

[WebSight]

Yes they were at the end. Sooooo close to the gravel path to the road!


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When I first joined in the dialogue, there was a tv news crew that walked the path police believed BG and the girls took to the final spot. It was off the bridge, at the north end and directly to the right, "down the hill."

This is what the police had said (I will have to try and find that tv link) and they sounded matter of fact about the route. Oh, and they even panned across to the closeness of the house across the street.

And, because of the tv report, I assumed that this had to be.

Also someone posted a rather straight forward map of the path coming off the bridge at the north end, going right and following a path along the water to the final spot - no water crossing (I cannot remember who or which thread, sorry).

I said at the time that I felt that the girls were on their way back north and BG got on and approached them closer to the north side. Remember I am the one that keeps going on about how that is Abby's jacket in the photo and I surmised that Abby was in front of Libby, on the way back north, and that he was coming south towards them as they were leaving.

But then those two videos came out placing BG and the girls way south on the bridge, closer to the exit at the south end and that video changed my mind completely as to which end they exited the bridge because of the their closeness of the south end and also everyone going south in pictures - it just made sense at that time with the new visual perspective.

Those videos are really indisputable because of all the natural marking points (significant trees, et al.)

And knowing they were so far out, it seemed bizarre that girls would be marched back across the whole length of the bridge towards the populated end. So then the focus became the south end. Because of that I gave up the idea of him passing them and then getting them on the rebound going north, it just seemed too far.

The new theory about the south end has niggled at me but the new visual evidence seemed much easier to justify because of the probability of him marching them back that far across almost the entire length or following them across without them making a run off that bridge and for that house seemed far-fetched to me.

So, did he pass them and, they being creeped out, turned turn back a bit early to get off that bridge?

Or did they go almost the south exit and turn around with him following them the whole time?

Did they think they were probably safe because they were heading back towards a populated area and therefore didn't run?

Did they walk with him.

 

[Coldpizza]

Please continue here for Abigail and Liberty. This thread will close in 10 minutes.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...3-amp-Liberty-German-14-Delphi-13-Feb-2017-14

I've brought some posts over so you can continue the discussion.

Thank you

 

[Gunther Toody]

I realize there is insufficient data at this time to call the perp a serial killer, hence my "JMO".

Official FBI definition of serial killer:

"In combining the various ideas put forth at the Symposium, the following definition was crafted:

Serial Murder: The unlawful killing of two or more victims by the same offender(s), in separate events."

https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder

All this guy needs to have done is to have killed once before, and JMO he almost certainly has. If he hasn't yet, then IMO he probably will again and IMO LE agrees and feels the need to tell the entire USA to BOLO via those 6000 billboards, etc.

I realize most of these crimes are sexually motivated, however IMO that was not the primary motivation here though it may indeed have occurred.

I maintain my "since the beginning" suspicion and assertion that IMOthe COD will be strangulation.

I, too, believe (IMO) he did this opportunistically and not as a result of pre-meditation in relation to these two specific girls.

When looking at statistics for stranger abductions and murders, we find that it is INCREDIBLY rare to abduct two at once, and it's almost as good as a calling card, like writing "helter skelter" on the walls... so, IMO this is either NOT his first time, or NOT his last time.... IMO... because with STRANGER abductions/murders, the "normal" motivation that one might consider in a case between relatives/friends/co-workers/etc is lacking - it's not a matter of long-building anger, resentment, rage, of interpersonal conflicts, etc... it's something INSIDE the perp... and that doesn't go away after he does it once or twice... all JMO.

I don't mind being wrong though as long as he's caught and brought to justice.

If you wish to follow up with the Serial Killer theory, look for m.o. and signatures.
We don't really know either in this case yet, but we have a few facts...wooded area, likely strangulation or blunt force trauma, early teens.

Then find other cases starting with the same age group and look for the same dynamics..