IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #13

[jjenny]

lol I am still unconvinced, sorry. Just to be clear, I wasn't the one bringing up the flash. I was responding to another poster who was trying to claim that it would have been even darker out than the picture if it were taken with a flash.

I'm pretty ready to move on, as I am not going to be convinced one way or another from photographs.
And, I think there's a good probability that the statement "watched her walk to the corner" was not verbatim from JR. It came from HT.

so this cannot possibly prove anything to me. But use it for your own reasoning, I am not trying to convince you to agree with me. I just am asking for you to stop trying to convince me...

I don't believe there is any way police is going to use hearsay from HT to put a 4:30 am sighting of LS on the official timeline and map.

 

[elmomom]

I don't believe there is any way police is going to use hearsay from HT to put a 4:30 am sighting of LS on the official timeline and map.

I agree 100%. But LE never told us that he watched her from his window. For all we know, he told them he walked her to the corner!
The only thing we know from LE is that it was claimed she had been seen at 4:30, but who, how and why we do not know from their info.

 

[jjenny]

I agree 100%. But LE never told us that he watched her from his window. For all we know, he told them he walked her to the corner!
The only thing we know from LE is that it was claimed she had been seen at 4:30, but who, how and why we do not know from their info.

I think it's highly unlikely. If he walked her to the corner, why didn't he walk her the whole way? There was a very short distance left.

 

[wisco23]

I think it's highly unlikely. If he walked her to the corner, why didn't he walk her the whole way? There was a very short distance left.

Again, we're all just theorizing of course, but I think walking her to the corner would certainly be a possible course of action. College is the well-lit main street. He could have easily thought he did the gentlemanly thing by walking her that far (or to a point where he could see her turn the corner for that matter). Or even stretching the truth that he saw her turn there (to sound more responsible to HT..

just my $.02

 

[JeannaT]

Re: the question of why no drug charges to bring in a
pOI and press him further on possible involvement in LS disappearance..

IMO there is one reason.. Because there is no body to even run toxicology on to even prove that there was for certain drug use involved in the night's events..

Without That all LE has is a bunch of speculating drug use and/or ppl accusing that there was drug use that night.. Which if either of those things warranted an arrest on drug charges.. Well.. I think it's obvious what a circus type mess the judicial system would be In.. Every pissed off neighbor deciding to call police on a neighbor they dislike and claim their drug users.. Would have tons and tons of innocent ppl and a waste of LE time and money..

So without a body to even prove there was drug use how else would there be grounds for an arrest of anyone on a drug charge?

If they start arresting these kids on alcohol or drug charges, they won't get another WORD about what might have happened to Lauren. She's an adult, as far as drug use is concerned (there's no legal age to do the drugs she's suspected of, so past 18, it's all the same) and she's virtually an adult for alcohol. It's not like she's 12. Any threat of criminal charges for her friends will cause them to circle the wagons of silence even closer than they are now, if that's even possible.

 

[elmomom]

I just read something that made me very sad. It opened my eyes to something I hadn't considered before. Up until now I've pretty much played devil's advocate with some of you, and gone back and forth with myself. I've never understood how anyone could be so convinced one way or another about who did it. There's so little evidence, and what we know is mainly rumor and rehashed stories through friends.
But someone said "Hope dies last". And it hit me, that believing passionately that there is a clear cut guilty party gives us hope that person will be arrested, that will help us make sure she will be found, and this ongoing tragedy will end.
So I am very sad now because I realize that I don't have that hope. Wish, it's a wish, but I have pretty much lost hope. Sad.

 

[jjenny]

Again, we're all just theorizing of course, but I think walking her to the corner would certainly be a possible course of action. College is the well-lit main street. He could have easily thought he did the gentlemanly thing by walking her that far (or to a point where he could see her turn the corner for that matter). Or even stretching the truth that he saw her turn there (to sound more responsible to HT..

just my $.02

Well we can speculate, only all of this speculation is coming out of thin air.
There's been never any suggestion by anyone he walked her to the corner.

 

[mamamia54]

I just read something that made me very sad. It opened my eyes to something I hadn't considered before. Up until now I've pretty much played devil's advocate with some of you, and gone back and forth with myself. I've never understood how anyone could be so convinced one way or another about who did it. There's so little evidence, and what we know is mainly rumor and rehashed stories through friends.
But someone said "Hope dies last". And it hit me, that believing passionately that there is a clear cut guilty party gives us hope that person will be arrested, that will help us make sure she will be found, and this ongoing tragedy will end.
So I am very sad now because I realize that I don't have that hope. Wish, it's a wish, but I have pretty much lost hope. Sad.

Yep, I had to take a few steps back myself honestly.

 

[jjenny]

If they start arresting these kids on alcohol or drug charges, they won't get another WORD about what might have happened to Lauren. She's an adult, as far as drug use is concerned (there's no legal age to do the drugs she's suspected of, so past 18, it's all the same) and she's virtually an adult for alcohol. It's not like she's 12. Any threat of criminal charges for her friends will cause them to circle the wagons of silence even closer than they are now, if that's even possible.

I believe it could be just the opposite. Putting pressure on someone to tell what they know has been a tactic of LE for a really long time.

 

[cluciano63]

I believe it could be just the opposite. Putting pressure on someone to tell what they know has been a tactic of LE for a really long time.

