chewymolasses
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IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #9
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ninij9
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I was just going to argue with you about the age of the guys wearing these relaxed light blue jeans as my DH does...Then it occured to me he's 51.😨
When did we get old?
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Ok. Levi's STILL makes comfort fit and relaxed fit men's jeans. So all this stuff about them being old, from the '90's etc., just makes no sense.
I bet Wrangler makes the same fit too.
Just go look at Macy's and search men's jeans.
He could have gotten these for Christmas for all we know!
I bet Wrangler makes the same fit too.
Just go look at Macy's and search men's jeans.
He could have gotten these for Christmas for all we know!
Mainely16
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Longish post ahead.
Sorry for the length, but I am trying to be as helpful as possible during my work break. Thank goodness I am a fast typist, even though I only use two fingers. I look demonic when I get going. At least my co-workers get a laugh out of it.
Anyhow.....
Firstly, let's get his clothing squared away. The man is not wearing a hat. Per law enforcement, what we see is a hood from his hoodie. In one pic, it is covering his whole head. In the other, it appears to have shifted, leaving us some view of a shock/gathering of hair at the front.
There are no sunglasses. They only give a brief description of his clothing. They have not, as far as I know at this moment, given hair color or facial hair confirmation. I think they are doing this because too much description will plant a specific image in our heads. The perp may have changed by dying hair, shaving, etc; we need to be open to all possibilities.
I do wish we had some speculation about height and weight.
They have not confirmed anything else on his being in terms of possible views of weapons, etc.
This is the link to Liberty's FBI page. Abby's is linked at the bottom where you click on her picture. The page offers many of the "facts," as well as the recording and pics. You can print out an informative, eye-catching poster on this page. The page also contains all tipline information, either by phone or email. Yes, you can email your tips! They are welcoming any and all, and you are guaranteed anonymity if you wish.
https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/liberty-german
Other "solid" information that IMO does not need to be sleuthed:
Both girls were found deceased by volunteers on the same day, same time. Neither girl was alive when found.
LE has neither released the time, nor the way they were murdered. They are doing this for a reason. They need to keep control over information that may help them establish the legitimacy of suspects and tips. There are other reasons for their reticence, but that is the one reason that they have expressed.
In their words: "“Every day we evaluate what we have and what we feel like would be beneficial for folks to know,” Leazenby said. “Obviously, when this is all said and done, we’re going to end up in a court of law with this situation. For us to reveal basically everything we have—and a lot of folks understand this—it would be detrimental to reveal a lot of information.”“We realize that the killer or killers may be watching this, and I echo what (Indiana State Police) Superintendent (Doug) Carter said yesterday. We will find you.”
We also do not know at this time if the girls were sexually assaulted.
In terms of why the dates of death are different ---
One family listed the date of death according to the day their daughter went missing.
The other family listed to date of death according to the day their daughter was found.
Whether this was a conscious choice or just the way a form was filled out, we have no way of knowing.
The first move LE made was to locate and interview every sex offender within in a certain range. I do not know this range, but I am thinking that their perimeters have increased as time as worn on without his identification.
They are awaiting toxicology results not because they believe that this murder bears any relation to drugs/alcohol, but because it is done in every case, bar none. It is part of the autopsy process. These results take a few weeks to come back.
As of 2/23, we know they have DNA and it is being fast-tracked.
It is, or has been, run through a database to see if a match is in the system. If the person is not in the system already, then there is no way to pair it with a person. They keep the DNA, however, and eventually it may become very useful, indeed.
About WS:
But please, we need to educate ourselves about forum interaction.
First, we need to keep the forum as efficient as possible. People can't keep up because of endless posts.
We take pride at WS in having a forum that is devoid of uninformed, wild speculation, gossip and finger-pointing. Yes, squabbling can, and does, happen. This is understandable. No matter what, we all care about these girls and are frothing at the bit to see this off the streets. When we don't get fresh information, and the days seem to pass without anything new, we get frustrated and it spills over into our discussions. If we are aware of this "phenomenon," we can do our best to cease bickering.
Additionally, forums have been shut down by mods when bickering takes over. We don't want this to happen. The mods don't either, but it's important to them that they keep a respectable forum that is unlike most other places that discuss such topics. When I first joined WS less than a year ago, I was a bit put off by the rules. I have made a mistake or two, and learned that that is OK. If you make a mistake, it is OK. Everyone understands. I still get confused. Please don't leave if your post has been "snipped." It has happened to most. There are so many kind and devoted people here, so just ask if you have a question about a post. Of course, ask the mods and review guidelines.
Especially after visiting a few other places talking about Libby and Abby, I am grateful that we keep a "clean" forum devoid of snarky behavior and baseless postings that may significantly harm innocent people.
I personally believe that our responsibility to the girls and families is to discuss and present the events surrounding their death with intelligence and veneration. Gossip happens when information is carelessly spread -- sort of like the kids' game, telephone. The truth becomes more and more garbled, and no one needs that now.
I know there are many postings. I understand that it's hard to keep up. i joined here last spring for a very busy, active and "hot" case. I spent time filling in the big holes and educating myself before posting. I also read articles in mainstream media in order to learn the big pieces of the case.
Jumping in and asking for full updates clogs the forum and makes it inefficient. This IS moving so fast because we all care.
Let's all try to do our part by spending at least some time educating ourselves rather than relying on the forum for a complete report.
We are special here because we post up to date content, and share breaking news within minutes of release. We then begin sleuthing based on newly released information, with an eye cast back on what we already know to be true.
Oh - last thing before I *try* to get some work done today (How dare my job get in the way of the important stuff?), let's keep a positive attitude about law enforcement, whether local or federal. The press conference yesterday was special because it showed us the human side of men and women who we typically perceive to be "abrupt" and emotionless. Can you imagine how often LE is accused of doing nothing to solve a case? So many of these people give their lifeblood to find justice for those who are silenced by monsters. They see awful, horrible things that surely torments them night and day. Their families get the butt of this, too. Many members of law enforcement have PTSD, anxiety, and problems like the rest of us. They do the "dirty work" many of us cannot do. They all speak about cases that never leave their minds and hearts. I am sure Libby and Abby's murders will be *that case* for many.
Let's remain supportive. It's about these girls. I have a 12 year old niece, live in a small town, and am trying to convince her mother - my sister - that things like this happen in small, sleepy towns. Unfortunately, she doesn't get it; perhaps it's denial. She tells me that I am morbid, but I believe that I am just informed. What happened to Libby and Abby has boosted some thinking about what we would do if attacked. Perhaps it has prompted us to speak to our children. Unfortunately, we have to be honest about strategies in case of attack.
Please, anyone - correct me if I have said anything that is not correct, or doesn't make sense.
New information may have broken while I have written this massive post.
Oh - and I hear people talking about the toll this is taking on them. Please don't let that happen. Take breaks for a day. It's OK. If I were - God forbid - murdered, not only would I be so grateful for all of the people putting in their time and caring, but I wouldn't want anyone getting sick over it. I am prone to nightmares, and have to watch myself, too.
If post is not OK with mods, please let me know so I can learn something new today.
Mainely
Sorry for the length, but I am trying to be as helpful as possible during my work break. Thank goodness I am a fast typist, even though I only use two fingers. I look demonic when I get going. At least my co-workers get a laugh out of it.
Anyhow.....
Firstly, let's get his clothing squared away. The man is not wearing a hat. Per law enforcement, what we see is a hood from his hoodie. In one pic, it is covering his whole head. In the other, it appears to have shifted, leaving us some view of a shock/gathering of hair at the front.
There are no sunglasses. They only give a brief description of his clothing. They have not, as far as I know at this moment, given hair color or facial hair confirmation. I think they are doing this because too much description will plant a specific image in our heads. The perp may have changed by dying hair, shaving, etc; we need to be open to all possibilities.
I do wish we had some speculation about height and weight.
They have not confirmed anything else on his being in terms of possible views of weapons, etc.
This is the link to Liberty's FBI page. Abby's is linked at the bottom where you click on her picture. The page offers many of the "facts," as well as the recording and pics. You can print out an informative, eye-catching poster on this page. The page also contains all tipline information, either by phone or email. Yes, you can email your tips! They are welcoming any and all, and you are guaranteed anonymity if you wish.
https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/liberty-german
Other "solid" information that IMO does not need to be sleuthed:
Both girls were found deceased by volunteers on the same day, same time. Neither girl was alive when found.
LE has neither released the time, nor the way they were murdered. They are doing this for a reason. They need to keep control over information that may help them establish the legitimacy of suspects and tips. There are other reasons for their reticence, but that is the one reason that they have expressed.