Ugh, I can't help thinking of the bunch down in Satsuma, FL...can't get much more pressure than 15-25 years in state prison...and nothing...but of course this group at IU isn't used to jails and prisons, as far as we know. Could be a different result.

 

[BFan]

are admissable in court IF the parties agree to its admissability. Typically, when LE asks you to submit to one of theirs, they ask that you agree to its admissability in court in writing. So a main tactic for defense counsel, in line with the goal of controlling the investigatory process vis a vis their client is to have the client submit to a polygraph on their own with a private licensed polygraph guy/gal. That way, if it is BAD, they dont tell anyone and it is not admissable anyway. And they dont agree to a LE administered one. If it comes out GOOD, they give the results to the police for whatever they want to use it for.

I was involved in the representation of a divorce client in a custody case who was being investigated for Child molest, and was invited to come in for questioning by the investigator. The defense counsel we hired to shepherd him through that investigation had the guy take a Lie detector test, which he passed. When the investigator asked him if he would be willing to submit to a poly graph, the client responded "Already took one, and I passed." That pretty much closed that avenue to the investigator.

Another way to control information is to insist that the investigator, if he wants to question your client, submit a list of questions or specific topics that he wants to ask questions about. This way, your client has some control because he wont be surprised by any questions and wont be pummelled and good cop/bad copped during a stressful interrogation.

so when Voyles says a statement was provided it could very well be part of something like that where the cops asked him to answer written questions or something and JR responded in writing. (But not under oath, obviously).

Another questions about wrongful death came up and whether a body was necessary. A body is not necessary, but there has to be evidence that a death occurrred. A witness seeing a death occurr, blood, or evidence of injury or bodily harm could lead a civil jury to infer that a death occurred. Here, I havent seen in the public domain any evidence that either death or bodily harm that could lead to death occurred.

Finally, I think Goddess mentioned some woman in Louisville that High wire said he spoke with or something like that. I think the woman in Louisville was some sort of self proclaimed psychic that simply relayed her impressions about the case, not that she has any personal knowlede of what happened or anything.

 

[Kimster]

ANYONE who wants to post as an insider to this case MUST follow the directions to be VERIFIED.

Here's a link to the instructions: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126206"]Professional Posters & Verified Locals / Insiders - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Read the area toward the bottom of the post IN RED to see how to start the process.

If you aren't verified as an insider, your posts claiming to know people involved in this case will be removed.

 

[mamamia54]

I think we need to make a list of everything that we know as fact.

 

[Blythe]

I have a hunch (maybe even a hope) that LE has a fairly good assessment of what likely happened. They just have to make the right chess moves.

 

[webrocket]

Thanks to anybody who gave me real advice. I only posted what I posted elsewhere in the first place because it was a section of a message board that you had to be registered to view, consisting mostly of people whom I know personally, and I certainly didn't think things would get this far. I will definitely be keeping my mouth shut in the future. Thanks to everybody else for adding to the ordeal and doing exactly nothing to help, though. You couldn't possibly know what it's like to be in a situation like this unless you've been there, so I kind of forgive you, but really people, get a life. I'm certainly living mine.

Also, to anybody speaking negatively of JW, he is the nicest, most genuine kid in the world and will be forever and irrevocably damaged by this, no matter what the outcome is. You couldn't know this either, so I'm just going to leave it at that.

I feel your frustration highwire. not everyone here feels the guys are involved and still others who refuse to speculate on things from who might be a drug dealer, involved in human trafficking and so on.

I am sure that everyone directly impacted by this wishes that the whole fateful night had ever happened. sadly, no one has been able to go back in time to change the past.

I can recall a case where WS helped find a missing person. If I recall correctly, the guy's name was Robert Hall from NJ. a local signed on here, suggestions were made and lo and behold she observed what looked like a car antenna protruding from an ice-covered pond. the woman even mentioned WS to the loca press.

most of us are nowhere near Bloomington so there is nothing we can do that is on the ground. some have retraced steps and posted comments on what they observed. that should come as some comfort to the greiving that complete strangers do care about Lauren and for reasons other than offering unsolicited opinions about who is the biggest creep in Bloomington.

 

[mamamia54]

That is a very interesting FB post, but I don't think we can post the actual FB link here.

 

[Kimster]

That is a very interesting FB post, but I don't think we can post the actual FB link here.

You can if it's someone named in the major news media OR someone who is a reporter.

Otherwise, no you can't and can't even say that you can't.

That's a lot of can'ts. :floorlaugh:

But you can't.

 

[Kimster]

This guy has posted that Lauren was in his cab (LE checked it out and it was someone else) He also posted several more things that were out there unbelievable. He's just an attention seeker IMHO. LE knows him.

Yeah, this guy sounds like a rumor monger. We don't like rumors here so let's move away from this guy. That's why we have the rules about FB that we have.

:tyou:

 

[jjenny]

I think we need to make a list of everything that we know as fact.

I am also interested in what we don't know. How come we know nothing about the supposed JR's friend staying with him (if HT is to be believed). When did that friend arrive? How? By plane? By car? When did he leave? Did LE talk to the friend?

 

[bessie]

And just to add to Kimster's post, we also do not copy and paste posts from other websites.