In their words: "“Every day we evaluate what we have and what we feel like would be beneficial for folks to know,” Leazenby said. “Obviously, when this is all said and done, we’re going to end up in a court of law with this situation. For us to reveal basically everything we have—and a lot of folks understand this—it would be detrimental to reveal a lot of information.”“We realize that the killer or killers may be watching this, and I echo what (Indiana State Police) Superintendent (Doug) Carter said yesterday. We will find you.”
We also do not know at this time if the girls were sexually assaulted.
In terms of why the dates of death are different ---
One family listed the date of death according to the day their daughter went missing.
The other family listed to date of death according to the day their daughter was found.
Whether this was a conscious choice or just the way a form was filled out, we have no way of knowing.
The first move LE made was to locate and interview every sex offender within in a certain range. I do not know this range, but I am thinking that their perimeters have increased as time as worn on without his identification.
They are awaiting toxicology results not because they believe that this murder bears any relation to drugs/alcohol, but because it is done in every case, bar none. It is part of the autopsy process. These results take a few weeks to come back.
As of 2/23, we know they have DNA and it is being fast-tracked.
It is, or has been, run through a database to see if a match is in the system. If the person is not in the system already, then there is no way to pair it with a person. They keep the DNA, however, and eventually it may become very useful, indeed.
About WS:
But please, we need to educate ourselves about forum interaction.
First, we need to keep the forum as efficient as possible. People can't keep up because of endless posts.
We take pride at WS in having a forum that is devoid of uninformed, wild speculation, gossip and finger-pointing. Yes, squabbling can, and does, happen. This is understandable. No matter what, we all care about these girls and are frothing at the bit to see this off the streets. When we don't get fresh information, and the days seem to pass without anything new, we get frustrated and it spills over into our discussions. If we are aware of this "phenomenon," we can do our best to cease bickering.
Additionally, forums have been shut down by mods when bickering takes over. We don't want this to happen. The mods don't either, but it's important to them that they keep a respectable forum that is unlike most other places that discuss such topics. When I first joined WS less than a year ago, I was a bit put off by the rules. I have made a mistake or two, and learned that that is OK. If you make a mistake, it is OK. Everyone understands. I still get confused. Please don't leave if your post has been "snipped." It has happened to most. There are so many kind and devoted people here, so just ask if you have a question about a post. Of course, ask the mods and review guidelines.
Especially after visiting a few other places talking about Libby and Abby, I am grateful that we keep a "clean" forum devoid of snarky behavior and baseless postings that may significantly harm innocent people.
I personally believe that our responsibility to the girls and families is to discuss and present the events surrounding their death with intelligence and veneration. Gossip happens when information is carelessly spread -- sort of like the kids' game, telephone. The truth becomes more and more garbled, and no one needs that now.
I know there are many postings. I understand that it's hard to keep up. i joined here last spring for a very busy, active and "hot" case. I spent time filling in the big holes and educating myself before posting. I also read articles in mainstream media in order to learn the big pieces of the case.
Jumping in and asking for full updates clogs the forum and makes it inefficient. This IS moving so fast because we all care.
Let's all try to do our part by spending at least some time educating ourselves rather than relying on the forum for a complete report.
We are special here because we post up to date content, and share breaking news within minutes of release. We then begin sleuthing based on newly released information, with an eye cast back on what we already know to be true.
Oh - last thing before I *try* to get some work done today (How dare my job get in the way of the important stuff?), let's keep a positive attitude about law enforcement, whether local or federal. The press conference yesterday was special because it showed us the human side of men and women who we typically perceive to be "abrupt" and emotionless. Can you imagine how often LE is accused of doing nothing to solve a case? So many of these people give their lifeblood to find justice for those who are silenced by monsters. They see awful, horrible things that surely torments them night and day. Their families get the butt of this, too. Many members of law enforcement have PTSD, anxiety, and problems like the rest of us. They do the "dirty work" many of us cannot do. They all speak about cases that never leave their minds and hearts. I am sure Libby and Abby's murders will be *that case* for many.
Let's remain supportive. It's about these girls. I have a 12 year old niece, live in a small town, and am trying to convince her mother - my sister - that things like this happen in small, sleepy towns. Unfortunately, she doesn't get it; perhaps it's denial. She tells me that I am morbid, but I believe that I am just informed. What happened to Libby and Abby has boosted some thinking about what we would do if attacked. Perhaps it has prompted us to speak to our children. Unfortunately, we have to be honest about strategies in case of attack.
Please, anyone - correct me if I have said anything that is not correct, or doesn't make sense.
New information may have broken while I have written this massive post.
Oh - and I hear people talking about the toll this is taking on them. Please don't let that happen. Take breaks for a day. It's OK. If I were - God forbid - murdered, not only would I be so grateful for all of the people putting in their time and caring, but I wouldn't want anyone getting sick over it. I am prone to nightmares, and have to watch myself, too.
If post is not OK with mods, please let me know so I can learn something new today.
Mainely
whiskers
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But there is a difference between relaxed jeans and super wide where they are literally like wind flaps
Gunther Toody
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<modsnip>If you want to try something <modsnip> ...do a victimology assessment.
http://www.technova.gr/technova/index.php/2012-06-21-03-15-38/english/1009-victimology
http://www.technova.gr/technova/index.php/2012-06-21-03-15-38/english/1009-victimology
whiskers
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They do, but it's really hard to find them *that* wide. Like literally fabric flapping in the wind. That's all I'm saying
Steleheart
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Thanks for the new thread Silybilly!!
That boat was full. Listing to one side even.
That boat was full. Listing to one side even.
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thanks for the big update had to work yesterday on an urgent call out
JanetElaine
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:welcome5:
I just wanted to bring your post over here, I feel bad if your first post gets left behind because you posted it right before the thread got closed.
Welcome to WebSleuths.
whiskers
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Because it puts him in a certain age bracket. That's why I started talking about it yesterday. It's the first thing I noticed when I saw his pants and how he holds his legs when walking.
Inthedetails
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Steleheart
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Just bringing this post forward because it is from an official LE site re the actual phone.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Delphi-13-Feb-2017-8&p=13173113#post13173113
Reply I was about to make;
That's the most important source as it's directly from LE - the ISP official site.
Not sure what to make of that and the Grandfather's statements.
MOO
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Delphi-13-Feb-2017-8&p=13173113#post13173113
Reply I was about to make;
That's the most important source as it's directly from LE - the ISP official site.
Not sure what to make of that and the Grandfather's statements.
MOO
Gardenista
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Nancy Grace to Indiana Teen Murder Suspect: You're a Dead Man Walking!!! (VIDEO)
http://www.tmz.com/2017/02/23/nancy-grace-indiana-teens-murdered/
http://www.tmz.com/2017/02/23/nancy-grace-indiana-teens-murdered/
Falling Down
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I would imagine LE are there at the crime scene looking for something before the next weather system rolls through. We're aupposed to get some severe weather in the next couple of days.
Mimi 007
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I just joined and this is my first post. In regard to his blue jeans determining his age- that style of jeans is usually an older generation's choice; however, if he shops the thrift store, that's what he would find so I don't think his dress in this instance determines his age. Second opinion, regarding the dates of death being different. My opinion comes from working for both Dallas newspapers for over 5 years. I worked the obit desk and the family writes the obituary. The funeral home calls it in to the newspaper. In today's world, it's posted on the website by the funeral home after the family writes it. The family is under great stress and isn't focused on dates at this point. They only remember the last day that the person was alive to them. I hope that helps end the debate over the difference in the dates of death and the age of the jeans.
AmyPond
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They do, but it's really hard to find them *that* wide. Like literally fabric flapping in the wind. That's all I'm saying
I think sometimes people buy things to fit the waist and then the legs end up being extra wide. And I bet you can find jeans just like this at Walmart.
But really...it's neither here nor there as I don't think it makes a difference in trying to find this guy. I just don't think the EXACT cut of his jeans is all that relevant. Yes, the way he looks does make him appear a bit older...late 40's is my guess. But over analyzing the jeans and trying to figure out what year they came from...? I don't see the point.
Megster024
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Ok so I've been thinking about LE saying they don't believe the murder to be a chance encounter, but have no evidence yet to an internet tie. So, I'm now wondering if the evidence to make them think this wasn't a chance encounter must have been something left behind by the killer or how they were killed. Rope, ties, maybe the weapon or manner of death. The police seem deeply disturbed by this murder, so I guess I'm thinking it was extremely brutal. Tying them up would be a good way to control 2 girls at the same time.
Jmo jmo jmo
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Jmo jmo jmo
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